Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by boltonboris » Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:55 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:53 pm
boltonboris wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:45 pm
Well I think we got a point we barely deserved.
Think Boris left his living room before full time :D
Alright alright. I was torn between saying a win and the points and in the end, did neither!! :drink:
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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by truewhite15 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:57 pm

Barrow came set up for a point, and dared us to break them down. Their strategy nearly worked, too - we don't have anyone capable of unlocking a rigid defence like that on a regular basis (does anyone in this league?)

We stayed patient and waited for a break, a mistake, anything. 1-0 win with 70% possession - that'll do me, every single time.

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:58 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:45 pm
Well I think we got a point we barely deserved. For all the possession we didn’t look like scoring until that incredible ending.

In fact, I would say BECAUSE of all the possession we didn’t look like scoring.

It’s no good having that kind of ball when you don’t have creativity. Sarcevic and Isgrove should really consider themselves lucky to be part of this team. We had too much possession (yeah I know)

Had we let them have more ball, I’m convinced that some pressing and transition play would’ve had created way more chances than we had. We were a bit too easy to defend against and I think we have to change things up a bit to keep this run going

Anyway. Enough negativity. We won. I’m buzzing. I’m gonna get pissed on my own and read tweets from Barrow fans frothing

These are pretty much my thoughts as well, although I'll also add that I agree Barrow organised themselves very well.

We had a brief opportunity to break forward with space in front of us late in the first half and we tore through them. I think that's something Evatt should give some thought to. But for now, it's about celebrating another three points and breaking into a play-off spot.

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:59 pm

I think there's lots of things we were and weren't. I don't have "shite" amongst them. We dominated possession and rarely looked under much threat.

On the flip side, we struggled to break them down, played sideways and back too much and generally failed to find much inspiration in our running. All of which made for a pretty boring affair.

Most importantly, we got three points. No such thing as a bad three points.

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by boltonboris » Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:01 pm

I entirely agree that Barrow defended brilliantly. No last ditch stuff. Just proper old fashioned keep the ball in front of you stuff

They blocked 8 shots. That’s not flukey, or bad attacking. That’s coached defending.

Their manager deserves credit. But fvck em.
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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by DJBlu » Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:03 pm

CODE: SELECT ALL Rare moment of honesty.

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:34 pm

So performances...

Gilks - flawless
Jones - had lots of the ball can someone coach him to beat the first man with a cross? I do think he’s a very good RB for this level though.
John - Not sure what happened today but seemed not to be bursting forward. Barrow had worked on it clearly but still he seemed deep at times. Perhaps tiring a bit too?
Santos/Baptiste - Both excellent today Barrow had one great chance that came down our left and we looked a bit all at sea. But that was it.
Lee - Solid if at times a slow to get the ball going forwards. He probably needs someone to play those triangles with.
MJ - Very good again but might have got away with a penalty at the end - no need to dither for him there.
Sarce - He was quiet and in and out as is his way. He’s one of those who had the quality to up the tempo and we saw the odd flash but not enough today.
Dapo - I don’t think he works on the left. Came inside and looked better as he drifted across the pitch. Like Sarce I think he’s got the quality to up the tempo for us and made a couple of great incisive passes.
Isgrove - He’s just frustrating. Very frustrating.
Doyle - Probably his most ineffective game since joining.

We missed Delf a bit but really the problem is well outlined by others. We were too slow in possession and if you have 72% possession you can’t keep going sideways and backwards. Hope we develop a plan B because I do feel we are one dimensional. The goal came from just throwing the ball in there and sometimes you just need to do that.

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:59 pm

Not got data on this but 7th in league two last few seasons has got 71,75,70,75 points. So somewhere between 70-75 to get that play off spot.

15 games left. 8 or 9 wins to get a spot. Assuming a few draws too.

Probably 10/11 wins minimum for a shot at automatics.

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:02 pm

I didn't watch the game today, but it appears that we bossed the game without creating much (which is the norm), great 3 points - now in the play off spots - however up front we must do much better, I said after Tues that Doyle needs 4 or 5 good chances to score a goal and it sounds like it was the same today, Miller (I'm not saying is a better player) but is a better finisher than Doyle.

