Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

[GhostoftheBok]

There are 6 or so teams who are genuine contenders with squads significantly better than half the division. We are not one of those 6.

We don't have many players where I look at them and think "You have no business being in a top half League One outfit", so by that standard I think we've the basis of a decent squad. At the same time, we don't have many where I think "You can obviously play at a higher level."

Again, I got a bit wordy with this one and deleted it - ultimately we have a decent squad but not enough first 11 quality to take us up. Part of that is that the summer signings have had nearly no impact as yet. If we can get a couple of really good players in January and some of those summer lads step up we'll be fine.

For now it's about steadying the ship over the next few games and making sure heads don't drop. If we can do that until January we can have a real go after that.

[Worthy4England]

There are 6 or so teams who are genuine contenders with squads significantly better than half the division. We are not one of those 6.

We don't have many players where I look at them and think "You have no business being in a top half League One outfit", so by that standard I think we've the basis of a decent squad. At the same time, we don't have many where I think "You can obviously play at a higher level."

Again, I got a bit wordy with this one and deleted it - ultimately we have a decent squad but not enough first 11 quality to take us up. Part of that is that the summer signings have had nearly no impact as yet. If we can get a couple of really good players in January and some of those summer lads step up we'll be fine.

For now it's about steadying the ship over the next few games and making sure heads don't drop. If we can do that until January we can have a real go after that.

I dunno what folks are expecting. I think if they're expecting 4th to top division in three seasons then that's not done often. Evatt has a different style to Allardyce, neither are a guarantee of success. And they're not a panacea. There ain't anything going on here that's new or unique. Both and more have been successful. I'm fine with a mid-table whilst we continue to build at this stage...

[GhostoftheBok]

I dunno what folks are expecting. I think if they're expecting 4th to top division in three seasons then that's not done often. Evatt has a different style to Allardyce, neither are a guarantee of success. And they're not a panacea. There ain't anything going on here that's new or unique. Both and more have been successful. I'm fine with a mid-table whilst we continue to build at this stage...

Plenty of Bolton fans expect any league that isn't the Prem to be a walkover for us. That won't change. When we were relegated it was unacceptable that they were not dominating the Championship. Then unacceptable we were not dominating League One. The genuine crisis has meant a lot of fans have chilled out a bit and are realistic about this process; but you won't win everyone over. Some fans will always think badges should win games.

For myself, I am trying to judge what is needed by the standards the manager is setting for himself. If Evatt had set his stall out as "we need to stay up" then I'd say the business we did in the summer was pretty good. Evatt has said he wants to be the best in the division this season and that means there is a lot to do.

All of us would like to go up this season. Equally, I think almost all of us will be fine if this season just sees us stabilise ourselves in League One. Given that promotion is what the manager wants, though, we need to look at what we need to achieve that.

[nicholaldo]

I honestly think there's a considerable gap in talent between ourselves and the best that will take, at a minimum, two transfer windows to bridge. Should Evatt manage to do it in one I'd be seriously impressed.

He might not need to - there have been plenty of examples of teams where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts - but in terms of pure footballing ability I feel we're a distance behind.

[GhostoftheBok]

I honestly think there's a considerable gap in talent between ourselves and the best that will take, at a minimum, two transfer windows to bridge. Should Evatt manage to do it in one I'd be seriously impressed.

He might not need to - there have been plenty of examples of teams where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts - but in terms of pure footballing ability I feel we're a distance behind.

I go backwards and forwards on this.

I do agree with you wholeheartedly, but at the same time I think that losing John and Jones against Wigan and Plymouth made a vast difference. That back four basically had 3 youth players in it and we had a 'keeper with one season of league football in him. It's asking a lot for a team like ours to go out and play confident, flowing football against one of the best sides in the division with that at the back. For me, if Jones and John start that Wigan game we don't see those hidings against Wigan and Plymouth and we win the Gillingham game.

That's lacking depth, rather than us absolutely lacking talent. Wigan's best 11 is better than our best 11, but not 4-0 better. It's a bridgeable gap.

