When do we make a call on Evatt?

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How much longer should Evatt get?

Up to 3 games.
4
13%
Maybe another half dozen.
5
16%
He'll see the season out if we're not in relegation zone
7
23%
He'll go when we are in relegation zone
1
3%
He'll be here next season. That's the plan
14
45%
 
Total votes: 31

Worthy4England
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When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:17 pm

We've been pretty patient (for us), no one really called for a pre Christmas public execution. Folks say we need "time". So what does "time" constitute before we say there isn't a plan that's unfolding here, just a car crash.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Athertonian » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:51 pm

As I have stated before, Evatt has the makings of being a damn good manager. His idea of play would suit a much higher league side but not a bottom one. Those players we have are no where good enough to play the way he would like.

Again, I'm not for changing management every few months but I do feel Evatt isn't suitable for a division 2 Bolton.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by LeverEnd » Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:23 pm

See the season out and assess at the end. If it continues to be poor I wouldn't want to see him start the next knowing he's just a few games from the boot. If he shows some improvement (by which I mean promotion form) in the latter part then back him for next season.
I really don't rate him though, too wedded to his ideals. Unless you can really spend and recruit quality players to match those ideals you have to mix it up a bit.
Whenever he seems to be learning and adapting he then finds some new way to feck it up.
...

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:39 pm

I was torn between 2 options. Provided we're not in the relegation zone and safe from being sucked into it, then I think we should stick with him and see where we are in October.

However, if we fail to win any of the next half dozen and only pick up a point or two, then I think FV should pull the trigger. Even if we weren't in the bottom 2 by then it wouldn't be long before we were.
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:47 pm

6 games for me. We've had sporadic odd wins, bookending "a run" where we beat some teams mainly in the relegation zone or slightly above. It feels more like "not safe from relegation" than "likely to go on a run" at the moment.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:55 pm

I need evidence, you can’t just keep a manager who has no history of success and shows no sign of getting it right or even improving your lot.

I’m not sure what the point of keeping him till the end of the season is, if you then change. FV have the right to do what they want.

Right now I fear that I will simply give up if it continues like this. And funnily enough I worry many will do the same - the habit has been broken by lockdown and what we’ve had to watch in league two on our computers has been nothing short of shocking.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:18 pm

^^ Without defending nor attacking particular managers circumstances, we've generally been watching "shocking" for 10 years.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:22 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:55 pm

Right now I fear that I will simply give up if it continues like this. And funnily enough I worry many will do the same
It could go either way. Football attendances soared after WW2 as folk were just glad to be able to see live professional footy again. In our case though it's a worry that what many have seen on iFollow is enough to put them off for good. It worries me when I hear long term supporters like you are thinking of jacking it :cry:
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:26 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:55 pm
Right now I fear that I will simply give up if it continues like this. And funnily enough I worry many will do the same - the habit has been broken by lockdown and what we’ve had to watch in league two on our computers has been nothing short of shocking.
Interesting thought on habit-breaking. I've written before that usually, over the last half-century, whenever we've dropped a division our home attendances have held up reasonably well *for the first season* then dropped by a slice if we stayed down, even if that season was relatively successful – Freedman's 7th place in 2013, Todd's PO Final loss in 1999, Bill Riddings' third place (when two went up) in 1965.

However, these are uncharted waters, not just because of the pandemic (which, some could argue, will increase attendance desire through inaccessibility/rarity) but because we've never ben relegated twice on the bounce before. Worth noting that the ST sales, described as 14k, were presumably higher than last season's *best* home attendance of 14,003, let alone the average of 11k... but there seems little chance of repeating that figure next season (assuming it's D4), given the uncertainties over Evatt, COVID and, it has to be said, FV.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:34 pm

I'm normally one for patience, particularly when a squad has been assembled in the way ours has. That said, there has been little sign of us playing to any of the strengths we have. A good manager knows they have to be pragmatic at times. Playing a certain way and sticking to it is only of use when it gets at least moderate results. We're in the piss poor results area and as such pragmatism and getting results any which way we can should be obvious. If there is no consistent improvement then he's gone in 6 for me. I suspect we'll limp to the end and be back where we are in now in October.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:49 pm

As much as Evatt is now being seriously (and deservedly) questioned by the fans, and many are having serious doubts about him - I do think eventually he will make it somewhere, I'm just not sure where & when.

We are being run like a non league, amateur team behind the scenes, and that's the fault of FV (I will be ever grateful to them for taking the club on) - however, they have basically handed everything over to a very inexperienced non league manager - Evatt, Atherton & Duckmanton (who's basically just an analyst) that's it, do we have performance & fitness coaches ? what's Atherton's credentials on the coaching front ?, Barrow is that it ?

There doesn't really appear to be a plan in place on or off the pitch - there is so much inexperience throughout the club and to me a lot of fingers in the ears, head in the sand, crossing if fingers going on just hoping that Evatt somehow gets it right, so its no real surprise that we are struggling. I've said it before why all these lower league loans ? why are we not planning for next season and giving our own players Darcy, Regan Riley etc. a few games instead of making other clubs players better - I just can't understand the strategy it just looks so scatter gun from top to bottom.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Athertonian » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:26 pm

As I stated, Evatt will become a very good manager but not with a league 2 side. His ideas are ok if you have the players good enough to adapt.
We go to Mansfield Tuesday, they appointed a manager with plenty lower league experience, they are now pushing for a promotion spot. Evatt could be returning where he came from and as a Bolton fan I don't want that to happen. It is typical of Bolton to go there Tue night and get a result, getting hammered should send a strong message to the club owners that they made a big mistake hiring someone without EFL experience and that it needs urgent attention.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:37 pm

Athers I'm not disagreeing with you but FV haven't helped, we started the season with Tobias Phoenix as DoR overseeing signings & a so called Moneyball approach, a few months later that book is ripped up & lets start all over again - I'm not sure that the owners made a mistake with Evatt, he's a bloody good salesman & he must interview really well, after all of his barrowcelona stuff, promotion etc. it would have been hard not to appoint him - I was certainly bought into him 100%.