If the players can play with more pace & intensity for more than 10-15 mins in a game we could have a chance of going up, but my worry is that we play most of the games in 1st gear, just going through the motions - we are the best team (on paper in League 2) by far but they just need motivating to believe in themselves and play with a lot more intensity & passion.

I'm happy as Larry tonight (whoever Larry is ?), but for me we still haven't got out of 1st gear all season & motivation is a worry for me as we have the players to be seriously walking this league, but we rarely if ever win comfortably against much inferior opposition and this worries me a little.

I'll be honest & this may sound daft after 5 wins on the spin and now being in the play offs, but both Doyle & Sarcevic have really disappointed me this season as I expected a lot more from both.

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:30 pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:02 pm
I didn't watch the game today, but it appears that we bossed the game without creating much (which is the norm), great 3 points - now in the play off spots - however up front we must do much better, I said after Tues that Doyle needs 4 or 5 good chances to score a goal and it sounds like it was the same today, Miller (I'm not saying is a better player) but is a better finisher than Doyle.

If the players can play with more pace & intensity for more than 10-15 mins in a game we could have a chance of going up, but my worry is that we play most of the games in 1st gear, just going through the motions - we are the best team (on paper in League 2) by far but they just need motivating to believe in themselves and play with a lot more intensity & passion.

I'm happy as Larry tonight (whoever Larry is ?), but for me we still haven't got out of 1st gear all season & motivation is a worry for me as we have the players to be seriously walking this league, but we rarely if ever win comfortably against much inferior opposition and this worries me a little.

I'll be honest & this may sound daft after 5 wins on the spin and now being in the play offs, but both Doyle & Sarcevic have really disappointed me this season as I expected a lot more from both.
I think our main issue is this obsession with possession. Evatt tonight says we scored late because of it. But had the ref been silly as is possible it’s just as plausible Barrow would have won late. It’s not for me a viable plan. We need to get the ball forward quicker. I think Sarce and Doyle would benefit both are players clearly more used to playing in sides that play at higher tempo. You can see it with both who try and do everything one and two touch. Same with Lee.

Our football if it went up a gear I suspect would be enough to beat many sides.

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:55 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:59 pm
Not got data on this but 7th in league two last few seasons has got 71,75,70,75 points. So somewhere between 70-75 to get that play off spot.

15 games left. 8 or 9 wins to get a spot. Assuming a few draws too.

Probably 10/11 wins minimum for a shot at automatics.
Had a quick dig. I suspect the two 75pt totals were outliers. Here's the 7th-placed points totals in the last decade (excl last season cos it didn't finish)
.
Screenshot 2021-02-27 at 19.37.01.png
Screenshot 2021-02-27 at 19.37.01.png (19.92 KiB) Viewed 616 times
.
You'll notice I've added along with the 7th-placed points totals when most teams round there had reached 31 games - an inexact science, but worth a peep, because that's the mark we reached today - and we're on 47pts, lower than any of those.

True, the teams directly below us with a game or two in hand might nudge it up – but equally, they might not, because the fixture schedule is getting unusually crammed and the division seems unusually even this season, which is part of the reason we've shot up 12 places in a month: it's an "Anyone can beat anyone" division. Today, Morecambe (currently 5th) lost to Mansfield (16th); on Wednesday, FGR (2nd) lost at home to Southend (22nd); last Saturday, Cheltenham (3rd) lost at home to Bradford (11th); the week before, Tranmere (4th) lost at home to Stevenage (18th), and so on. The form tables look like someone's wired up traffic lights to a disco DJ's decks: only one team in the entire division has avoided defeat in its last five games, and we support it. Better than that, we've won all five.

I also have a feeling that other teams will suddenly be very worried that we seem to be winning a lot; if they also know we're winning some of them without hitting top gear, that will hardly calm their nerves.

Anyway, a theoretical 70pts would require us to get another 23 from 15 games - W7 D2 L6. It doesn't seem too absurdly ambitious.

