Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:03 pm

^ I hope so. Frees up a much needed place and hopefully he does well for them as a Santos Mk II
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:32 am

Club twitter confirms Greenidge gone to Barnet on season-long loan, which will take him to the end of his contract (unless they send him back beforehand).

By my reckoning that leaves us with 21* overage outfielders, one under the expected (but still unconfirmed) EFL squad size limit. Still expecting others to leave, specifically Crawford, Comley and Liam Edwards, unless they can suddenly dazzle in a rapidly dwindling pre-season (two "first-team" friendlies left, season starts in 2.5 wks).

*I previously had Amaechi down as overage, but he was born in 2001 and thus, well, isn't.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:38 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:32 am
Club twitter confirms Greenidge gone to Barnet on season-long loan, which will take him to the end of his contract (unless they send him back beforehand).

By my reckoning that leaves us with 21* overage outfielders, one under the expected (but still unconfirmed) EFL squad size limit. Still expecting others to leave, specifically Crawford, Comley and Liam Edwards, unless they can suddenly dazzle in a rapidly dwindling pre-season (two "first-team" friendlies left, season starts in 2.5 wks).

*I previously had Amaechi down as overage, but he was born in 2001 and thus, well, isn't.
Yeah that's not bad. Room to add one more and some others who clearly are going to be shown the door if possible.

Ameachi injury may precipitate an inwards move.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:11 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:38 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:32 am
Club twitter confirms Greenidge gone to Barnet on season-long loan, which will take him to the end of his contract (unless they send him back beforehand).

By my reckoning that leaves us with 21* overage outfielders, one under the expected (but still unconfirmed) EFL squad size limit. Still expecting others to leave, specifically Crawford, Comley and Liam Edwards, unless they can suddenly dazzle in a rapidly dwindling pre-season (two "first-team" friendlies left, season starts in 2.5 wks).

*I previously had Amaechi down as overage, but he was born in 2001 and thus, well, isn't.
Yeah that's not bad. Room to add one more and some others who clearly are going to be shown the door if possible.

Ameachi injury may precipitate an inwards move.
I also wonder whether there's the sniff of a chance for Crawford. Now, I can immediately sense hackles and heckles, but bear with me a mo.

I've said a few times that we need another No.10 option, preferably one proven in the third tier, given Sarce's reduced effectiveness in previous seasons at this level. (For clarity, this is not me picking on Sarce or saying he'll definitely fail; I'd just like more options than we currently have.)

Last time we were in this division, we were rubbish. But Ali got five assists in 12 games. True, he was on set-pieces – but we keep saying we need someone good on set-pieces. Are we missing an obvious option?

And yes, I know Ali was deeply frustrating last season. I acknowledge there is a chance that he'll never be the same again after his knee injury, although that sort of career-ending (single) injury is much less the case than it was 20 years ago.

It's worth noting, though, that Ali exited Evatt's team just after the switch from the fruitless 352 to 4231, surely a formation that better suits him (as it did under Hill). We went to a back four for the last half-hour of the home game against Crawley, in which Ali was an unused sub, then started it at Exeter, where he came on for 19 minutes; at home to Cheltenham, where he came on for 23; and at Tranmere, where he started and was subbed in a day remembered for the awfulness of Delaney and the refereeing. That was perhaps the season's nadir and Ali – after being an unused sub again at home to Orient, the win that started The Run – was shunted off to Tranmere, which no man deserves.

Seems to me that Ali better suits a 4231, with wingers running in front of him, than a 352 in which – even, or especially, if he is the nominal "10" slightly further forward - he either has to wait for wingbacks to trundle up or play fairly straight alley-balls (Ali-balls, heh) to the two strikers. Surely easier to picture him switching and releasing Dapo and Isgrove, or similar, to stretch a defence. It's really not hard to imagine MJ Williams snaffling possession and pinging the ball into Ali's feet, for the Scot to immediately knock it wide and suddenly within two seconds we've transitioned from defence to attack.

Might not work, of course. He might be affected by that injury, or he might not like Evatt (although he quickly signed for him). And Ali being injured in pre-season doesn't help – not only for staking his claim in friendlies, but also Downloading all that Content. But maybe, just maybe, we're giving up a little too prematurely on a man who might just be an answer - even if as a sub, an option, an existing payroller with a reasonable skillset.

We will, as ever, see.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:16 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:11 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:38 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:32 am
Club twitter confirms Greenidge gone to Barnet on season-long loan, which will take him to the end of his contract (unless they send him back beforehand).

By my reckoning that leaves us with 21* overage outfielders, one under the expected (but still unconfirmed) EFL squad size limit. Still expecting others to leave, specifically Crawford, Comley and Liam Edwards, unless they can suddenly dazzle in a rapidly dwindling pre-season (two "first-team" friendlies left, season starts in 2.5 wks).

