Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:27 am

See IE is talking up Liam Gordon. I do like this - its a good sign when players struggle, come back in and the manager is prepared to give them a chance. He's 22 and clearly has lots of attributes but the loan potentially has done him good.

I think there is something there and rather he'd be part of our squad than discarded because it saves bringing another body in. Same for Darcy, Politic, Senior etc....

Crawford too - if he can get back to his best - be a great option - my preference would be using the money we saved on him to sign a proven goal getter in midfield but if there aren't takers lets get him firing here.

I don't like managers who discard players (other than when patience has been exhausted or its obvious they can't reach the level etc) and I think its always a good sign when they are welcomed back in and encouraged.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Prufrock » Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:52 am

Senior getting good words too. He's obviously going to start down the pecking order but with Baps' age and Aimston's injury record there might be a chance there. Maybe keep him around for the first half of the season, give him minutes in the JPT and then look at a loan in Jan.
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:57 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:27 am
See IE is talking up Liam Gordon. I do like this - its a good sign when players struggle, come back in and the manager is prepared to give them a chance. He's 22 and clearly has lots of attributes but the loan potentially has done him good.

I think there is something there and rather he'd be part of our squad than discarded because it saves bringing another body in. Same for Darcy, Politic, Senior etc....

Crawford too - if he can get back to his best - be a great option - my preference would be using the money we saved on him to sign a proven goal getter in midfield but if there aren't takers lets get him firing here.

I don't like managers who discard players (other than when patience has been exhausted or its obvious they can't reach the level etc) and I think its always a good sign when they are welcomed back in and encouraged.
Agreed. And it also backs up what he said earlier this month (re Crawford but also generally):
Doors for all players are never shut really. Obviously as you can see it is really competitive, so then it boils down to player decision. We are never going to boot anybody out of the football club. It is not the way I do things,
Moving players on is a difficult part of management. Sometimes managers handle it with panache, sometimes it has to be more brutal; Tony Philliskirk spoke highly of Bruce Rioch's honesty in wanting to replace him, but I doubt you'd get the same thumbs-up from Steve Fulton (and let's not forget that Bruce sacked Tony Kelly after one burger too many).

Evatt swerved the usual new-boss problem of deadwood because he had an empty squad; however, last summer's trolley-dash meant he had some unwanted bodies around the place. Notably, nobody seems to have left on noisily bad terms - even Mascoll and Hickman, who were deregistered - and indeed the Maddison situation seems to have been very well-handled.

Regarding Liam Gordon, I think there might also be an element of focusing elsewhere. Given that you'd expect Declan John to be one of our better (and thus better-remunerated) players, it might seem a bit daft to pay the wage of an experienced backup. That's even more important if we're now seeking to add an extra player due to Amaechi's injury.

But there is also, I'm sure, a hope that Flash can kick on. Note within today's quotes that Evatt has taken the traditional managerial "sh*t sandwich" approach by surrounding the Must Do Better with pleasantries:
"Liam is back in my plans because of Liam. He has gone and earned that right. He went out on loan, got his head down, worked really hard and played really well and that is all you can ask of your players. Then he came back in pre-season and did well too. So, he has deserved a shot... He is a young player but he is learning all the time. He is understanding what is required. Yes, he still needs to be fitter, there’s no two ways about that, but the tactical detail and his possession stuff has been great. He is physically strong and dominant so he can defend as well. He has the attributes, it’s just him knuckling down, keeping his head down and working hard to improve his game.
Again, nothing wrong with that: a public pep talk laced with actions. As you say, good management – not just of the players, but also of the squad situation.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:59 am

Prufrock wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:52 am
Senior getting good words too. He's obviously going to start down the pecking order but with Baps' age and Aimston's injury record there might be a chance there. Maybe keep him around for the first half of the season, give him minutes in the JPT and then look at a loan in Jan.
Yep - I wonder if it's possible to have him on one of those work-ex loans which would also allow him to play in the Sherpa Van for us.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Prufrock » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:19 am

Completely agree with you both on Gordon. He's got his head down and improved (and full back is easier than wing back where you have to be exceptional. Only really Kioso excelled there last year and he was far too good for L2). Looks solid backup. As you say, if Declan is fit he plays. Gordon looks plenty fine to play in the cups or as cover where needed.

