When do we make a call on Evatt?

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How much longer should Evatt get?

Up to 3 games.
4
13%
Maybe another half dozen.
4
13%
He'll see the season out if we're not in relegation zone
7
23%
He'll go when we are in relegation zone
1
3%
He'll be here next season. That's the plan
15
48%
 
Total votes: 31

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Branagan » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:23 am

For me ripping it up and starting again is not the way now. As long as we aren't in danger of going down, I'd give him another season and maybe even beyond. And even if we are in danger of going down, I don't know who out there would be a safe rescuer at this level.

We're not just trying to build a strong 11 here, we're building a whole new identity, a whole new club. That's going to take a LOT of time and it can't be rushed. Two, three even four transfer windows is nothing when that's the task.

Look at Utd, who are finally clicking after what looked like a bit of a lost cause for OGS at times. Ok, I shouldn't have mentioned them.

This is going to take years. And every time we change manager we are effectively starting the process again.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:01 pm

Always interesting to see how the voting is going.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:08 pm

I don't buy this identity thing...

You assemble a squad
You spend time getting the squad to work as a unit to win games
Each window you you look to improve upon individuals in the squad, or cover injuries

In the background you can 'change identity' or whatever else you want. Whether that's buying/recruiting different types/ages of players, restructuring backroom staff or the academy/kids teams or anything else. This stuff doesn't affect your matchday squad. You have a set number of players and you prepare them (training/tactics/formations etc etc) to win a single game.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:12 pm

Now 19th in the table, four places above sinking into non-league football. Just let that sink in.
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Bertie Wooster » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:57 am

Evatt is a bull shitter end of - he back tracks on almost everything he says.

Before the season, definitely promotion - now the fans are expecting to much, long term plan, losing is engrained in the club (although we have a complete new squad who have not been involved in the past 8-9 years), Barrowcelona, style of play, fittest team, press the opposition, 3-4-1-2 wing backs style of play (which he has changed already), exciting, entertaining football, train like Real Madrid blah blah blah - we have rarely seen any evidence of any of it.

Then we had that the transfer window & the first 10 days of it will make or brake our season - what has happened a couple of lower league loan signings & Lee (already injured), he spouted about 2 experienced players coming in, one an experienced marquee forward that would raise eyebrows, then it was said experienced players may be waiting for other offers from higher up the league, now its we may have to wait until the last day of the window for any other signings with no mention of said marquee striker signing, now this signing may still happen but he's already starting to back track 'these players may or may not become available'. Now I really hope it happens but you probably know what coming - we thought we had them etc. but they decided to go to x, y or z and we will go with what we have. He needs to stop the bullshit until we see improvement on pitch of which we have seen nothing since day 1.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by The_Gun » Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:19 am

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:57 am
Evatt is a bull shitter end of - he back tracks on almost everything he says.

Before the season, definitely promotion - now the fans are expecting to much, long term plan, losing is engrained in the club (although we have a complete new squad who have not been involved in the past 8-9 years), Barrowcelona, style of play, fittest team, press the opposition, 3-4-1-2 wing backs style of play (which he has changed already), exciting, entertaining football, train like Real Madrid blah blah blah - we have rarely seen any evidence of any of it.

Then we had that the transfer window & the first 10 days of it will make or brake our season - what has happened a couple of lower league loan signings & Lee (already injured), he spouted about 2 experienced players coming in, one an experienced marquee forward that would raise eyebrows, then it was said experienced players may be waiting for other offers from higher up the league, now its we may have to wait until the last day of the window for any other signings with no mention of said marquee striker signing, now this signing may still happen but he's already starting to back track 'these players may or may not become available'. Now I really hope it happens but you probably know what coming - we thought we had them etc. but they decided to go to x, y or z and we will go with what we have. He needs to stop the bullshit until we see improvement on pitch of which we have seen nothing since day 1.
Do you remember how bad we were at the start of the season???

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Bertie Wooster » Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:24 am

Yes I do remember & in my opinion we are no better now, apart from in goal now that he's dropped Crellin. IMO nothing, absolutely nothing has improved from the start of the season on or off the pitch.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:34 am

The_Gun wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:19 am
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:57 am
Evatt is a bull shitter end of - he back tracks on almost everything he says.

Before the season, definitely promotion - now the fans are expecting to much, long term plan, losing is engrained in the club (although we have a complete new squad who have not been involved in the past 8-9 years), Barrowcelona, style of play, fittest team, press the opposition, 3-4-1-2 wing backs style of play (which he has changed already), exciting, entertaining football, train like Real Madrid blah blah blah - we have rarely seen any evidence of any of it.

