Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by sonicthewhite » Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:52 pm

I see that we have 33yr old Joel Lynch on trial with us
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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:42 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:49 pm
White's return to Blackburn confirmed by the club.
I find White, quite a strange one. Evatt knew exactly what was in the tin, as he played for Barrow only last season and was by all accounts part of the catalyst behind their promotion. For him to fall so far out of favour (not even a "bencher") all seems a bit weird...

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:09 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:42 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:49 pm
White's return to Blackburn confirmed by the club.
I find White, quite a strange one. Evatt knew exactly what was in the tin, as he played for Barrow only last season and was by all accounts part of the catalyst behind their promotion. For him to fall so far out of favour (not even a "bencher") all seems a bit weird...
Did Evatt have a clue what was needed to do well in league 2? I'd say the evidence would suggest no he did not. Players like White are good technical players but for someone like that to work you need some minders in there with him and a runner. We had White, Crawford, Sarce all of a similar mould at the start and only really Comley who you'd say did the dirty work - but he wasn't really able to fit into the possession based stuff early doors. So it didn't work.

I'd say Evatt is at least learning now as we seem to be signing more physically capable players to play a higher tempo style that isn't about keeping the ball for long periods.

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Prufrock » Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:10 pm

I suspect he was signed because we were basically about to have a whole new squad and Evatt wanted someone who knew the "system" and how he wanted to play (not the first manager to bring in a familiar face) and even if he had wanted to we were barred from signing any Barrow players directly.

He hasn't made the step up, the system has changed anyway, and we have limits on squad numbers and who we can get rid of and so he made sense to go.
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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Prufrock » Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:11 pm

In other vaguely interesting news I'm sure I read quotes from Evatt recently talking about how at centre back we have Santos, Baptiste, Greenidge and Delaney. Looks like he doesn't see Brockers as a CB (at least in a 2).
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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:14 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:10 pm
I suspect he was signed because we were basically about to have a whole new squad and Evatt wanted someone who knew the "system" and how he wanted to play (not the first manager to bring in a familiar face) and even if he had wanted to we were barred from signing any Barrow players directly.

He hasn't made the step up, the system has changed anyway, and we have limits on squad numbers and who we can get rid of and so he made sense to go.
Oh yeah - think it made sense in the end...Bit like Ali. Clearly not adapting to what Evatt was trying to do, combined with not hitting the better level of last year...

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by LeverEnd » Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:02 pm

sonicthewhite wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:52 pm
I see that we have 33yr old Joel Lynch on trial with us
Hasn't played since march but has been training with Southend.
...

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:58 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:02 pm
sonicthewhite wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:52 pm
I see that we have 33yr old Joel Lynch on trial with us
Hasn't played since march but has been training with Southend.
Left-sider Lynch would also fit the pattern of many recent signings: experienced up the divisions.

The signings in July and August were pretty much half-and-half between those with and without League experience. For every Gethin we signed a Jak, for every Gilks a Crellin, for every Baptiste a Greenidge. I don't think that plan has been abandoned, exactly - Evatt recently said "For me there should be three key players for every position, that is a starter, a back-up and a development player” and we can hardly expect 22 experienced players - but it seems the focus has somewhat shifted.

I think this might have happened back in early September, in the last couple of days before the season started; a couple of chastening defeats to League opponents may have tipped off Evatt that maybe these risky Moneyballers weren't all going to work, and by then I suspect he also knew Phoenix was more mouth than trousers.

So two days before the curtain came up he signed Andy Tutte (259 League appearances) and then Shaun Miller (375), later adding Gnahoua (42) and Isgrove (96) and then, in January, Declan John (68), Kieran Lee (327), MJ Williams (95) and Marcus Maddison (227) - Lynch has 387 League appearances. It's also worth noting that Isgrove, John, Lee, Williams, Maddison and Lynch are more experienced in higher divisions than in League Two, and indeed for many of them we're their first fourth-tier club – so somebody's doing a good job of selling an idea.

That's not to say we haven't still taken risks on unproven promise - Kioso hadn't played a league game before arriving here, while Afolayan, Elbouzedi and Jackson are still inexperienced. But the major factor since September has been improving the first team, not gambling.

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:13 pm

Wonder what the preferred XI is now? Particularly given the restriction on loanees and is having too many for one match day squad. Would imagine that it’s probably one of Jackson or John in the team and squad moving forward but I think Jackson’s looked reasonable, just needs to improve his awareness I think. Will we want all of Zac, Maddison and Afolayan in the squad? Not sure if the latter is centre forward or winger. Jensen straight in to start?

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by The_Gun » Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:54 pm

The Jackson and Elbouzedi loans were perhaps done before we were aware we could bring in the likes of Maddison. I think Jackson's done well, but if John is the starter then there's not a huge need for him to be taking up a place in the match day squad. Likewise Elbouzedi looks like he might struggle to get a sniff now he's presumably behind Arthur, Delf, Isgrove, and Maddison.

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:40 pm

I think Elbou...Zac has more to give. Was lightning on the break on Saturday and he was on the pitch 15-20 mins and should have scored twice (or once and set Arthur up). I wouldn’t write him off yet.