We knew in the summer that this could happen. We were replacing two vastly experienced players with a centreback who'd never played a full season and keeper with one league season under his belt. We didn't get any depth in at fullback. We failed to sign the striker we needed and our potentially game-changing winger got hurt.

Despite all that, I think we did okay and I like most of the players we got in. They need time and we need to add quality, but we can compete if we do.

[Worthy4England]

I dunno what folks are expecting. I think if they're expecting 4th to top division in three seasons then that's not done often. Evatt has a different style to Allardyce, neither are a guarantee of success. And they're not a panacea. There ain't anything going on here that's new or unique. Both and more have been successful. I'm fine with a mid-table whilst we continue to build at this stage...

Plenty of Bolton fans expect any league that isn't the Prem to be a walkover for us. That won't change. When we were relegated it was unacceptable that they were not dominating the Championship. Then unacceptable we were not dominating League One. The genuine crisis has meant a lot of fans have chilled out a bit and are realistic about this process; but you won't win everyone over. Some fans will always think badges should win games.

For myself, I am trying to judge what is needed by the standards the manager is setting for himself. If Evatt had set his stall out as "we need to stay up" then I'd say the business we did in the summer was pretty good. Evatt has said he wants to be the best in the division this season and that means there is a lot to do.

All of us would like to go up this season. Equally, I think almost all of us will be fine if this season just sees us stabilise ourselves in League One. Given that promotion is what the manager wants, though, we need to look at what we need to achieve that.

That's fine, but there ain't many managers going to come out and say "our target is stay up and have a decidedly average sort of season." Admittedly, Evatt doesn't pull any punches around where he wants us to be

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

That's fine, but there ain't many managers going to come out and say "our target is stay up and have a decidedly average sort of season." Admittedly, Evatt doesn't pull any punches around where he wants us to be

There is, I think, a middle ground. The majority of managers hedge their bets; they don't demand a cup win or title triumph, but say "We'd like to be in the mix" or "We're going to give it a good go" or somesuch homespun waffle. Most managers, after being promoted, will talk about "establishing themselves in what is a very difficult division with some huge clubs" but "we'll give it a good go and try to make the fans proud," etc and so on.

Evatt? Nah. He expects to win every game, every competition. And that way only disappointment lies.

I don't buy the #narrative that him saying we're the best team in the league makes the players implode. From Stelling downwards they all laughed at him this time last year for saying that, and from January onwards we smashed it - if the season were a month longer we'd have won the league. Despite the pre-match sh!t-stirring by journos with jobs to do and clicks to chase, I don't think we lost to Wigan because of overconfidence, that's a simplistic stick to beat him with, I think we lost because we can't defend very well.

Evatt regularly quotes his heroes, but I'd be interested to know if Pep Guardiola or Marcelo Bielsa ever say they expect to be No.1. I'd suggest they don't. I get that he's trying to build his players' confidence up, but in doing so he's making himself (and our club) a hostage to fortune. He doesn't have to spend every interview sounding like the angry older brother of the Fast Show's "In't milk brilliant?" character.

[GhostoftheBok]

Interesting to see Anthony Evans getting on well at Bristol. He's clearly too good for that league and is only on a one year deal. He's from the North West, has the right profile for an Evatt signing and would offer things we need in the squad.

[Worthy4England]

That's fine, but there ain't many managers going to come out and say "our target is stay up and have a decidedly average sort of season." Admittedly, Evatt doesn't pull any punches around where he wants us to be

There is, I think, a middle ground. The majority of managers hedge their bets; they don't demand a cup win or title triumph, but say "We'd like to be in the mix" or "We're going to give it a good go" or somesuch homespun waffle. Most managers, after being promoted, will talk about "establishing themselves in what is a very difficult division with some huge clubs" but "we'll give it a good go and try to make the fans proud," etc and so on.

Evatt? Nah. He expects to win every game, every competition. And that way only disappointment lies.

I don't buy the #narrative that him saying we're the best team in the league makes the players implode. From Stelling downwards they all laughed at him this time last year for saying that, and from January onwards we smashed it - if the season were a month longer we'd have won the league. Despite the pre-match sh!t-stirring by journos with jobs to do and clicks to chase, I don't think we lost to Wigan because of overconfidence, that's a simplistic stick to beat him with, I think we lost because we can't defend very well.

