The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

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Worthy4England
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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Worthy4England » Sat May 01, 2021 10:57 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:49 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:41 pm
And if we feck it up the list of people whose fault it is starts and ends with the forward line...Isgrove, Dapo, Delf, Arthur...none good enough for me. Sarce gets a pass cos he’s been injured, Kieron Lee another...one more game, one more chance...don’t fancy us in the play offs
Kieron Lee is not an attacking midfield player. He has 26 goals in 300 odd games. Never going to score much.

I agree with the rest, Delf was ok first half of season.

But rest aren’t good enough. If we went up none of them are close to good enough. If we stayed down I’d want options who actually score and create.
Not unreasonable!

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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Prufrock » Sun May 02, 2021 1:43 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 5:06 pm
Blimey, some of them were quicker than I expected. Funny how absent they were last weekend.

I will say this before I exile myself. When their goalie came up and Doyler immediately went up front, I got a bad feeling: not only did they have another body in the box, we now had one fewer. We just looked outnumbered in there.

Oh well. Still in our hands, because this bunch of bottlers won at Morecambe.
I had the same feeling but I get it. I'd have taken the point at that stage, draw and Morecambe have to win next week, puts pressure on. But given Exeter needed to win so threw everyone up, say Gilks catches it were probably 50/50 score and we're up. And I'm not sure Doyle makes a big difference to a centre back charging in at the back stick (granted you never know the different runs everyone makes).

Watched it on dying battery in a beer garden with awful WiFi. Moved our kick off next week to 1pm so our triple London whites can do the same again. We're good enough, they've just got to do it. It's the Bolton way.
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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Prufrock » Sun May 02, 2021 1:46 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 5:18 pm
Lack of attacking intent summed up by Delf getting the ball on the penalty spot and squaring it!!

Ah well, could be worse. I could have been outside the ground!
Squaring it is f*cking generous. He'd have hit one of the Reebok rebels if they'd been there. One of the worst things I've seen a professional footballer do.
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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Prufrock » Sun May 02, 2021 1:49 am

The_Gun wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 6:26 pm
The state of some of you.
It's a fun read to come in to, Jesus wept.
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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Prufrock » Sun May 02, 2021 1:51 am

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 6:49 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 6:41 pm
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 6:32 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 6:26 pm
The state of some of you pricks.
Oh hello....care to elaborate ?
Automatic promotion remains in our own hands going into the last game. Get behind your fecking team.
Look we are all different and respond in different ways, some fans are passionate and others more passive (like our players) - but we all want the same thing - you are absolutely correct automatic promotion is in our own hands, but after that today are you seriously confident that we can go to Crawley and win because I'll be honest I'm not.

By the way are some not allowed to be critical ? - personally I'm gutted after today and have no faith in these players getting a result at Crawley, are we still pricks because we are disappointed ?
Of course you're allowed, that's why the words appear after you hit post.

I'm glad you're personally gutted. I'm delighted. Really wanted us to lose.
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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Prufrock » Sun May 02, 2021 2:03 am

Well that was a fun read. I know I know emotions run high, we're all on the same team. But for all the "bollocks" started, you can't argue with the facts Worthy posted. Much like the Parky League 1 season, it's been a season of basically 2 teams. I don't think you can much fault the current lot. We were 20th in Feb. I'd say we've been the best team in the league since, and I think that's pretty tough to argue with, but we have no divine right to win games, it's a league, it's *designed* to put teams of similar ability together, you can lose any game. I only saw the last hour due to ifollow nonsense but on that showing Exeter deserved to win today. It happens. I hope we're on the side next week, but if not, it's the shit show of the start of the year (and the manager gets fair blame for that as much as he gets credit for the second half).

What I would say in his side is he's a young manager, and he's obviously and clearly to me for better as we've gone on. People want to say if we don't go up we're doomed, I seem to remember the best manager I've seen us have come back from similar. We're in good hands. And the bottle stuff is nonsense too, Salford, Morecambe, there's plenty fight.

But it's got Tranmere play off defeat written all over it.
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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun May 02, 2021 5:32 am

Prufrock wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 2:03 am
Well that was a fun read. I know I know emotions run high, we're all on the same team. But for all the "bollocks" started, you can't argue with the facts Worthy posted. Much like the Parky League 1 season, it's been a season of basically 2 teams. I don't think you can much fault the current lot. We were 20th in Feb. I'd say we've been the best team in the league since, and I think that's pretty tough to argue with, but we have no divine right to win games, it's a league, it's *designed* to put teams of similar ability together, you can lose any game. I only saw the last hour due to ifollow nonsense but on that showing Exeter deserved to win today. It happens. I hope we're on the side next week, but if not, it's the shit show of the start of the year (and the manager gets fair blame for that as much as he gets credit for the second half).