On Senior, the only issue is maybe whether we think he's already better than that standard (I think it would be National League and below, Conference in old money)/would get more benefit from playing in the 23s and JPT (I think he could still play midweek 23s games but I don't he could play in the JPT).

Quick scan of the National League I'd think only Altrincham, Stockport and maybe Halifax would be doable.

That said it worked for Thommo lower down so what do I know.
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Prufrock » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:27 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:52 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:27 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:42 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:15 pm
Sully Kaikai got himself a club yet?
Aye, he's signed for Wanderers. Wycombe Wanderers.
I thought he might have landed a bigger gig but I suppose as a relegated side, they've a realistic chance of being one of the front runners this season.
They also put up a decent fight against relegation - after losing their first seven league games, they only went down on the last day (final nine: W5 D2 L2). Also very settled off-field and inspired by a beloved manager.
They're a funny one. Essentially, they're a bit shit. At best a mid-table League 1 team. They were very lucky to go up - an excellent start (ignited by edging past our kids, thanks Remi) before they started to drop, scraped into the play-offs on PPG and then won those.

But they're clearly very tight, fantastic manager and they somehow nearly stayed up in what would have genuinely been a ridiculously good acheivement.

They've also lost their two best players - top scorer Ikpeazu who has gone to Middlesbrough, and winger Onyedimna who scored their second againt the Junior Whites and has gone to Luton.

Their second top scorer last season was their left-back with 4.

They're probably the hardest team to pick where they'll end up next season. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see them anywhere between 1-24th.
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:30 am

Thommo's an interesting comparison. Senior has promise but he needs games, so I'd be tempted to look at a National League six-month loan to someone who'd play him. If he's absolutely smashing that, then maybe elevate to D4 in January, which is when he turns 20. He's still very young: because his birthday is after January 1, he still has three seasons left as an underage player. Plenty, plenty time to develop him – but as with Thommo, when he's good enough he's old enough.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Prufrock » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:37 am

I don't really disagree I just don't think he's at the age yet where he "needs" games, but the work-experience loan is a useful weapon in that you don't get stuck with the Foden/Sancho comparison - is it better to go and play, or train with higher quality players. You can do both! Get him to Chorley, he's lifted a trophy on the hallowed Victory Park turf, and Vermiglio can help him with his homework.
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:42 am

Prufrock wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:37 am
I don't really disagree I just don't think he's at the age yet where he "needs" games, but the work-experience loan is a useful weapon in that you don't get stuck with the Foden/Sancho comparison - is it better to go and play, or train with higher quality players. You can do both! Get him to Chorley, he's lifted a trophy on the hallowed Victory Park turf, and Vermiglio can help him with his homework.
Aye, all fair. Although I don't think he needs games because he's nearly too old, I think he needs games 'cos he's played f**k-all of them for 18 months... I guess that's what our new reserves side is for.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by The_Gun » Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:32 pm

At the risk of coming across a bit BWFCI, barring Santos our centre back rotation is really short, isn’t it?

George Johnston - 6ft 1
Will Aimson - 5ft 10
Alex Baptiste - 5ft 11
Adam Senior - 6ft

I’m not someone who thinks centre backs need to be monsters, but this does look to be a particularly undersized group, and if Santos misses games we’re going to have an extremely short back line.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:30 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:32 pm
At the risk of coming across a bit BWFCI, barring Santos our centre back rotation is really short, isn’t it?

George Johnston - 6ft 1
Will Aimson - 5ft 10
Alex Baptiste - 5ft 11
Adam Senior - 6ft

I’m not someone who thinks centre backs need to be monsters, but this does look to be a particularly undersized group, and if Santos misses games we’re going to have an extremely short back line.
Having seen them at Atherton then there is no way on this earth that Johnston is 6ft anything. Looked considerably smaller than Aimson to me. And smaller than Baptiste.

Aimson I'd say is bigger than 5'10 possibly he's 6ft or thereabouts.

Johnston if I had to guess I'd say 5'9.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:33 pm

How high does he jump? Coz Ricky sometimes starts at 8ft 10" and jumps to 5ft 4" in the oppo's box....

