Pragmatism vs Perseverance

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How do you want to see the manager respond to iffy results?

Pragmatism
7
37%
Perseverance
12
63%
 
Total votes: 19

GhostoftheBok
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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:15 pm

For what it is worth, I still think Evatt will do enough to keep his job this year.

officer_dibble
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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:20 pm

I’m not seeing it. Gone by the end of next month is my prediction.

GhostoftheBok
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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:30 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:20 pm
I’m not seeing it. Gone by the end of next month is my prediction.
Could well be. Depends entirely on the players. If they don't buy into it he'll be gone.

irie Cee Bee
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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by irie Cee Bee » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:46 pm

He is on a steep learning curve. League 2 is a big step up from non league. We all want him to do well. Is he a good student or a rose tinted positive thinking preacher? He will be given time to learn but will he.

Worthy4England
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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:54 pm

No point talking trequaristas and conceding two a game. It's bollocks.

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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by LeverEnd » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:49 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:20 pm
I’m not seeing it. Gone by the end of next month is my prediction.
I think they'll desperately cling to.him no.matter what. To a point obviously, but no way this side of Christmas.
We've signed some shit but a reasonable team can be made from what we've got. He might need to set aside his lofty ideals for a bit and do what it takes to get some points. Peter Atherton is an old head, they should be able to work something out.
If he's dogmatic and keeps losing then my patience will run out.
And I also think this Phoenix character should be sticking his neck out for him a bit and shouldering some of the responsibility.
...

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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by CrazyHorse » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:54 pm

Sack the useless prick. Life's too short to waste on giving yet another manager time to piss about and still get nowhere.

We could've just thrown a condom soiled toilet brush vaguely near the touchline and we'd literally be in the exact same position as this dick right now. Could've maybe even done better; who knows?
Businesswoman of the year.

LeverEnd
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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by LeverEnd » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:05 pm

CrazyHorse wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:54 pm
Sack the useless prick. Life's too short to waste on giving yet another manager time to piss about and still get nowhere.

We could've just thrown a condom soiled toilet brush vaguely near the touchline and we'd literally be in the exact same position as this dick right now. Could've maybe even done better; who knows?
:grin:
...

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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:11 pm

We're in crisis. Make no mistake.

I think it's clear now we're set up to play a style of football and a system we're collectively not good enough to execute. For me, we just need to go back to basics and pick a team we think we can rely on. I'm not arguing for pragmatism as much as basic competence.

It matters less what formation we play, 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, whatever, but I think we do have to play with a back four. With Tutte, Crawford, Darcy, White, Isgrove, Delfouneso and Doyle to choose from, we should be able to put together a strong forward line pretty easily. The defence is currently a shambles, obviously, however there's no reason to think Jones isn't a steady, if somewhat staid, full-back. The rest of the back four I think I'd just select on the basis of whichever combination offers us the most solidity. Don't ask the centre-backs to push forward in possession, just keep it simple and focus on shape and structure. Have a midfielder drop deep to collect from the defence and build from there.

I suppose we could look at Evatt changing the formation in one of two ways. On the one hand it's very concerning because it's clearly the formation we set out to play and we signed a squad of players to suit it. On the other hand though, it's a good thing he recognised it wasn't working and changed it so quickly.

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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:08 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:49 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:20 pm
I’m not seeing it. Gone by the end of next month is my prediction.
I think they'll desperately cling to.him no.matter what. To a point obviously, but no way this side of Christmas.
We've signed some shit but a reasonable team can be made from what we've got. He might need to set aside his lofty ideals for a bit and do what it takes to get some points. Peter Atherton is an old head, they should be able to work something out.
If he's dogmatic and keeps losing then my patience will run out.
And I also think this Phoenix character should be sticking his neck out for him a bit and shouldering some of the responsibility.
We are losing week in week out. Literally no points coming in. I think this fool loses at Harrogate, home to grimsby and Oldham and you have to admit he isn’t a football manager capable of getting results at this level. He has to go. We cannot sustain a non-league team.

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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:17 pm

We’ve not even got the fans in the ground giving stick, booing - evatt/Phoenix signed every single player - there are no excuses for this! He could be the first manager we’ve ever had potted without a game in front of fans. It’s woeful.

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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:25 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:30 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:20 pm
I’m not seeing it. Gone by the end of next month is my prediction.
Could well be. Depends entirely on the players. If they don't buy into it he'll be gone.
No. He's assembled a squad , it depends on his ability to get those players to buy into it.

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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by LeverEnd » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:56 am

officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:17 pm
We’ve not even got the fans in the ground giving stick, booing - evatt/Phoenix signed every single player - there are no excuses for this! He could be the first manager we’ve ever had potted without a game in front of fans. It’s woeful.
Just him or Phoenix too?
...

officer_dibble
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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by officer_dibble » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:32 am

If we have to abandon the Evatt project I suspect the type of manager we need won’t work for Phoenix.

