Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

LeverEnd
Legend
Legend
Posts: 9969
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:18 pm
Location: Dirty Leeds

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by LeverEnd » Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:29 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:16 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:58 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:56 pm
Does iFollow work overseas, do we know?
I think so. I think it *only* used to work overseas, that was what it was for (extra cash for clubs from ex-pats where you weren't going to get the coverage). Then got repurposed after Covid (think you could get non Sat 3pms only here before)
Cheers, mate. I guess I can always go through the company VPN anyway, or at least I can try ;)

Don't leave it on by accident for your evening browsing, you rascal.
...

User avatar
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 32273
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:30 pm

:lol:

enrdentw
Promising
Promising
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:05 pm

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by enrdentw » Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:54 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:56 pm
Does iFollow work overseas, do we know?
It sure does, I love it! I live and work in Switzerland, I get to watch every home and away game for £150 a season. This is the 3rd straight season that I have signed up to it. I rarely miss a game. The only games I can't watch are the ones that they show on Sky but then I use one of my friend's spare season ticket match passes/login to watch those games.

On the rare occasion I have managed to fly in and out on the same day to away games in and around London, especially when flights are a good price.

On another (bragging) note, I put £200 on us getting promotion at 20/1 back in mid Jan before the Cheltenham game, I think we were 19th in the table at the time. As you can imagine, I am now watching the games with added enthusiasm.

User avatar
Bruce Rioja
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 38742
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Drifting into the arena of the unwell.

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:58 am

Cheers, enrdentw - that's really good to know.

Hope your bet comes in, obviously. :D
May the bridges I burn light your way

User avatar
The_Gun
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 3147
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by The_Gun » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:22 am

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... on-reborn/

I don’t subscribe to this rag, but apparently they’re reporting we have the fifth highest iFollow subscribers in the entire EFL.

boltonboris
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 13989
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:27 pm

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by boltonboris » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:51 pm

enrdentw wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:54 am
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:56 pm
Does iFollow work overseas, do we know?
It sure does, I love it! I live and work in Switzerland, I get to watch every home and away game for £150 a season. This is the 3rd straight season that I have signed up to it. I rarely miss a game. The only games I can't watch are the ones that they show on Sky but then I use one of my friend's spare season ticket match passes/login to watch those games.

On the rare occasion I have managed to fly in and out on the same day to away games in and around London, especially when flights are a good price.

On another (bragging) note, I put £200 on us getting promotion at 20/1 back in mid Jan before the Cheltenham game, I think we were 19th in the table at the time. As you can imagine, I am now watching the games with added enthusiasm.
Alright Rockefeller
"I've got the ball now. It's a bit worn, but I've got it"

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 28435
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:42 pm

Interesting interview with CEO Neil Hart re iFollow. Says we made half a million from it *last* season - ie when crowds were allowed in. Although he wouldn't impinge on the Saturday 3pm blackout (well, he would personally, but the club wouldn't), he seems to be all for streaming what we can within the constraints of broadcast deals etc.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... t-24364878
We’ve got to be making football accessible. We’ve got to be streaming it as much as possible really.
I’m not fearful from a Bolton point of view that streaming matches would reduce our attendances. Last season, iFollow did fantastic for us, it did half a million pounds - 500k - of gross revenue into the football club. That is unbelievable, it did not impact attendances, it did not impact ticket revenue.
Of the half a million pounds, interestingly, 60% of that came from an international audience outside of the UK.
I'm OK with saying ‘OK, because of broadcast and commercial contracts and the complexities around it, let’s leave the Saturday 3pm games, let’s black them out, that’s OK – but every other fixture, let’s stream it’.

User avatar
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 32273
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:42 pm

He might be extrapolating some innaccuracies. Sure I'm "out of the UK" when I can't get to the game and VPN in...

User avatar
irie Cee Bee
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1078
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:55 am

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by irie Cee Bee » Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:50 pm

I live outside the UK and iFollow is massive for me. Without it, I would have to depend on this forum and BN live to be my eyes at games.

Glad to be able to contribute to the clubs finances.

User avatar
officer_dibble
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 13819
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by officer_dibble » Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:45 am

Yep and we welcome the support as well ICB! Where do you tune in from out of interest? I’d love to know the (VPN excluded) breakdown of our foreign support.