Then we had that the transfer window & the first 10 days of it will make or brake our season - what has happened a couple of lower league loan signings & Lee (already injured), he spouted about 2 experienced players coming in, one an experienced marquee forward that would raise eyebrows, then it was said experienced players may be waiting for other offers from higher up the league, now its we may have to wait until the last day of the window for any other signings with no mention of said marquee striker signing, now this signing may still happen but he's already starting to back track 'these players may or may not become available'. Now I really hope it happens but you probably know what coming - we thought we had them etc. but they decided to go to x, y or z and we will go with what we have. He needs to stop the bullshit until we see improvement on pitch of which we have seen nothing since day 1.
Do you remember how bad we were at the start of the season???
Yes - given our performances seem to come in "halves" at the moment. One of the best "halves" was against Crewe, up there in the top 2 halves of football was against Crewe in the EFL trophy. We've gone back since then.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:36 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:12 pm
Now 19th in the table, four places above sinking into non-league football. Just let that sink in.
If you take a PPG view, there's a case that it doesn't look that bad, but that's glass half full, for me, when it's pretty much drained to the bottom. Below the dots is two wins apart from us. Not good enough.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:45 am

The_Gun wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:19 am
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:57 am
Evatt is a bull shitter end of - he back tracks on almost everything he says.

Before the season, definitely promotion - now the fans are expecting to much, long term plan, losing is engrained in the club (although we have a complete new squad who have not been involved in the past 8-9 years), Barrowcelona, style of play, fittest team, press the opposition, 3-4-1-2 wing backs style of play (which he has changed already), exciting, entertaining football, train like Real Madrid blah blah blah - we have rarely seen any evidence of any of it.

Then we had that the transfer window & the first 10 days of it will make or brake our season - what has happened a couple of lower league loan signings & Lee (already injured), he spouted about 2 experienced players coming in, one an experienced marquee forward that would raise eyebrows, then it was said experienced players may be waiting for other offers from higher up the league, now its we may have to wait until the last day of the window for any other signings with no mention of said marquee striker signing, now this signing may still happen but he's already starting to back track 'these players may or may not become available'. Now I really hope it happens but you probably know what coming - we thought we had them etc. but they decided to go to x, y or z and we will go with what we have. He needs to stop the bullshit until we see improvement on pitch of which we have seen nothing since day 1.
Do you remember how bad we were at the start of the season???
We're absolutely no better now. At the start of the season we looked able to keep the ball and mount attacks. The defence was all over the show and midfield defensively incredibly weak hence we lost games. But we looked like a team that could it solve the issues at the back we'd be ok.

Now we're more solid but overall don't keep the ball as well, don't press as well, and don't have any discernible style. And we also have games where defensively we fall apart still - Port Vale for example.

If we look at our monthly Points per game.

September - 0 (3 games)
October - 1.14 (7 games)
November - 2.6 (5 games)
December - 0.8 (5 games)
January - 0.5 (4 games)

Tell me what sign of progress are you seeing - yes we got 0 points in 3 games in September so yes you can only improve from there. But we''ve only bettered our slightly over 1PPG in Ocotber in November which was a very good month. But since then we've dropped well below 1 PPG. In league 2. Its really not improving. Its going backwards. From a not very good point.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:45 am

I've not fact checked this, but someone posted on WanderersWays that Evatt is currently the 13th longest serving manager in League 2...

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:05 pm

Branagan wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:23 am
For me ripping it up and starting again is not the way now. As long as we aren't in danger of going down, I'd give him another season and maybe even beyond. And even if we are in danger of going down, I don't know who out there would be a safe rescuer at this level.

We're not just trying to build a strong 11 here, we're building a whole new identity, a whole new club. That's going to take a LOT of time and it can't be rushed. Two, three even four transfer windows is nothing when that's the task.

Look at Utd, who are finally clicking after what looked like a bit of a lost cause for OGS at times. Ok, I shouldn't have mentioned them.

This is going to take years. And every time we change manager we are effectively starting the process again.
This is interesting. Is it that they are finally clicking or more that they've always had a lot of very good young players who for one reason or another were either developing still or not quite performing at the level they potentially could. I'm thinking Rashford, Shaw, Wan Biassaka etc...is that down to OGS being any good at managing or just down to a bit of luck? Its a very weird premiership season this time round and again I'd not necessarily say that their performance is reflective of a good decision to stick with OGS over perhaps the fact that others haven't strengthened and some of their younger players have reached peak levels through natural ageing and development.

Now either way - the problem at Bolton is that we don't have a crop of extremely talented younger type players to develop so sticking with a manager for that reason to me is null and void. As others have said above the job at Bolton Wanderers is taking the existing squad and maximising its results. Making changes in the market as and when you can and making good decisions there. But the job is very much immediate and urgent. IF we had an amazing young crop the manager was central to and they were coming through I can see a stronger argument for continuity and patience. But Evatt is seemingly saying he needs a new team...from the one he just signed....

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by The_Gun » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:45 pm

We have a squad of players who are definitely in the upper echelons of League 2 in terms of talent, but who haven't performed to that level yet. Your argument that Solskjaer has succeeded because he was given time for talented players to start realising their potential could equally be used as an argument to keep Evatt.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:54 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:45 am
I've not fact checked this, but someone posted on WanderersWays that Evatt is currently the 13th longest serving manager in League 2...
I saw that. Remarkable if true.