*I previously had Amaechi down as overage, but he was born in 2001 and thus, well, isn't.
Yeah that's not bad. Room to add one more and some others who clearly are going to be shown the door if possible.

Ameachi injury may precipitate an inwards move.
I also wonder whether there's the sniff of a chance for Crawford. Now, I can immediately sense hackles and heckles, but bear with me a mo.

I've said a few times that we need another No.10 option, preferably one proven in the third tier, given Sarce's reduced effectiveness in previous seasons at this level. (For clarity, this is not me picking on Sarce or saying he'll definitely fail; I'd just like more options than we currently have.)

Last time we were in this division, we were rubbish. But Ali got five assists in 12 games. True, he was on set-pieces – but we keep saying we need someone good on set-pieces. Are we missing an obvious option?

And yes, I know Ali was deeply frustrating last season. I acknowledge there is a chance that he'll never be the same again after his knee injury, although that sort of career-ending (single) injury is much less the case than it was 20 years ago.

It's worth noting, though, that Ali exited Evatt's team just after the switch from the fruitless 352 to 4231, surely a formation that better suits him (as it did under Hill). We went to a back four for the last half-hour of the home game against Crawley, in which Ali was an unused sub, then started it at Exeter, where he came on for 19 minutes; at home to Cheltenham, where he came on for 23; and at Tranmere, where he started and was subbed in a day remembered for the awfulness of Delaney and the refereeing. That was perhaps the season's nadir and Ali – after being an unused sub again at home to Orient, the win that started The Run – was shunted off to Tranmere, which no man deserves.

Seems to me that Ali better suits a 4231, with wingers running in front of him, than a 352 in which – even, or especially, if he is the nominal "10" slightly further forward - he either has to wait for wingbacks to trundle up or play fairly straight alley-balls (Ali-balls, heh) to the two strikers. Surely easier to picture him switching and releasing Dapo and Isgrove, or similar, to stretch a defence. It's really not hard to imagine MJ Williams snaffling possession and pinging the ball into Ali's feet, for the Scot to immediately knock it wide and suddenly within two seconds we've transitioned from defence to attack.

Might not work, of course. He might be affected by that injury, or he might not like Evatt (although he quickly signed for him). And Ali being injured in pre-season doesn't help – not only for staking his claim in friendlies, but also Downloading all that Content. But maybe, just maybe, we're giving up a little too prematurely on a man who might just be an answer - even if as a sub, an option, an existing payroller with a reasonable skillset.

We will, as ever, see.
Crawford doesn't solve any of our issues. Technical but no power or presence. Doesn't score goals.

So for me we need a different type of number 10 and the more I look at the numbers the more I'm certain of this.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by truewhite15 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:20 pm

I think Crawford's card has already been marked, rightly or wrongly. Not a single minute played in any of the four pre-season games thus far - unless he's suffering from the same Covid issues that have inhibited Politic's and Doyle's involvement, I'd say he's pretty much done.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:34 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:16 pm
Crawford doesn't solve any of our issues. Technical but no power or presence. Doesn't score goals.

So for me we need a different type of number 10 and the more I look at the numbers the more I'm certain of this.
Oh I didn't expect to persuade you, given your almost visceral hatred of Crawford last season – although TBF you did hate Evatt arguably even more so evidently you do believe in the possibility of redemption. :D

You know I fully agree that we need more "goal involvements" (goals and assists) from our front four. I don't think Ali scores 10 goals a season but I think it's possible that he directly assists 10 and provides the same in "hockey assists" (the pass before the pass before the goal).

I also think that if you want a No.10 with power, presence and goals, you might be waiting a wee while.

truewhite15 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:20 pm
I think Crawford's card has already been marked, rightly or wrongly. Not a single minute played in any of the four pre-season games thus far - unless he's suffering from the same Covid issues that have inhibited Politic's and Doyle's involvement, I'd say he's pretty much done.
He's injured, Evatt said last week:
"He’s had a calf injury that he had picked up over the summer, so we are waiting for him to come back and train. He isn’t ready yet.

Doors for all players are never shut really. Obviously as you can see it is really competitive, so then it boils down to player decision. We're never going to boot anybody out of the football club, it's not the way I do things, but if players want regular first team football and we can’t guarantee them this, we won’t be standing in people’s way.
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... ture-club/

In April, Evatt said this:
Ali’s still got a future at this club. He’s contracted for next season and when he comes back in the summer, hopefully we will be a League One club and it’s down to Ali to get his head down and make sure he’s back in our plans and in the team. Everyone will be given that fair opportunity and a clean slate. It doesn’t matter really what’s happened this season. This season in the summer will be forgotten and it’s time to move on. You can’t stand still in football and you can’t dwell on the past too much, it’s about the future. Ali will have an opportunity to come back and impress.
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... rm-future/

Could all just be lip-service, and I still expect him to leave. But it just struck me that maybe, just maybe...