User avatar
irie Cee Bee
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1078
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:55 am

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by irie Cee Bee » Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:19 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:45 am
Yep and we welcome the support as well ICB! Where do you tune in from out of interest? I’d love to know the (VPN excluded) breakdown of our foreign support.
I tune in from Jamaica where I live Dibble. I sign in through the bwfc website using my log-in credential then have the option of an annual, quarterly or match by match subscription. I am currently on a quarterly subscription, so on match days, I go to the website, select the match and I am in. Works like a charm although the commentary most of the time is horrible!

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 28435
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:30 am

Interesting piece from The Athletic (and therefore £, although I think I still have some free passes if you think you might use them) on iFollow – and the future of streaming.

Our CEO Neil Hart is interviewed and (as we know) is very much in favour of more streaming, as are some other clubs like Plymouth, but due to the payment structure – the selling club, whether home or away, doesn't revenue-share with opponents - there is dissent from smaller clubs. No prizes for guessing which Lancastrian club owner weighs in on that side.

https://theathletic.com/3423113/2022/07 ... eaming-tv/

User avatar
The_Gun
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 3147
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by The_Gun » Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:32 pm

Whilst I would like to think that I'm pre-disposed towards fairness, Andy Holt's arguments here seem to be be in essence 'We're a small club and it's not fair that other clubs have more fans'. Unless he is fundamentally opposed to free market capitalism, which I suspect he is not, then I don't think he has a particularly sturdy leg to stand on.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 28435
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:08 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:32 pm
Whilst I would like to think that I'm pre-disposed towards fairness, Andy Holt's arguments here seem to be be in essence 'We're a small club and it's not fair that other clubs have more fans'. Unless he is fundamentally opposed to free market capitalism, which I suspect he is not, then I don't think he has a particularly sturdy leg to stand on.
It's an interesting one, and it's something that has been eroding for decades now. I can wang on for hours about it but in essence, the Football League was set up to share money - gate-sharing revenue, etc.

Remember it was set up in the 1880s, a time of growing unionisation, and against an FA which doggedly insisted in amateurism. Money has been baked into it from the off.

Some clubs got bigger crowds than others, but they shared receipts for each game between themselves, so there was some inequality but also some redistribution - from WWI onwards, home teams gave 20% of their receipts to the away team, plus a 4% levy into a fund redistributed evenly between all League clubs. TV deals, when they came along in 1965, were initially also redistributed evenly.

By then though, the maximum wage had just been abolished, allowing "big clubs" to outbid smaller ones and thus get the best players. All hail the one-club men who never left before that, but we'll never know if that would have happened had they not essentially had no financial reason to move.

Then in the 1980s a new breed of Thatcherite chairmen/owners - Martin Edwards, Irving Scholar and their later followers - started wanting more pie for themselves, threatening to form a Super League if not. Gate-sharing was abolished in 1983, and in 1985 the big clubs threatened to break away until the others acquiesced to the Heathrow Agreement which kept 50% of the TV cash for First Division clubs, with 25% for the Second and 25% to the Third and Fourth Divisions combined. The 4% gate-money levy also dropped to 3%.

Then came the Premier League, specifically designed to keep the money in the top cartel - although interestingly still with some elements of financial redistribution. The best teams get more TV money, and more placement money, but everyone gets something.

So I can sort of see where Holt is coming from, and I assume it will be some sort of compromise in which a percentage of iFollow money goes to the "other" team (the non-seller, whether that's home or away) – there could be any number of redistribution ratios suggested. But Hart gets straight to the realpolitik of it: "Surely we can only put it to a vote and go with the majority?"

User avatar
The_Gun
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 3147
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by The_Gun » Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:41 pm

Holt is arguing that because the Football League was created in a completely different era, and used to have more equitable revenue distribution policies, we should now revert to them for streaming? I suppose then that he would also be in favour of sharing the revenues of his plastics business to other, smaller, firms?

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 28435
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:56 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:41 pm
Holt is arguing that because the Football League was created in a completely different era, and used to have more equitable revenue distribution policies, we should now revert to them for streaming? I suppose then that he would also be in favour of sharing the revenues of his plastics business to other, smaller, firms?
Heh! I don't think Holt is arguing any of that. He seems to be arguing that his matchday revenue is down when iFollow is on - contrary to what his counterparts at Bolton and Plymouth say.

Selfishly I would like all BWFC games to be on iFollow because I can't get to the majority of them. What none of us really know is how much that would affect income. I suspect it would simply divert money from one revenue stream to another, possibly adding more eyeballs – there are definitely games I would watch that I can't attend – but lessening ancillary incomes like pies, pints and club-shop tat.

Personally, while Holt can frequently be annoying, I don't think it's hugely unreasonable to suggest that home teams get a slice of the away teams' iFollow take. And I suspect there's room for compromise.