Evatt regularly quotes his heroes, but I'd be interested to know if Pep Guardiola or Marcelo Bielsa ever say they expect to be No.1. I'd suggest they don't. I get that he's trying to build his players' confidence up, but in doing so he's making himself (and our club) a hostage to fortune. He doesn't have to spend every interview sounding like the angry older brother of the Fast Show's "In't milk brilliant?" character.

Agree Barnetto. I don't think over confidence was the problem v Wigan, either. Sure, in private, I think we'd all tell a team that on their day they could beat anyone in the same Division and I doubt that players are currently crossing the whitewash believing they're in for a belting.

I don't even have a major problem with him having a personal goal of winning every time we go on the pitch. Even if you're playing dominos in the Pub you probably want to win, even if the price of not doing so is much lower. It's the point of sport. Be the best, beat the opposition. But it certainly takes more than desire.

It starts to sound thin very quickly when you're losing. And he certainly won't always have the luxury of changing 5/6 of his starters in January...at that point he'll need to tell them the secret of how to stop leaking goals...none of the decent teams are decent because they've sorted one end of the pitch and not the other and at the moment we have neither sorted but occasionally show we can score more than they did...

[GhostoftheBok]

Ghost, you handsome bastard. Tell me more about Hartigan.

Williams is so good for us for the same reason Campo and Hierro were. Their lack of mobility isn't an issue if they don't have to move much. Hartigan is more mobile, so he has the potential to work for us in more roles; but he won't do Williams' job quite as well. He's not as tall and he's not as strong (though he's no lightweight, from what I've seen). I've not seen enough of him to really comment (some at Newport and 3 games this season, including vs us), but from talking to people and those viewings I suspect he will develop into a more rounded player than Williams.

As you said in the other thread, in an ideal world we'd get in a goal-threat 10 and a pivot. If Hartigan is the pivot they are targeting I am fine with that. He may or may not be good enough in the end, but targeting promising young players is the way we have to go.

Some rumblings north of the border that we are interested in Jamie McGrath as the 10, but I doubt we'll get near him. There are some good players (for this level) available in Scotland, though.

[GhostoftheBok]

I've been having a bit of a think about what we could do in January to get us where we need to be and, to be honest, there's more "available" talent than I initially expected out there - especially for the supposed mould we have.

There's Brandon Barker at Rangers, whose career has fallen off a cliff. He went on loan to Oxford for the second half a last season and helped get them into the play offs. He is only a year older than Dapo and arguably more talented.

There's Lewis Baker who is still rotting at Chelsea. Loads of ability, went on loan to Turkey and apparently performed well. Reports have him as desperate for an opportunity in England.

There's Josh Emmanuel who we all know well from his previous spell and would definitely improve competition at right back.

Tony Watt is banging goals in for Motherwell and finally looking like he might fulfil some of his potential. Another looking for an English club.

Antony Evans is somehow in League Two and presumably knows Jones from their time at Everton. He's far too good for that level.

Then you've got lads like Jamie Allen, Billy Mitchell (unlikely), Antony Hartigan etc. There's the "I can't see them coming here" remote possibilities like Mallik Wilks and Jamie McGrath. Or you can just try and cheat and take Michael Smith off Rotherham in the hope he keeps banging them in in that division even though he doesn't suit the system, as we did with Doyle.

You've even got more "Dapo route" signings, like Tariq Uwakwe.

There's a lot of talent (by the standards of this level and our squad) that's going to be available in January. If we have a bad window it won't be because there are no players going.

[The_Gun]

I've been having a bit of a think about what we could do in January to get us where we need to be and, to be honest, there's more "available" talent than I initially expected out there - especially for the supposed mould we have.

There's Brandon Barker at Rangers, whose career has fallen off a cliff. He went on loan to Oxford for the second half a last season and helped get them into the play offs. He is only a year older than Dapo and arguably more talented.

There's Lewis Baker who is still rotting at Chelsea. Loads of ability, went on loan to Turkey and apparently performed well. Reports have him as desperate for an opportunity in England.