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Whitesince63 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:36 pm

There’s surely more to defending than just size but let’s not forget that apart from our central defenders we do also have the likes of Williams and Bako who have height and will help out at the back. I think with IE’s systems it’s more important that the defenders are good on the ball, since that’s where most of their play will be. I think strength and intelligence to mark up and stop runs is more important than plain height though obviously you’d like to have both. I think if it proves to be a problem, IE will resolve it in January but I don’t expect it to be.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:15 pm

Whitesince63 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:36 pm
There’s surely more to defending than just size but let’s not forget that apart from our central defenders we do also have the likes of Williams and Bako who have height and will help out at the back. I think with IE’s systems it’s more important that the defenders are good on the ball, since that’s where most of their play will be. I think strength and intelligence to mark up and stop runs is more important than plain height though obviously you’d like to have both. I think if it proves to be a problem, IE will resolve it in January but I don’t expect it to be.
Given that our second half run was built on going one up then defending for our lives I’m not convinced that being good on the ball is the key attribute especially given league one is going to be harder. Defending is key. Height doesn’t determine everything of course. But we don’t want a Tim Ream situation where you can look good but as soon as teams go direct you become jelly. I do think we lack a bit of height in the squad and at times Evatt seems to have said so too especially on his piece on MJ recently.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:15 am

A quick note a propos of nothing other than that Josh Earl has been shunted from No.3 to No.32 in PNE’s new squad numbers.

A left-back or left-sided centre-back who stands at 6’4” - a full seven inches taller than George Johnston, by BWFCi’s estimation - Earl spent last season on loan at Burton. The season before he’d been on loan at two third-tier clubs: Ipswich after us, because he’d been sent back when Hill overcleared the decks.

To be clear, I’m not saying there’s any link there (and he’s contracted to PNE until 2023, even if the new manager has numerically demoted him) but I liked the look of him; he can play two positions and has also played in a back three and a back four; and he’s tall. And 22. Sort of player we might have in mind.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:15 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:15 am
A quick note a propos of nothing other than that Josh Earl has been shunted from No.3 to No.32 in PNE’s new squad numbers.

A left-back or left-sided centre-back who stands at 6’4” - a full seven inches taller than George Johnston, by BWFCi’s estimation - Earl spent last season on loan at Burton. The season before he’d been on loan at two third-tier clubs: Ipswich after us, because he’d been sent back when Hill overcleared the decks.

To be clear, I’m not saying there’s any link there (and he’s contracted to PNE until 2023, even if the new manager has numerically demoted him) but I liked the look of him; he can play two positions and has also played in a back three and a back four; and he’s tall. And 22. Sort of player we might have in mind.
Like him too can't see him being an IE left back but surely could do a CB job? Sadly I think we're stocked there even if I feel the balance has drifted a little too far one way for my liking.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by boltonboris » Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:30 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:19 am
Completely agree with you both on Gordon. He's got his head down and improved (and full back is easier than wing back where you have to be exceptional. Only really Kioso excelled there last year and he was far too good for L2). Looks solid backup. As you say, if Declan is fit he plays. Gordon looks plenty fine to play in the cups or as cover where needed.

On Senior, the only issue is maybe whether we think he's already better than that standard (I think it would be National League and below, Conference in old money)/would get more benefit from playing in the 23s and JPT (I think he could still play midweek 23s games but I don't he could play in the JPT).

Quick scan of the National League I'd think only Altrincham, Stockport and maybe Halifax would be doable.

That said it worked for Thommo lower down so what do I know.
We also only saw Liam Gordon when we played that horrific back 3/5 system and he was woefully exposed - Constantly caught with players behind him, but in a 4 he may excel
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Prufrock » Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:37 pm

Aye, agree, that's what I was trying to get at in the first para. We were asking them to do basically two jobs. Kioso was good enough to do it, but he was far too good for L2 full stop. Gordon might be good enough to play in a 4 even if he wasn't superhuman enough to pull off playing without anyone in front of him.

He was ineffective going forward, and out of position going back.
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:22 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:30 pm

We also only saw Liam Gordon when we played that horrific back 3/5 system and he was woefully exposed - Constantly caught with players behind him, but in a 4 he may excel
Indeed. Let us not forget that everybody's end-of-season poster boy was the worst player to wear the shirt since Cid in that system.
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:02 pm

I must say, I'm very much looking forward to seeing the boy George Johnston play. :shock:
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