Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

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Worthy4England
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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:55 am

Jury's still out for me. I think John, Dapo, Lee (if we can keep him on pitch) all improved us. Williams has made us a little defensively better, but nowhere near as good as Thomason going forwards. Maddison done very little for me, Jackson solid but not going to replace John anytime soon and Elbo looks like waste of a wage.

We got WWW, we probably couldn't complain too much (other than Williams red card) if we'd got DLD, so in that sense I'm with TG that on the face of it, that's no improvement.

That said, neither of last two pitches have been in good shape which I think has been a factor.

Having a looksee on whoscored.com Williams has made quite an improvement defensively compared to Thomason (they don't of course record "missed three possible tackles in build up to Mansfields second")

Then again, looking at whoscored.com Maddison has quite a way to go, to catch up to the useless Crawford. Been a huge let down so far, for me.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by LeverEnd » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:03 am

I really like thomasson worthy but would have Williams every time in a game like this.
Tuesday is the sort of game Maddison should thrive in so I think he'll start again, especially as Evatt has a man crush. He hasn't earned it though, with three poor performances. Hope George is back in though, possibly to rest the injury prone Lee. Sarce for Fonz and Arthur/Maddison on the right. Keep Dapo.
...

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:18 am

LeverEnd wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:03 am
I really like thomasson worthy but would have Williams every time in a game like this.
Tuesday is the sort of game Maddison should thrive in so I think he'll start again, especially as Evatt has a man crush. He hasn't earned it though, with three poor performances. Hope George is back in though, possibly to rest the injury prone Lee. Sarce for Fonz and Arthur/Maddison on the right. Keep Dapo.
I'm not making the case to pick Thomason over Williams, my "gripe" about young George has been the defensive side of his game. I've seen improvement though from his first match, to his last start where I had him as MotM.

If we judged Maddison on what he's done, rather than on his reputation, he'd be benched.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:57 am

Personally, I wouldn't give up on Madison just yet. He's barely played any competitive football in ages. It'll take a while for him to get to the level he can play at but I think he's gotten slightly better each game.

He can hit a ball and his dead ball delivery looks way better than anyone else seems to offer. I'd start him again Tuesday.
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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:03 am

Not giving up on him and I'd start him Tuesday too. We have 17 games left and we can't afford passengers for very long.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:42 am

The_Gun wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:03 am
We’ve found a way? If you think today’s game was indication that we’ve stumbled on a successful formula then you definitely were watching something different to me.
I don’t think we’ve suddenly cracked it or got a magic formula. But keeping clean sheets is absolutely the start because clean sheets win you leagues.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:19 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:42 am
The_Gun wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:03 am
We’ve found a way? If you think today’s game was indication that we’ve stumbled on a successful formula then you definitely were watching something different to me.
I don’t think we’ve suddenly cracked it or got a magic formula. But keeping clean sheets is absolutely the start because clean sheets win you leagues.
Conceded 14 goals in 5 games in December - 4 points gained (and one of them was 3-3.
Conceded 5 goals in 5 games in January - 4 points gained...

How bizarre!

Feb conceded 3 in 4 games - 10 points gained.

But in general, I get your drift :-)

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:17 pm

It just goes to show that managers, good or bad, need good players.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:27 pm

Defences win trophies, attacks win games. You won't go far without both. All is balance, although it does strike me that yesterday's game – with its expansive but fruitless first half followed by a scrappily underwhelming but fortunately fruitful second half – might be something of a template for the season...

On Maddison – beginning to think he might be better in the home games, on a decent surface, at least until he gets his touch back. If we're being brutally honest he has on occasion looked as much of a competition winner as Greenidge or Santos V1.0 – as I said yesterday, if he were a nobody, a kid or for that matter a Zack Elbouzedi he'd have been written off now by most.

What we do know is that he's got significant headroom to improve, and this is where the coach earns his corn. I suspect Maddison is trying too hard and needs to do a few simple things well – drive for 10 yards then find a pass rather than seeking to drive 30 and find the top corner - while his confidence, touch and fitness return. And while I thoroughly support the multiple substitutions – keep asking the oppo different questions, unless they really can't answer the first set - it might be adding to Maddison's malaise in that he feels rushed to achieve within the hour. His manager needs to tell him that he has confidence, that he doesn't need to score a screamer, that his game will come when he lets it.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:08 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:17 pm
It just goes to show that managers, good or bad, need good players.
I think good managers maximise what they have. I don’t think anyone can claim even now we are doing that. Nor that Evatt as yet is even average. But he is hopefully learning and that’s good. If we stop the silly sideways slow possession and carry on focussing on being more physical and conceding fewer goals I will be happy. Ultimately however nice a team looks on the eye their success is always built on a solid foundation. See Many City or Liverpool for proof of what happens when said foundation is eroded.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:24 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:27 pm
Defences win trophies, attacks win games. You won't go far without both. All is balance, although it does strike me that yesterday's game – with its expansive but fruitless first half followed by a scrappily underwhelming but fortunately fruitful second half – might be something of a template for the season...