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:34 pm

Was thinking about Saturday's XI. (I say Saturday's as I think we may tweak - but not wholesale change - per opponent.)

There's now competition in most positions but if we went with this reasonable 4-3-3 line-up:

Gilkes; Jones, Baptiste, Santos, John; Williams, Tutte, Lee; Maddison, Doyle, Delf

...then that's knocking on 2,750 league matches of experience out there. It would also leave us with a bench of something like

Arthur, Afolayan, Elbo, Thomason, Delaney, Brockbank, Jensen

...which offers pace and passing.

(I agree that Elbo has more to come and maybe sub shows are the best way to see it - and for the record, Dapo Afolayan appears to be a striker or forward but has played wide too.)

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by sonicthewhite » Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:39 pm

I think Arthur deserves to start ahead of Delf but pretty much agree with that line-up.
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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:59 pm

Yep Arthur’s got to start. Thought Isgrove was pretty good v Orient as well but I’m less averse to dropping him, particularly away from home.

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:02 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:34 pm
Was thinking about Saturday's XI. (I say Saturday's as I think we may tweak - but not wholesale change - per opponent.)

There's now competition in most positions but if we went with this reasonable 4-3-3 line-up:

Gilkes; Jones, Baptiste, Santos, John; Williams, Tutte, Lee; Maddison, Doyle, Delf

...then that's knocking on 2,750 league matches of experience out there. It would also leave us with a bench of something like

Arthur, Afolayan, Elbo, Thomason, Delaney, Brockbank, Jensen

...which offers pace and passing.

(I agree that Elbo has more to come and maybe sub shows are the best way to see it - and for the record, Dapo Afolayan appears to be a striker or forward but has played wide too.)
I preferred the setup on Saturday.

Gilks, Jones, Baptiste, Santos, John, Lee, Williams, Delf, Maddison, Gnahoua, Doyle

Sort of a 4-2-3-1 with one of Maddison or Delf behind Doyle. Two wide players. A 4-2-3-1/4-4-2 hybrid. I honestly think that's the way to go - we can stuff midfield with 3 and play 4-3-3 but I felt our most natural attacking shape came out Saturday where we had width but also got numbers into the box.

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:05 pm

Arthur in front of Delf for me too, at the minute.

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:44 pm

Oh I agree Arthur would be hard done to if dropped. I also forgot Isgrove as a bench option... TBH i was just looking at the available experience.

Why I would worry about the 4-2-3-1 as opposed to 4-3-3 is that we won’t get defensive effort from Maddison. Add two other attacking midfielders and your midfield gets overrun in Coyle style. - perhaps especially with Arthur as opposed to the diligent Delf. Yes it worked v Orient and may do so again in certain future games but I will be pleasantly amazed if Salford at home offer so little opposition.

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:12 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:44 pm
Oh I agree Arthur would be hard done to if dropped. I also forgot Isgrove as a bench option... TBH i was just looking at the available experience.

Why I would worry about the 4-2-3-1 as opposed to 4-3-3 is that we won’t get defensive effort from Maddison. Add two other attacking midfielders and your midfield gets overrun in Coyle style. - perhaps especially with Arthur as opposed to the diligent Delf. Yes it worked v Orient and may do so again in certain future games but I will be pleasantly amazed if Salford at home offer so little opposition.
Yeah it’s a possibility and we need to see more of the variants to see how we do. But personally think your midfield 3 is too similar.

I think we should be more expansive. Give it a go.

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by TonyDomingos » Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:20 pm

FFS. A whole new set of non entities whose names I now have to try to remember.
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Às armas, às armas!
Pela Pátria lutar!
Contra os canhões marchar, marchar!

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Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:43 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:12 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:44 pm
Why I would worry about the 4-2-3-1 as opposed to 4-3-3 is that we won’t get defensive effort from Maddison. Add two other attacking midfielders and your midfield gets overrun in Coyle style. - perhaps especially with Arthur as opposed to the diligent Delf. Yes it worked v Orient and may do so again in certain future games but I will be pleasantly amazed if Salford at home offer so little opposition.
Yeah it’s a possibility and we need to see more of the variants to see how we do. But personally think your midfield 3 is too similar.

I think we should be more expansive. Give it a go.
I suspect a front three of Doyle, Maddison and Arthur/Fonz is plenty expansive enough. What we don’t want is four blokes up front watching our midfield overrun. That’s what started this downward slide in the first place.

On Tutte/Lee/Williams - I can understand why they seem similar on the surface because they’ve all played that defensive anchor role. However, Kieran Lee didn’t get his reputation for goalscoring bu standing on the halfway line, while Tutte was primarily regarded as an attacking midfielder before he came to us. I’d love to see his usual progressive passing further up the field - imagine him punching alley-balls through to Maddison and Arthur or for that matter Doyle in a danger area. And we can also rely on him to dig backend have positional sense.

Anyway it’s all up in the air and it’s nice to have options. And as I say a 4231 will have its place and we might see tweaks per opposition or during games. Here’s hoping we can start asking the opposition a lot more questions.

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