What I would say in his side is he's a young manager, and he's obviously and clearly to me for better as we've gone on. People want to say if we don't go up we're doomed, I seem to remember the best manager I've seen us have come back from similar. We're in good hands. And the bottle stuff is nonsense too, Salford, Morecambe, there's plenty fight.

But it's got Tranmere play off defeat written all over it.
You can’t have it both ways. If we are the best side in the league second half of the season get to a place where beating either Exeter or Crawley who both sit below us takes us up and don’t - is that not bottling it, blowing it, cracking when it matters? If you argue it isn’t then you’re saying in reality that we’ve been a bit fortunate and aren’t really the best side and this is just that evening itself out at an unfortunate time. But it’s either or. Especially if you then say we will lose in the play offs to sides below us.

I don’t think you can compare Sam Allardyce taking us from 19th to the championship play offs to be robbed by a Mr Knight to the possibility we fail to beat Exeter and Crawley to go up then also lose in the play offs. It’s no use for me saying ‘ah but what if first half we had a better team’. We’ve got here and it’s about doing the job in hand and not making excuses. There is absolutely no reason on earth we shouldn’t and IF we don’t surely there are things to pick over?

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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sun May 02, 2021 8:09 am

Prufrock wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 2:03 am
Well that was a fun read. I know I know emotions run high, we're all on the same team. But for all the "bollocks" started, you can't argue with the facts Worthy posted. Much like the Parky League 1 season, it's been a season of basically 2 teams. I don't think you can much fault the current lot. We were 20th in Feb. I'd say we've been the best team in the league since, and I think that's pretty tough to argue with, but we have no divine right to win games, it's a league, it's *designed* to put teams of similar ability together, you can lose any game. I only saw the last hour due to ifollow nonsense but on that showing Exeter deserved to win today. It happens. I hope we're on the side next week, but if not, it's the shit show of the start of the year (and the manager gets fair blame for that as much as he gets credit for the second half).

What I would say in his side is he's a young manager, and he's obviously and clearly to me for better as we've gone on. People want to say if we don't go up we're doomed, I seem to remember the best manager I've seen us have come back from similar. We're in good hands. And the bottle stuff is nonsense too, Salford, Morecambe, there's plenty fight.

But it's got Tranmere play off defeat written all over it.
Both Evatt & Gilks in their post match interviews mention that the pressure may have got to the team, and that too many of them had off games yesterday, that's called bottling it.

What makes anyone think that they wont bottle it again next week ?

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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by officer_dibble » Sun May 02, 2021 8:26 am

Fair point, let’s forfeit the game now!

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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun May 02, 2021 9:19 am

Prufrock wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 2:03 am

But it's got Tranmere play off defeat written all over it.
Don't feckin say that!!

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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun May 02, 2021 10:06 am

No prognosticator me, however, I mentioned earlier in the week the sort who'd be turning up at the stadium yesterday. An absolute embarrassment. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... WBtTIMnT1U
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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by nicholaldo » Sun May 02, 2021 10:27 am

As Parky has been mentioned, I think it's fair to point out that in the season he got us promoted we went three matches without winning during the run-in. Two defeats, including one against the club that went on to finish third, and a 0-0 at home to Bury. We still won comfortably on the final day to secure second place.

The season after, fighting against relegation, we went seven matches without winning, losing six and drawing one, including a defeat to a relegation rival, before again winning on the final day to stay up.

Both those squads of players were written off before the fat lady began warming up her vocal cords, yet both went on to achieve their objective. That doesn't necessarily mean our current team will achieve theirs - and I share plenty of the concerns about our performances - but what do we gain by throwing the towel in early?

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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sun May 02, 2021 10:37 am

Who's saying throw the towel in ? I really hope we win next week as I honestly don't fancy us in the play off's the way the team is currently playing.

I was just saying earlier that both Evatt & Gilks said that the pressure may have got to the players yesterday, and to me that's what I call 'bottling it', therefore if that is the mentality of the team then they could also bottle it again next week - I really hope that they don't and that yesterday hurt them a lot and they come out next week and play with desire & intensity for 90mins, but we've been saying this for months and they still only play well in patches.

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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Worthy4England » Sun May 02, 2021 10:40 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:32 am
Prufrock wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 2:03 am
Well that was a fun read. I know I know emotions run high, we're all on the same team. But for all the "bollocks" started, you can't argue with the facts Worthy posted. Much like the Parky League 1 season, it's been a season of basically 2 teams. I don't think you can much fault the current lot. We were 20th in Feb. I'd say we've been the best team in the league since, and I think that's pretty tough to argue with, but we have no divine right to win games, it's a league, it's *designed* to put teams of similar ability together, you can lose any game. I only saw the last hour due to ifollow nonsense but on that showing Exeter deserved to win today. It happens. I hope we're on the side next week, but if not, it's the shit show of the start of the year (and the manager gets fair blame for that as much as he gets credit for the second half).