Following on from Insano's comment re OGS and a funny season in the premier league - I also read that OGS is currently behind Mourinhos total at the same stage in his last season. Solskjaer getting the rub of the green as this time around Man City arent streets ahead of everyone else, as they were when the 'Special one' was in the hot seat.
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:31 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:45 pm
We have a squad of players who are definitely in the upper echelons of League 2 in terms of talent, but who haven't performed to that level yet. Your argument that Solskjaer has succeeded because he was given time for talented players to start realising their potential could equally be used as an argument to keep Evatt.
See I don't think it can. Solskjaer whether by luck or judgement (and we'll find out over time) has ended up with a team of good players who have developed naturally because many of them are younger and have got better over time. Now OGS is a good example here because he has been asking for more signings constantly - so lets not pretend his judgement was that he had the right group and it just needed to mature. He's been screaming as have UTD fans about needing new players.

But there is a set of circumstances and an argument where if you have 5 or 6 19 year olds knocking on the door who are all really good and a manager who will give those lads a chance that sticking with that manager might over time produce good results as those 19 year olds develop into fully fledged first team 21 year olds better than anyone you could sign. Consistency of a manager in that scenario can be a benefit as they develop alongside the players and also are more likely to give those players a go...see Hill playing Darcy in league one but Evatt not giving the lad a shot a league lower....

I fully disagree that signing 32 year old, top scorer for promoted Swindon, Eoin Doyle is about waiting a few years for things to mature. Its about results. Were the season on an upwards trajectory again there is an argument to say - hey we might miss out this year but it was a tough summer and the manager is turning it round and we'll iron things out over the summer and improve. But I've shown the results simply don't support that.

So what you're left with is Ian Evatt if he's here in the summer probably signing a lot more players, if he can, and hoping he finds a winning formula. I'd ask - what evidence is there that he is better placed to do that - than someone with more experience who has done so before and has a track record?

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:38 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:54 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:45 am
I've not fact checked this, but someone posted on WanderersWays that Evatt is currently the 13th longest serving manager in League 2...
I saw that. Remarkable if true.

Following on from Insano's comment re OGS and a funny season in the premier league - I also read that OGS is currently behind Mourinhos total at the same stage in his last season. Solskjaer getting the rub of the green as this time around Man City arent streets ahead of everyone else, as they were when the 'Special one' was in the hot seat.
Well that and Liverpool have hit the proverbial brick wall out of nowhere....OGS might go on and do a Fergie from here equally it might be a fluke. They've got a team that has come of age together but I have doubts OGS was planning this - it seems like a lot has gone right for them in a short space of time.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:44 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:38 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:54 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:45 am
I've not fact checked this, but someone posted on WanderersWays that Evatt is currently the 13th longest serving manager in League 2...
I saw that. Remarkable if true.

Following on from Insano's comment re OGS and a funny season in the premier league - I also read that OGS is currently behind Mourinhos total at the same stage in his last season. Solskjaer getting the rub of the green as this time around Man City arent streets ahead of everyone else, as they were when the 'Special one' was in the hot seat.
Well that and Liverpool have hit the proverbial brick wall out of nowhere....OGS might go on and do a Fergie from here equally it might be a fluke. They've got a team that has come of age together but I have doubts OGS was planning this - it seems like a lot has gone right for them in a short space of time.
The fact the Premier League awarded the redshite a minimum of 1 penalty a game (with a re-take when they miss), is helping quite a lot.

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Prufrock » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:55 pm

And the fact that they spent £50m on Fernandes who is currently up there in the top 5 midfielders in the world. I feel like that has *quite* a lot to do with it. That even one or two signings in the right team can do wonders. I feel like there's where we were at going into Jan. Certain players right up there at the top end in the division (Santos, Doyle, Sarc) but big weaknesses in others. It's a team game. Eleven 7/10s will usually beat four or five 9/10s but with two or three 4/10s. It takes time. There have been big improvements to my eye over the past three games. We could have won each of the 3 games (and should have won one). Outside that winning run there aren't many games I can remember thinking that about.

I mean, obviously we didn't, but performances are what you look to over long term and we're putting them in rn I think.
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:59 pm

Just dip checking WW posts on a very similar titled thread - they seem pretty split like this one...

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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:26 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:55 pm
It takes time. There have been big improvements to my eye over the past three games. We could have won each of the 3 games (and should have won one). Outside that winning run there aren't many games I can remember thinking that about.

I mean, obviously we didn't, but performances are what you look to over long term and we're putting them in rn I think.
Interesting and heartening that you think that. As you know I try to be clear-eyed and balanced when assessing my team but lately I've found it somewhat hard to be positive. Will look with fresh eyes on Saturday against a very inconsistent Orient (no other D4 team is in double figures for wins and losses).

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