He’s just as culpable in any case. Look at the signings:
Goalkeeper- good shot stopper but as predicted decision making looks iffy and I noticed several times he was arguing with defenders yesterday. He hasn’t got command of his box.

Defenders - Santos is shocking. All the physical attributes but he is lazy and mentally weak. For such a big lad he isn’t the presence he should be.
Greenidge - early days but again has physical attributes but not convinced he is a good enough footballer for this level.
Baptiste - juries out as to whether he can cut it physically anymore.
Taft - suspect he would be OK with a decent manager at this level.
Delaney - as Taft. The fact he’s played competently at league one makes it bizzare he is overlooked - biggest problem is he’s left sided as per Taft, as I’d be tempted to pick them as a pair otherwise.
Wing backs
Jones - fine right back for this level.
Gordon- experiment. Has the physical attributes and learning his trade. Actually beat a man forwards yesterday then reverted to backwards/crossing straight into the challenge again.
Mascall- fact he hasn’t made an appearance doesn’t look good.
Hickman - looks like a good find.
Midfielders
Comley - shite. Turns into trouble and gives the ball away constantly. Can win a tackle.
Tutte- Not seen enough of him yet.
White- looks like a non-league player who might make it. Awful lot of responsibility on him.
Sarcevic - obviously a big miss despite not playing well yet. Clear pedigree at this level.
Forwards -
Doyle- clear pedigree - have we signed players to supply him for goals?
Delf - decent signing.
Miller - looked good briefly. Was he pushed to play when not fit?

Not judging the two who came on yesterday. The amount of touches the forward tried to take in the box when played in looked ominous though. He also dropped deep a lot - not sure he’s the target man type I think we need.

Biggest thing missing for me is leadership throughout the spine. Defence needs someone to come in and take charge. I’m not sure that’s been thought about when recruiting - I think Phoenix has just looked at physical stats.

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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by officer_dibble » Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:43 pm

All I can see at the moment is Sammy Lee. Over promoted and hopelessly out of his depth. OppositionManagers pitching up every week saying how it will “come good” whilst hoping the car crash continued as it’s one less relegation spot to worry about.

Bertie Wooster
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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:59 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:43 pm
All I can see at the moment is Sammy Lee. Over promoted and hopelessly out of his depth. OppositionManagers pitching up every week saying how it will “come good” whilst hoping the car crash continued as it’s one less relegation spot to worry about.
I disagree with this, Evatt is decent and will get this right (although I'm beginning to doubt whether it will be this season) - he's driven, passionate & motivated its just a pity the players aren't, I think that he's been badly let down by Phoenix with some of these transfers, I wonder if Evatt has had a say in ALL of these transfers ?

I'm sure that Phoenix is director of football, but has zero experience of football - I think that he's actually a lower league football agent who's only experience is at Macclesfield - I really do wonder why FV have put their faith in Phoenix with such little experience.

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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:44 pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:59 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:43 pm
All I can see at the moment is Sammy Lee. Over promoted and hopelessly out of his depth. OppositionManagers pitching up every week saying how it will “come good” whilst hoping the car crash continued as it’s one less relegation spot to worry about.
I disagree with this, Evatt is decent and will get this right (although I'm beginning to doubt whether it will be this season) - he's driven, passionate & motivated its just a pity the players aren't, I think that he's been badly let down by Phoenix with some of these transfers, I wonder if Evatt has had a say in ALL of these transfers ?

I'm sure that Phoenix is director of football, but has zero experience of football - I think that he's actually a lower league football agent who's only experience is at Macclesfield - I really do wonder why FV have put their faith in Phoenix with such little experience.
I’m not buying this. Phoenix brought Evatt in - he was his pick. They spent weeks, whilst Evatt was at Barrow in lockdown identifying players together. Hill could legitimately say he wasn’t happy with Phoenix’s appointment and role. But Evatt came primarily because he and Phoenix shared a vision. According to Evatt‘s own words he got the players he wanted this summer. Fact is he’s inexperienced and green and potentially naive and hasn’t realised that buying with a small budget and throwing loads together at this level almost always will leave you quite limited.

The failings are so basic that I do not think you can even criticise recruitment primarily, if we were doing basic things right. Like being organised and compact and playing with tempo and looking like we had a coherent shape with some sense as to what we are doing but we lose out to fine margins then sure. Look at quality in squad. But right now we aren’t close and much of if could easily be fixed on the training ground.

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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:00 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:25 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:30 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:20 pm
I’m not seeing it. Gone by the end of next month is my prediction.
Could well be. Depends entirely on the players. If they don't buy into it he'll be gone.
No. He's assembled a squad , it depends on his ability to get those players to buy into it.
Absolutely. This is where we find out if he is any good at his job.

Bertie Wooster
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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:02 pm

So BWFCI /does the buck & accountability stop with Evatt ?, are you saying that Evatt is comfortable with all of our signings and had an input with them all ?

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Re: Pragmatism vs Perseverance

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:25 pm

Timely reminder from Pep and the boys that a pitch has two ends to it... :-)

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