What I would say in his side is he's a young manager, and he's obviously and clearly to me for better as we've gone on. People want to say if we don't go up we're doomed, I seem to remember the best manager I've seen us have come back from similar. We're in good hands. And the bottle stuff is nonsense too, Salford, Morecambe, there's plenty fight.

But it's got Tranmere play off defeat written all over it.
You can’t have it both ways. If we are the best side in the league second half of the season get to a place where beating either Exeter or Crawley who both sit below us takes us up and don’t - is that not bottling it, blowing it, cracking when it matters? If you argue it isn’t then you’re saying in reality that we’ve been a bit fortunate and aren’t really the best side and this is just that evening itself out at an unfortunate time. But it’s either or. Especially if you then say we will lose in the play offs to sides below us.

I don’t think you can compare Sam Allardyce taking us from 19th to the championship play offs to be robbed by a Mr Knight to the possibility we fail to beat Exeter and Crawley to go up then also lose in the play offs. It’s no use for me saying ‘ah but what if first half we had a better team’. We’ve got here and it’s about doing the job in hand and not making excuses. There is absolutely no reason on earth we shouldn’t and IF we don’t surely there are things to pick over?
We've got more points since Jan 1, than any other team. More PPG etc. That's a fact. But not by a huge difference to the teams just below us, we're not 15 points in front, it's tight at the top.

That includes our defeats, with yesterday amongst them. Yes, we didn't win yesterday, but if we won every week, we'd be sat on 135 points and the season would've got boring 20 games ago.

There are plenty of things to pick over, because we're talking fine margins with one game left. We might win next week, we might not. When you're being critical of those "expecting us to win", there are probably few people that exhibit this trait, less than you, in the event we lose. We're not the ones being contrary, because we know we might lose.

We better results below us next week, and the job will have been done, regardless of how we might want to pick over it. We don't and tough play-offs that didn't look like they were a possibility at the end of Dec, await.

I'd have been delighted to win yesterday, and have done with the league, but we didn't, they picked up their game, we were second best in the second half, comfortably. We looked tired, leggy and at times downright poor in the second 45, but as you said before the game Exeter aren't a bad team, we battered them first 45 and didn't make it count. It is entirely possible to have a better record than them since Jan, without them becoming a walk over.

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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun May 02, 2021 10:51 am

CODE: SELECT ALL
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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun May 02, 2021 10:54 am

Worthy I’m not having that we are the best side in the division but it’s just coincidental that we lose games when we have a chance to get over the line and it’s just ‘one of those things’. Once or twice ok it happens. But should we lose or draw next week and then not win in the play offs those are the games that matter the ones that define whether your season is ultimately a success or a miserable failure.

I’m simply not buying this ‘happy to be where we are’ stuff. We got to where we are and the job needs finishing off. Or we’ve either bottled it or the position we got to ultimately flattered us.

We’ve got Crawley next week with nothing to play for. For me there are no excuses between Exeter and Crawley if we are half as good as said and mentally strong you win one of those. If not it reflects some significant issue.

Evatt keeps saying we are a big club and these are the pressures of managing us I’m afraid. There aren’t any excuses to be made. Just a job to be done. The thing that defines good managers and great teams is winning when it really matters. Saturdays gone but Crawley is another one that really matters.

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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sun May 02, 2021 11:01 am

Crawley game has been selected for sky, I'm not sure how I feel about this - I think that I would have preferred it to be more low key and not on tv

They may play better with it being shown live ?

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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Prufrock » Sun May 02, 2021 11:04 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:32 am
Prufrock wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 2:03 am
Well that was a fun read. I know I know emotions run high, we're all on the same team. But for all the "bollocks" started, you can't argue with the facts Worthy posted. Much like the Parky League 1 season, it's been a season of basically 2 teams. I don't think you can much fault the current lot. We were 20th in Feb. I'd say we've been the best team in the league since, and I think that's pretty tough to argue with, but we have no divine right to win games, it's a league, it's *designed* to put teams of similar ability together, you can lose any game. I only saw the last hour due to ifollow nonsense but on that showing Exeter deserved to win today. It happens. I hope we're on the side next week, but if not, it's the shit show of the start of the year (and the manager gets fair blame for that as much as he gets credit for the second half).

What I would say in his side is he's a young manager, and he's obviously and clearly to me for better as we've gone on. People want to say if we don't go up we're doomed, I seem to remember the best manager I've seen us have come back from similar. We're in good hands. And the bottle stuff is nonsense too, Salford, Morecambe, there's plenty fight.