IDK, it could go either way, but I suspect it'll be more like 70 than 75. It might even be more like 65 than 75, but we'll see.
Last edited by Dave Sutton's barnet on Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:57 pm

BWFCI absolutely correct, its shown all season when we go behind the players suddenly start playing at a higher tempo & intensity and move the ball quicker - I just honesty & seriously can't understand why they don't do it in every game from the 1st whistle. When we play with greater tempo & intensity we are head & shoulders above everyone else in this league, but we don't (and we start games so lethargic) and this is a major issue for me, why the fcuk can't our players come out & play with pace, passion & intensity from minute 1.

Is this the players attitude or Evatt's apparent shocking motivational pre & half time team talks, but as I said we rarely get out of 1st gear most games apart from a 10-15 min spell - I have to ask why can't our players play at a greater intensity because if they would we would blow most teams away & stop the fans panicking so much.

We are on a great run & its promising, but there is still something missing for me attitude wise. They should be flying now ability & confidence wise but they still look like they are playing in 1st gear almost every game.

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by Spartan2 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:06 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:30 pm
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:02 pm
I didn't watch the game today, but it appears that we bossed the game without creating much (which is the norm), great 3 points - now in the play off spots - however up front we must do much better, I said after Tues that Doyle needs 4 or 5 good chances to score a goal and it sounds like it was the same today, Miller (I'm not saying is a better player) but is a better finisher than Doyle.

If the players can play with more pace & intensity for more than 10-15 mins in a game we could have a chance of going up, but my worry is that we play most of the games in 1st gear, just going through the motions - we are the best team (on paper in League 2) by far but they just need motivating to believe in themselves and play with a lot more intensity & passion.

I'm happy as Larry tonight (whoever Larry is ?), but for me we still haven't got out of 1st gear all season & motivation is a worry for me as we have the players to be seriously walking this league, but we rarely if ever win comfortably against much inferior opposition and this worries me a little.

I'll be honest & this may sound daft after 5 wins on the spin and now being in the play offs, but both Doyle & Sarcevic have really disappointed me this season as I expected a lot more from both.
I think our main issue is this obsession with possession. Evatt tonight says we scored late because of it. But had the ref been silly as is possible it’s just as plausible Barrow would have won late. It’s not for me a viable plan. We need to get the ball forward quicker. I think Sarce and Doyle would benefit both are players clearly more used to playing in sides that play at higher tempo. You can see it with both who try and do everything one and two touch. Same with Lee.

Our football if it went up a gear I suspect would be enough to beat many sides.
How many times have we employed a backs against the wall, play for a draw strategy against better teams. That's what barrow were doing to us, it's a strategy for avoiding relegation not for winning titles. We dominated today, a combination of good defending and poor/tired performances particularly from the front four meant we found it difficult to break 'em down but this is a problem good teams face, an opposition happy with a point. It's a million times better than watching us do it, I've seen enough of that since the prem days. Possession all the way baby!

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by nelson66 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:17 pm

If we can stay relatively injury free... then...
WE ARE GOING UP I SAY WE ARE GOING UP
WE ARE GOING UP I SAY WE ARE GOING UP
WE ARE GOING UP I SAY WE ARE GOING UP
WE ARE GOING UP I SAY WE ARE GOING UP
The Whites Are Going Up 2021 :pissed: :grin:

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:29 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:55 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:59 pm
Not got data on this but 7th in league two last few seasons has got 71,75,70,75 points. So somewhere between 70-75 to get that play off spot.

15 games left. 8 or 9 wins to get a spot. Assuming a few draws too.

Probably 10/11 wins minimum for a shot at automatics.
Had a quick dig. I suspect the two 75pt totals were outliers. Here's the 7th-placed points totals in the last decade (excl last season cos it didn't finish)
.
Screenshot 2021-02-27 at 19.37.01.png
.
You'll notice I've added along with the 7th-placed points totals when most teams round there had reached 31 games - an inexact science, but worth a peep, because that's the mark we reached today - and we're on 47pts, lower than any of those.