I also find it most interesting that the sports with the greatest redistribution - actually tailored to make the weakest teams stronger, and stop the strongest teams running away with it - tend to be sports in the U.S., that great (if declining) bastion of free market capitalism. Closed-shop, too, with no relegation or promotion. Some American Dream that is.

User avatar
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 32273
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:03 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:41 pm
Holt is arguing that because the Football League was created in a completely different era, and used to have more equitable revenue distribution policies, we should now revert to them for streaming? I suppose then that he would also be in favour of sharing the revenues of his plastics business to other, smaller, firms?
I have some sympathy, in the wider sense that his Club (like ours) have next to zero chance of winning anything remotely important, without the sort of investment, he's not going to be able to put in (because he's not as rich as City, United and probably us. etc.). Eventually the disparities will come home to roost.

User avatar
The_Gun
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 3147
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by The_Gun » Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:48 pm

I just don't really get why this is different to any of the other discrepancies in revenue caused by some clubs having more fans than others.

When Bolton play away at Accrington, Bolton get to keep the revenues from any of our fans who purchase a stream, likewise when Accrington play away at Bolton, Accrington get to keep the streaming revenue from their fans. Of course Accrington won't get nearly as much overall, because they have fewer fans.

Bolton also get more revenue from fans showing up at our home matches, because we have significantly more fans than Accrington. In turn, Derby will make much more on match days than we will for the same reason. How is the streaming situation different?

User avatar
Mar
Icon
Icon
Posts: 5123
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Bolton

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by Mar » Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:59 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:56 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:41 pm
Holt is arguing that because the Football League was created in a completely different era, and used to have more equitable revenue distribution policies, we should now revert to them for streaming? I suppose then that he would also be in favour of sharing the revenues of his plastics business to other, smaller, firms?
Heh! I don't think Holt is arguing any of that. He seems to be arguing that his matchday revenue is down when iFollow is on - contrary to what his counterparts at Bolton and Plymouth say.

Selfishly I would like all BWFC games to be on iFollow because I can't get to the majority of them. What none of us really know is how much that would affect income. I suspect it would simply divert money from one revenue stream to another, possibly adding more eyeballs – there are definitely games I would watch that I can't attend – but lessening ancillary incomes like pies, pints and club-shop tat.

Personally, while Holt can frequently be annoying, I don't think it's hugely unreasonable to suggest that home teams get a slice of the away teams' iFollow take. And I suspect there's room for compromise.

I also find it most interesting that the sports with the greatest redistribution - actually tailored to make the weakest teams stronger, and stop the strongest teams running away with it - tend to be sports in the U.S., that great (if declining) bastion of free market capitalism. Closed-shop, too, with no relegation or promotion. Some American Dream that is.
I suspect that those complaining about the iFollow service are those with closed ambitions. I'm sure they would change their tune should they end up trending in foreign markets and suddenly get a massive influx of foreign consumers. As it stands, any restriction on the availability of the content limits future growth to their local spot in the market.

Theres nothing to suggest that a few carefully selected foreign signings may end up making a significant impact in a foreign market which was the reasoning behind certain asian players reaching the Premier League at Man Utd for example.

How does a club take full advantage of the options in front of them?

I'm sure the answer to that isn't the restriction of access.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 28435
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Would you get an iFollow season ticket?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:12 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:48 pm
I just don't really get why this is different to any of the other discrepancies in revenue caused by some clubs having more fans than others.

When Bolton play away at Accrington, Bolton get to keep the revenues from any of our fans who purchase a stream, likewise when Accrington play away at Bolton, Accrington get to keep the streaming revenue from their fans. Of course Accrington won't get nearly as much overall, because they have fewer fans.

Bolton also get more revenue from fans showing up at our home matches, because we have significantly more fans than Accrington. In turn, Derby will make much more on match days than we will for the same reason. How is the streaming situation different?
The streaming situation is different because currently, whichever club sells the iFollow gets the money. Whereas when Bolton play at Accy, Accy keep the gate money – Bolton might sell the tickets (physically or virtually), but they return the revenue to Accy.

So in the annual Big Club v Small Club fixtures, each side "wins" once with ticket sales, but with iFollow the big club "wins" both times.

Again, not saying Holt is right, and I'm certainly not saying he isn't a publicity-seeking Humility Engine. But there is a difference between the revenue models of match tickets and iFollow sales. I can understand why a "small club" man might oppose that disparity.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 82 guests