On Maddison – beginning to think he might be better in the home games, on a decent surface, at least until he gets his touch back. If we're being brutally honest he has on occasion looked as much of a competition winner as Greenidge or Santos V1.0 – as I said yesterday, if he were a nobody, a kid or for that matter a Zack Elbouzedi he'd have been written off now by most.

What we do know is that he's got significant headroom to improve, and this is where the coach earns his corn. I suspect Maddison is trying too hard and needs to do a few simple things well – drive for 10 yards then find a pass rather than seeking to drive 30 and find the top corner - while his confidence, touch and fitness return. And while I thoroughly support the multiple substitutions – keep asking the oppo different questions, unless they really can't answer the first set - it might be adding to Maddison's malaise in that he feels rushed to achieve within the hour. His manager needs to tell him that he has confidence, that he doesn't need to score a screamer, that his game will come when he lets it.
Much to agree with here DSB. Not quite gelled in attack as a team, more individual efforts since the recent changes. Looked better on the left than the right generally.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by officer_dibble » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:04 pm

I do think we’ll see Zack again before the end of the season. These pitches are shocking - some very heavy legs second half yesterday. We need to start scoring earlier when on top!

If Doyle had been at the races we would be talking about a 2 or 3-0 win, and without playing particularly well second half. Defence all excellent again (though even John was playing passes out of touch by the second half), but MJ was top for me. His third game of the week (we’ll forget the early bath he got against Stevenage) and he was still ful pelt at 90 minutes. Some engine!

I’m with the majority on Maddison, it’s easy to forget he’s still getting back to match sharpness. His set price delivery was decent, his general play was poor. Start the next home game but he could be keeping a good player out of the team. Isgrove hardly ripped trees up but Sarcevic back in and Delf wide right is an option.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by irie Cee Bee » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:01 pm

We need a player like Madison in the team. He gives us the x factor player that the team doesn't have.. unpredictability. The sort who will do the impossible out of nothing. Looks to be a player who needs to hear the crowd for inspiration as he thrives on confidence. Looks to be slowly finding his feet to me. His delivery was much better and if Doyle was on his game, Madison would be hailed today for his 2 assists (including the one the keeper saved which I don't know how Doyle failed to score) for Doyle's goals.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:08 pm

irie Cee Bee wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:01 pm
We need a player like Madison in the team. He gives us the x factor player that the team doesn't have.. unpredictability. The sort who will do the impossible out of nothing. Looks to be a player who needs to hear the crowd for inspiration as he thrives on confidence. Looks to be slowly finding his feet to me. His delivery was much better and if Doyle was on his game, Madison would be hailed today for his 2 assists (including the one the keeper saved which I don't know how Doyle failed to score) for Doyle's goals.
Correct good post. I agree.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:16 pm

To be honest I'm more worried about the amount of relatively easy chances Doyle is missing, than MM.

I don't know whether its fatigue but with the amount of chances Doyle has had in games, he should be scoring more IMO - it seems like he needs 3 or 4 chances to score a goal.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:15 pm

The player that's given us the X factor the last few games has been Declan John.

The player that's given us 44% pass completion is MM. I'd still start him Tuesday, but he's not been hooked off twice because he's been bossing it.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by irie Cee Bee » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:42 pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:16 pm
To be honest I'm more worried about the amount of relatively easy chances Doyle is missing, than MM.

I don't know whether its fatigue but with the amount of chances Doyle has had in games, he should be scoring more IMO - it seems like he needs 3 or 4 chances to score a goal.
Indeed, especially since the new players arrived. Feeling a little bit intimidated? No longer feeling the pressure and so losing the edge? Or is he feeling the pressure of no longer being the #1 in town? Getting used to his new teammates? Tired from all his running earlier in the season?

Not sure what's happening but he is certainly now getting more chances to score than earlier in the season, and missing. Hope he can come back to form soon. We need him to. Note that Shaun Miller can also bang them in so we have options.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by officer_dibble » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:03 pm

Doyle’s just knackered from carrying the attack on his own half the season. What’s that old saying - be more worried if he wasn’t getting chances? I wouldn’t bet against him scoring at least one in the next two games.

If anyone has theX factor it’s Arthur. First touch, pass it out of play! Next time he gets the ball it’s a mazy dribble. He’s so direct he panics defenders at this level. Great player to bring on.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:45 pm

I can't help but think the criticism of Doyle's finishing is being overstated.

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Re: Going South (end)? Not us. Southend v Bolton Sat 20th Feb 3-0.

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:36 am

nicholaldo wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:45 pm
I can't help but think the criticism of Doyle's finishing is being overstated.
Of course, this table doesn't take into account the quality of the chances, Doyle has been getting, but his conversion rate is towards the bottom of the pile, his shot accuracy seems to be in the middle of the pile.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/le ... op-scorers

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