True, the teams directly below us with a game or two in hand might nudge it up – but equally, they might not, because the fixture schedule is getting unusually crammed and the division seems unusually even this season, which is part of the reason we've shot up 12 places in a month: it's an "Anyone can beat anyone" division. Today, Morecambe (currently 5th) lost to Mansfield (16th); on Wednesday, FGR (2nd) lost at home to Southend (22nd); last Saturday, Cheltenham (3rd) lost at home to Bradford (11th); the week before, Tranmere (4th) lost at home to Stevenage (18th), and so on. The form tables look like someone's wired up traffic lights to a disco DJ's decks: only one team in the entire division has avoided defeat in its last five games, and we support it. Better than that, we've won all five.

I also have a feeling that other teams will suddenly be very worried that we seem to be winning a lot; if they also know we're winning some of them without hitting top gear, that will hardly calm their nerves.

Anyway, a theoretical 70pts would require us to get another 23 from 15 games - W7 D2 L6. It doesn't seem too absurdly ambitious.

IDK, it could go either way, but I suspect it'll be more like 70 than 75. It might even be more like 65 than 75, but we'll see.
Thanks I was hoping you’d do this. It’s definitely an inexact science this season as you say it’s a bit unusual. We are on 47 as were a couple of other teams in there.

I’m not sure you can predict it but as you say anywhere from 68-75 and maybe even a couple lower this time round. It’s very doable. We need to keep finding ways to win. Mathematically obviously teams have games in hand.

But I’d argue with our squad the options we’ve got off the bench then assuming a huge injury curse doesn’t strike we’d probably be favourites of the chasing pack.

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:45 pm

Agreed. I fear a loss becoming a wobble but hopefully we are past that and W7 D2 L6 doesn’t seem the high bar many of us expected. We’ll see.

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by TonyDomingos » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:47 pm

nelson66 wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:17 pm
If we can stay relatively injury free... then...
WE ARE GOING UP I SAY WE ARE GOING UP
WE ARE GOING UP I SAY WE ARE GOING UP
WE ARE GOING UP I SAY WE ARE GOING UP
WE ARE GOING UP I SAY WE ARE GOING UP

🤦‍♂️ Domed.
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Sobre a terra, sobre o mar,
Às armas, às armas!
Pela Pátria lutar!
Contra os canhões marchar, marchar!

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by TonyDomingos » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:54 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:29 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:55 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:59 pm
Not got data on this but 7th in league two last few seasons has got 71,75,70,75 points. So somewhere between 70-75 to get that play off spot.

15 games left. 8 or 9 wins to get a spot. Assuming a few draws too.

Probably 10/11 wins minimum for a shot at automatics.
Had a quick dig. I suspect the two 75pt totals were outliers. Here's the 7th-placed points totals in the last decade (excl last season cos it didn't finish)
.
Screenshot 2021-02-27 at 19.37.01.png
.
You'll notice I've added along with the 7th-placed points totals when most teams round there had reached 31 games - an inexact science, but worth a peep, because that's the mark we reached today - and we're on 47pts, lower than any of those.

True, the teams directly below us with a game or two in hand might nudge it up – but equally, they might not, because the fixture schedule is getting unusually crammed and the division seems unusually even this season, which is part of the reason we've shot up 12 places in a month: it's an "Anyone can beat anyone" division. Today, Morecambe (currently 5th) lost to Mansfield (16th); on Wednesday, FGR (2nd) lost at home to Southend (22nd); last Saturday, Cheltenham (3rd) lost at home to Bradford (11th); the week before, Tranmere (4th) lost at home to Stevenage (18th), and so on. The form tables look like someone's wired up traffic lights to a disco DJ's decks: only one team in the entire division has avoided defeat in its last five games, and we support it. Better than that, we've won all five.

I also have a feeling that other teams will suddenly be very worried that we seem to be winning a lot; if they also know we're winning some of them without hitting top gear, that will hardly calm their nerves.

Anyway, a theoretical 70pts would require us to get another 23 from 15 games - W7 D2 L6. It doesn't seem too absurdly ambitious.

IDK, it could go either way, but I suspect it'll be more like 70 than 75. It might even be more like 65 than 75, but we'll see.
Thanks I was hoping you’d do this. It’s definitely an inexact science this season as you say it’s a bit unusual. We are on 47 as were a couple of other teams in there.

I’m not sure you can predict it but as you say anywhere from 68-75 and maybe even a couple lower this time round. It’s very doable. We need to keep finding ways to win. Mathematically obviously teams have games in hand.