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:00 pm

Tricky one. I'd be happy with a 2018/9 Crawford in the squad. But it is also correct that if you're looking for "power" and "presence", then that's not Ali. I'm not sure the latter fit's Evatt's view of a "footballer". We signed MJ and Lee who shored up our defense, but they don't do it from a "power" and "presence" perspective, more languid precision and timing (albeit MJ isn't afraid of diving into a tackle)...

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:03 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:34 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:16 pm
Crawford doesn't solve any of our issues. Technical but no power or presence. Doesn't score goals.

So for me we need a different type of number 10 and the more I look at the numbers the more I'm certain of this.
Oh I didn't expect to persuade you, given your almost visceral hatred of Crawford last season – although TBF you did hate Evatt arguably even more so evidently you do believe in the possibility of redemption. :D

You know I fully agree that we need more "goal involvements" (goals and assists) from our front four. I don't think Ali scores 10 goals a season but I think it's possible that he directly assists 10 and provides the same in "hockey assists" (the pass before the pass before the goal).

I also think that if you want a No.10 with power, presence and goals, you might be waiting a wee while.

truewhite15 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:20 pm
I think Crawford's card has already been marked, rightly or wrongly. Not a single minute played in any of the four pre-season games thus far - unless he's suffering from the same Covid issues that have inhibited Politic's and Doyle's involvement, I'd say he's pretty much done.
He's injured, Evatt said last week:
"He’s had a calf injury that he had picked up over the summer, so we are waiting for him to come back and train. He isn’t ready yet.

Doors for all players are never shut really. Obviously as you can see it is really competitive, so then it boils down to player decision. We're never going to boot anybody out of the football club, it's not the way I do things, but if players want regular first team football and we can’t guarantee them this, we won’t be standing in people’s way.
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... ture-club/

In April, Evatt said this:
Ali’s still got a future at this club. He’s contracted for next season and when he comes back in the summer, hopefully we will be a League One club and it’s down to Ali to get his head down and make sure he’s back in our plans and in the team. Everyone will be given that fair opportunity and a clean slate. It doesn’t matter really what’s happened this season. This season in the summer will be forgotten and it’s time to move on. You can’t stand still in football and you can’t dwell on the past too much, it’s about the future. Ali will have an opportunity to come back and impress.
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... rm-future/

Could all just be lip-service, and I still expect him to leave. But it just struck me that maybe, just maybe...
I don’t recall any visceral hatred from myself to Crawford - he frustrated me in bucketloads though. Was delighted when he signed in the summer. He was poor last season, very very poor and not just here either. But I don’t think he fits what Evatt wants or needs. He doesn’t work hard enough and hasn’t got enough bravery in my view to fit. He works or did Pre injury in a side geared to transition and hitting on the break. He was great in Hills side with Verlinden and Dodoo and the way we played. But don’t think he fits IE style at all. And he was poor for Tranmere too which suggests he’s still a way off being back to his best.

Darcy has for me got to be ahead in the pecking order as it’s time he got some games given the work he’s clearly put in to getting fitter and stronger.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by The_Gun » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:05 pm

Well reasoned analysis regarding Crawford, DSB. I have to say I was very happy when we re-signed him prior to last season and clearly there’s a League One player somewhere in there. Whether he has the requisite pressing ability to satisfy Evatt, I’m not sure, but it would have been nice to see him given an opportunity this pre-season. My strong suspicion is that if any other clubs show an interest he’ll be gone.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Prufrock » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:30 pm

I'm not sure there is anymore. DSB is correct to say a lot of formerly career-ending injuries no longer are, but plenty either don't come back the same, or take a long time.

As others have said he was a bright spark in the dark days and I was pleased he signed again, but he was woeful last year. As DSB says I think he needs wingers outside him but I'd be surprised (though happy) if he made it back here
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by The_Gun » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:32 pm

I think a move to a team where he’d be a key player (perhaps League 2 or in Scotland) would suit all parties best. He’s probably on reasonable wages here, so getting him off the books might allow us to bring in another decent player.

It’s a shame he’s injured, as a few decent pre-season performances might have encouraged other clubs to come in for him.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:40 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:32 pm
I think a move to a team where he’d be a key player (perhaps League 2 or in Scotland) would suit all parties best. He’s probably on reasonable wages here, so getting him off the books might allow us to bring in another decent player.

It’s a shame he’s injured, as a few decent pre-season performances might have encouraged other clubs to come in for him.
Had he had a chance pre season then he might have forced himself back into the reckoning. But once players have a serious injury then seem to have subsequent injuries often then you start to question if they are just on that sort of continual treadmill.