But it's got Tranmere play off defeat written all over it.
You can’t have it both ways. If we are the best side in the league second half of the season get to a place where beating either Exeter or Crawley who both sit below us takes us up and don’t - is that not bottling it, blowing it, cracking when it matters? If you argue it isn’t then you’re saying in reality that we’ve been a bit fortunate and aren’t really the best side and this is just that evening itself out at an unfortunate time. But it’s either or. Especially if you then say we will lose in the play offs to sides below us.

I don’t think you can compare Sam Allardyce taking us from 19th to the championship play offs to be robbed by a Mr Knight to the possibility we fail to beat Exeter and Crawley to go up then also lose in the play offs. It’s no use for me saying ‘ah but what if first half we had a better team’. We’ve got here and it’s about doing the job in hand and not making excuses. There is absolutely no reason on earth we shouldn’t and IF we don’t surely there are things to pick over?
No I'm not, I'm saying that in a league campaign even the best side can lose games. Otherwise one team would get 46 wins every season. In February we were 20th and something like 16 points off the top three, now we're -1 off. If we don't make it, we'll only have made up 15 points not 17. That's still spectacular. If we don't go up the reason is the shitshow up to Feb. It's Jamie Mascoll, Billy Crellin, Harry Brockbankn at LWB. This lot would still have been the best team in the league (or 2nd I'm not sure on the PPG since Jan), just not by enough to make up for the half season with a team who were very much not the best team.

As for the pressure stuff, sure it's tough, it may well have played a part. It's not like they didn't try. Someone posted a link to the 3-0 Peterborough win, but as someone else pointed out that side also had a proper wobble in the run in. They got themselves into a position where they were allowed an off day, and in a league you can lose games. But by your logic there's no point turning up next week, there will be even more pressure so we'll definitely lose. X+y=z. Might as well rest everyone with a knock for the play offs.

I'd still rather be us then Morecambe, and I'd back us to turn up next week and be better than yesterday. I think that would probably be enough. It might not be. Or we might not turn up and still fluke a win. That's how it goes.
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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by McD » Sun May 02, 2021 11:06 am

Just seen and read Evatt's reaction and guess what - Same old story "Not my fault", he goes on to blame everyone and everything without taking any of the responsibility
1. “On the pitch, there’s just too many below par" - For what reason? - you are the manager - you should know!
2. "Too many went into their shells in the second half. We looked out on our feet and that is the emotion of the game and the expectancy". - Evatt should have raised and dealt with these issues, he is the manager
3. "We just wasn't ourselves. Having got the early goal and exactly what we needed to do, we just stopped doing what was getting us into those positions. I don’t know if that’s fear or what, we’re very disappointed obviously.” - Evatt should have addressed this at half-time, whatever he did made it worse
4. “I thought second half, we ducked it, if I’m being honest. Too many players were hiding, too many players not wanting the ball in tight areas, too many players just happy to try and hang on to what we had". - Blame gaming again, Evatt should have addressed this by talking the team UP - Wonder what he did say at half-time?
5. "That’s not us and not what we want to do. Yes, we win 1-0 of course, but we don’t stop attacking, we don’t stop showing for the ball and we did that second half". - Not really, Exeter attacked and your lack instructions to the team on how to deal with them was the reason.
My points here are several
a. Evatt may have great ideas on how to play, but if he cannot communicate this to individual players and the team, then he might as well carry on reading his books for all the good it will do
b. Evatt needs to show understanding of emotions and empathise not respond with knee -jerk reactions
c. Everything identified by Evatt above are real and present dangers and he should have addressed them, not use them as the ammunition of blame
d. He has become very astute in leading interviews and using them to promote his agenda and what he believes we want to hear, he is clever, just not a good manager
Then the finale
6. "But having said all that we’ve still got a chance to win on Saturday which gets us promoted, so on to Saturday.”
[6] Really is saying "now that I have told you that it was not my fault, I want to tell you that I am still positive"
7. “It’s a huge positive, of course. We have to get the job done. We can’t rely on other teams to slip up, so we have to go and make sure we win the game at Crawley."
8. "There’s no reason why we can’t. We just need to play better than what we did today.”
Please read [8] again and again, as this is the preparation for placing the blame should we not get the result needed at Crawley

For those of you who will call this un-productive or to "get behind the team", I have done so for 63 years and will continue to support BWFC - But, we do need to voice opinions and not be shut down by a manager who derides and simply ignores his fan base, unless of course they are kneeling at his feet in adoration - If Evatt wants to criticise, no problem, but has he ever been asked a real question by an "official" interviewer? I think not

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Re: The future is hidden from all men and great events hang on small chances: Exeter (H) Sat 1/5/21 @ 3pm

Post by Prufrock » Sun May 02, 2021 11:10 am

No-one is shutting you down. A load of words have just appeared next to your name, and will stay there, no matter what anyone else says. You've confused getting cancelled with getting disagreed with.
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