But I’d argue with our squad the options we’ve got off the bench then assuming a huge injury curse doesn’t strike we’d probably be favourites of the chasing pack.

Funny old season, this one. The usual average of minimum 2ppg to win a title / automatic promotion doesn't seem to apply. Cambridge are top on 1.72ppg and FGR (with games in hand) are on 1.8. We're on 1.52.
Às armas, às armas!
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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:00 pm

TonyDomingos wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:54 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:29 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:55 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:59 pm
Not got data on this but 7th in league two last few seasons has got 71,75,70,75 points. So somewhere between 70-75 to get that play off spot.

15 games left. 8 or 9 wins to get a spot. Assuming a few draws too.

Probably 10/11 wins minimum for a shot at automatics.
Had a quick dig. I suspect the two 75pt totals were outliers. Here's the 7th-placed points totals in the last decade (excl last season cos it didn't finish)
.
Screenshot 2021-02-27 at 19.37.01.png
.
You'll notice I've added along with the 7th-placed points totals when most teams round there had reached 31 games - an inexact science, but worth a peep, because that's the mark we reached today - and we're on 47pts, lower than any of those.

True, the teams directly below us with a game or two in hand might nudge it up – but equally, they might not, because the fixture schedule is getting unusually crammed and the division seems unusually even this season, which is part of the reason we've shot up 12 places in a month: it's an "Anyone can beat anyone" division. Today, Morecambe (currently 5th) lost to Mansfield (16th); on Wednesday, FGR (2nd) lost at home to Southend (22nd); last Saturday, Cheltenham (3rd) lost at home to Bradford (11th); the week before, Tranmere (4th) lost at home to Stevenage (18th), and so on. The form tables look like someone's wired up traffic lights to a disco DJ's decks: only one team in the entire division has avoided defeat in its last five games, and we support it. Better than that, we've won all five.

I also have a feeling that other teams will suddenly be very worried that we seem to be winning a lot; if they also know we're winning some of them without hitting top gear, that will hardly calm their nerves.

Anyway, a theoretical 70pts would require us to get another 23 from 15 games - W7 D2 L6. It doesn't seem too absurdly ambitious.

IDK, it could go either way, but I suspect it'll be more like 70 than 75. It might even be more like 65 than 75, but we'll see.
Thanks I was hoping you’d do this. It’s definitely an inexact science this season as you say it’s a bit unusual. We are on 47 as were a couple of other teams in there.

I’m not sure you can predict it but as you say anywhere from 68-75 and maybe even a couple lower this time round. It’s very doable. We need to keep finding ways to win. Mathematically obviously teams have games in hand.

But I’d argue with our squad the options we’ve got off the bench then assuming a huge injury curse doesn’t strike we’d probably be favourites of the chasing pack.

Funny old season, this one. The usual average of minimum 2ppg to win a title / automatic promotion doesn't seem to apply. Cambridge are top on 1.72ppg and FGR (with games in hand) are on 1.8. We're on 1.52.
It being compressed helps us. With 15 games to play we could plausibly win the league. And still mathematically and probably actually with a terrible run be relegated. Neither are likely but neither impossible either.

The teams below us have games in hand but there are about 10 sides after 4 playoff spots so it will be interesting to say the least.

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Re: Will the wheel drop off? Barrow (h) 27/02/21 15:00

Post by Bijou Bob » Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:09 pm

Once again we struggled against a team who came and parked the bus. But for some woeful finishing from them, we’d have lost today. Too pedestrian throughout, I thought we missed Thomasson’s business and positivity in the centre and the cross field balls he plays to create space. Way too often we fanny about and go backwards rather than being positive and playing an adventurous pass in behind. I can barely remember their centre backs being turned today.

That having been said, we were lucky and at the moment, I’ll take that. I’ll also take a point on Tuesday night.

They were devastated at the final whistle and it really brought home the fact that at this level, being relegated spells the end of careers and dreams. Some of their players will be signing on come June if they don’t improve. Interesting that there was no sign of Zouma, who has barely kicked a ball for them yet.

Onwards and hopefully, upwards.
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