No doubt a move is best for all parties but the wage is probably a barrier to this - will have takers but I suspect we'll still be paying the majority.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:47 pm

All my thoughts on Crawford are pretty well summed up by everyone there. He once had something at this level. Could the stars align so he could offer something again? Even at last years form he'd still be taking better corners and free kicks than we're currently doing!

Joe Dodoos name interests me more. I liked him. He's still not fixed up and can play both the central and wide attacking role. He must surely be wanting to put down roots somewhere by now. I imagine he'll have a few options too. Be nice if we were one of them imo
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by The_Gun » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:58 pm

If Amaechi’s done his metatarsal, what’s that, two months? If so are we likely to try and send him back to Hamburg?

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:08 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:47 pm
All my thoughts on Crawford are pretty well summed up by everyone there. He once had something at this level. Could the stars align so he could offer something again? Even at last years form he'd still be taking better corners and free kicks than we're currently doing!

Joe Dodoos name interests me more. I liked him. He's still not fixed up and can play both the central and wide attacking role. He must surely be wanting to put down roots somewhere by now. I imagine he'll have a few options too. Be nice if we were one of them imo
I found it sorta interesting that when people didn't get anywhere near a Crawford corner, it was Crawford putting it in the wrong place, but when they didn't get near a Maddison corner it was the players not understanding the art of Zen from a proper footballer...

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:54 pm

All fair comments on Crawford, glad it sparked debate. Interesting that BWFCi mentions rapid transitions because I get the feeling Evatt wants these when we regain possession; even if he wants a lot more ball than previous managers, we still need to act quickly when we get it back. Think of the managers he idolises, Pep and Bielsa, and their teams transition from defence to attack with absolutely no standing on ceremony. But I do agree with The Gun's note that he may not have the pressing energy the gaffer demands. Again, maybe he could have it if used for the last 20 minutes? Not ideal but as BWFCi notes, we may not find anybody to pay all his wage, and if not, we may decide to keep him around.

Joe Dodoo is an interesting idea. At this level he's bagged 11 goals and 10 assists in 71 games, but his record is slightly better than that sounds because he's only averaged 56 minutes in those 71 games. All in he's played 3,994 minutes so that's a goal scored every 363 minutes (four games) and an assist every 400 (four and a half), a goal *or* an assist every 190 (two games).

For comparison, at this level Doyle has a goal every 180 minutes, a goal or assist every 136.
Delf: goal every 419 min, goal or assist every 321 min.
Bakayoko: goal every 380 min, goal or assist every 245 min.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:23 pm

Quick visual update of squad size:
.
BW 22 july.jpeg
BW 22 july.jpeg (53.59 KiB) Viewed 928 times
.
I've "promoted" Liam Gordon from potentially surplus to being Declan's back-up; while I still think we might strengthen there, Liam (who is overage as of this season) done himself no harm with some strong pre-season showings; last week Evatt said “Liam has hit the ground running this pre-season and he has done great in the games. The proof will now be against the better opposition where he we will be tested more, defensively, and will also have to be a bit more creative.” And sure enough, after beating Preston, Evatt told the club YouTube channel “I thought Liam Gordon was absolutely outstanding. I thought be was brilliant today, his best game in a Bolton shirt.”

To reiterate, Amaechi is officially underage and thus doesn't counted against proposed limit of 22 overage outfielders. Xav therefore joins a bunch of young bucks (Politic, Darcy) hoping to burst into what is currently our weakest area, certainly in terms of overage players: attacking midfield. Helpfully for them, that position is also the one where energetically enthusiastic subs are perhaps most likely to change the game – but I still suspect we may see a senior signing or two; we currently have one overage space, which could expand if Crawford, Comley and/or Liam Edwards find gainful employment elsewhere.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by Prufrock » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:11 pm

This comes with the caveat that I think a closing reading of managers comments isn't usually much use, but I noticed it so might as well share it (how very millennial of me).

The quote above on Gordon after the Preston game was in response to question about whether/how much he was impressed by the young lads like Gordon and Darcy. From memory young lads (general) got praise, and there's the quote above on Gordon but nothing on Ronan.

Caveat repeated but if he was close I would've thought he might get a name check too.

My reckon is that now we're trying to shift players out to free up wages and aiming for a couple of loanees later in the window.
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:57 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:11 pm
This comes with the caveat that I think a closing reading of managers comments isn't usually much use, but I noticed it so might as well share it (how very millennial of me).

The quote above on Gordon after the Preston game was in response to question about whether/how much he was impressed by the young lads like Gordon and Darcy. From memory young lads (general) got praise, and there's the quote above on Gordon but nothing on Ronan.

Caveat repeated but if he was close I would've thought he might get a name check too.

My reckon is that now we're trying to shift players out to free up wages and aiming for a couple of loanees later in the window.
He got his name check after Atherton.

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