I just think there is so much naivety at the club at board level, which isn't helping in regards to coaching, scouting, academy & everything else football related behind the scenes.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by DJBlu » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:08 pm

Are we allowed to include mitigating circumstances or are we a fully financial stable club not in an embargo any more?

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:10 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:18 pm
^^ Without defending nor attacking particular managers circumstances, we've generally been watching "shocking" for 10 years.
Oh absolutely, the slide down the leagues has been horrible alongside the problems around ownership. We are one of those fallen ‘giants’ we used to look at with mock sympathy. Now it’s us.

I guess I would argue that the last three seasons have been particularly and spectacularly disastrous and it’s hard to take. In isolating 13th in the championship is bloody champions league winning compared to what we are suffering now. Of course the seasons were and are seen in the context of decline (apart from Parky’s first couple) but I guess by comparison we had it good as a mid table championship side even if at the time there were howls of dissent and upset.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:13 pm

DJBlu wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:08 pm
Are we allowed to include mitigating circumstances or are we a fully financial stable club not in an embargo any more?
That's a good point DJ, however I'm not sure many League 2 clubs pay transfer fee's so it shouldn't (the embargo) really make that much of a difference, but if you think that FV will give Evatt a £1M or so next season to sign 2 or 3 much better players to get us up then yes it may well be ?

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:16 pm

DJBlu wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:08 pm
Are we allowed to include mitigating circumstances or are we a fully financial stable club not in an embargo any more?
I don’t think the embargo or financial situation are in league two mitigations I’m afraid. We are not failing to compete financially with this league even if we have those restrictions in place. I can’t imagine we’d have a significantly different budget were restrictions not in place given league two has the 60% turnover cap anyway.

I think the need to recruit a lot of players over the summer was mitigation to some extent. But given what we recruited and the fact many gave records at this level, we should be, undoubtedly performing far better by now than we are. I’ve seen a lot of Bolton managers I’ve never seen one do well who signs a load of players, claims they aren’t any good and need more then signs more and they look as hapless as the lot we had before. And I fear that’s exactly where we are. Taft sort of goes to show how mismanaged we are. We are unable to get a tune out of the players. But they have in many cases done well elsewhere. Either Evatt is a really bad judge or a really bad manager or possibly both.

The idea that Crawford, Darcy, Doyle, Delfouneso, Santos and Sarcevic aren’t a group of players right at the top end of ability for this league IMO is for the birds. Add in Kioso to that list too. Arguably Jones too. They haven’t performed like you’d expect and I think the we should be finding out why, not just recruiting more and more players to come in and do nothing useful....

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by The_Gun » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:08 pm

Give him at least half a dozen games after the transfer window closes, I reckon. We now have a pretty decent squad for this level, and with further additions in the next week I don’t think playing personnel can be an excuse for IE.

I still retain some faith in Evatt, although I also think he’s doing plenty wrong. The back room situation does seem like it could be a legitimate mitigating factor, and really seems like it needs rectifying immediately. How do we expect to be competing for promotion if we’re operating with a skeleton staff?

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:10 pm

DJBlu wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:08 pm
Are we allowed to include mitigating circumstances or are we a fully financial stable club not in an embargo any more?
Are we less financially stable than many L2 teams right now? Which L2 clubs do you reckon had a much better transfer window than us because they weren't in an imposed embargo?

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:20 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:10 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:18 pm
^^ Without defending nor attacking particular managers circumstances, we've generally been watching "shocking" for 10 years.
Oh absolutely, the slide down the leagues has been horrible alongside the problems around ownership. We are one of those fallen ‘giants’ we used to look at with mock sympathy. Now it’s us.

I guess I would argue that the last three seasons have been particularly and spectacularly disastrous and it’s hard to take. In isolating 13th in the championship is bloody champions league winning compared to what we are suffering now. Of course the seasons were and are seen in the context of decline (apart from Parky’s first couple) but I guess by comparison we had it good as a mid table championship side even if at the time there were howls of dissent and upset.
We didn't finish 13th in the Champo, but I get your point.

In six of the last seven seasons we've lost more games than the previous term.
In six of the last seven seasons we've gained fewer points than the previous term.
In six of the last seven seasons we've scored fewer goals than the previous term.
In seven of the last eight seasons we've finished lower down the league ladder than the previous term – and that will unavoidably happen again this season.

It's no wonder we're not exactly chirpy. This is a historically, (club) record-breakingly bad decade-long decline. Just the last half-decade alone (before this season) we've suffered various campaigns breaking various all-time club records: Fewest league wins, fewest wins per game, most losses, lowest goals scored per game, worst goal difference and worst goal difference per game. And three relegations.

So while I see that things are fairly cack, I haven't minded this season half as much as the very recent past. And looking at the sweep of history, would I avoid that bad decade by obliterating the previous two and a half – somehow stop Robbie Savage scoring at Wrexham and settle for a quiet, dull eternity in the bottom division? Nah. It feels bad now because it's been so good, and I wouldn't swap that for the world. What keeps me watching - what keeps any fan watching – is the hope and belief that good days might come (again). If you've lost that feeling, then I'm genuinely sorry for you - the door's always open if you want to come back. Room enough in the boat for all sorts.

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