There's Josh Emmanuel who we all know well from his previous spell and would definitely improve competition at right back.

Tony Watt is banging goals in for Motherwell and finally looking like he might fulfil some of his potential. Another looking for an English club.

Antony Evans is somehow in League Two and presumably knows Jones from their time at Everton. He's far too good for that level.

Then you've got lads like Jamie Allen, Billy Mitchell (unlikely), Antony Hartigan etc. There's the "I can't see them coming here" remote possibilities like Mallik Wilks and Jamie McGrath. Or you can just try and cheat and take Michael Smith off Rotherham in the hope he keeps banging them in in that division even though he doesn't suit the system, as we did with Doyle.

You've even got more "Dapo route" signings, like Tariq Uwakwe.

There's a lot of talent (by the standards of this level and our squad) that's going to be available in January. If we have a bad window it won't be because there are no players going.

Are you assuming we'll be able to get all these lads on frees? I don't think there's much chance we'll be paying transfer fees in Jan.

[GhostoftheBok]

Are you assuming we'll be able to get all these lads on frees? I don't think there's much chance we'll be paying transfer fees in Jan.

All of them have their deals expiring this summer. Most on that list have either had it announced in some form that they are leaving or been told to find a new club.

Ultimately it's not about those specific players, that's just a snapshot of the sort of players that might be available to us (some very ambitious, some very realistic). We should be doing decent business.

[BWFC_Insane]

I've been having a bit of a think about what we could do in January to get us where we need to be and, to be honest, there's more "available" talent than I initially expected out there - especially for the supposed mould we have.

There's Brandon Barker at Rangers, whose career has fallen off a cliff. He went on loan to Oxford for the second half a last season and helped get them into the play offs. He is only a year older than Dapo and arguably more talented.

There's Lewis Baker who is still rotting at Chelsea. Loads of ability, went on loan to Turkey and apparently performed well. Reports have him as desperate for an opportunity in England.

There's Josh Emmanuel who we all know well from his previous spell and would definitely improve competition at right back.

Tony Watt is banging goals in for Motherwell and finally looking like he might fulfil some of his potential. Another looking for an English club.

Antony Evans is somehow in League Two and presumably knows Jones from their time at Everton. He's far too good for that level.

Then you've got lads like Jamie Allen, Billy Mitchell (unlikely), Antony Hartigan etc. There's the "I can't see them coming here" remote possibilities like Mallik Wilks and Jamie McGrath. Or you can just try and cheat and take Michael Smith off Rotherham in the hope he keeps banging them in in that division even though he doesn't suit the system, as we did with Doyle.

You've even got more "Dapo route" signings, like Tariq Uwakwe.

There's a lot of talent (by the standards of this level and our squad) that's going to be available in January. If we have a bad window it won't be because there are no players going.

Apropos of not much a player who has impressed me when I've seen him this season is Twine at MK Dons. Not out of contract so I assume a non starter and not suggesting him as a signing but a midfield player who gets goals and assists. And seems to be getting better and is only 22. For me the SORT we need. Someone proven at this level but on the up.

[GhostoftheBok]

Apropos of not much a player who has impressed me when I've seen him this season is Twine at MK Dons. Not out of contract so I assume a non starter and not suggesting him as a signing but a midfield player who gets goals and assists. And seems to be getting better and is only 22. For me the SORT we need. Someone proven at this level but on the up.

Couldn't agree more on Twine and I believe (not gospel) that we did want him, but the compensation fee due to his age killed it very early on. Anyone under 21 has to be released by their club or we have to give them cash (as I am sure you already knew) and obviously that was us out.

MK Dons would want at least a couple of million for him now, so he's not for us.

Tony Evans and Tariq Uwakwe could both be that "sort" for us, but due to the nature of the academy system they both have less first team experience than Twine. Evans is on a one year contract in League Two to try and earn a deal higher up the pyramid and Uwakwe was supposed to go to Sheff Wed, but saw his deal fall through.

Again, though, it's all make believe isn't it, in terms of specific names? The club will already have been talking to players and clubs for some time. We just have to hope they have the ambition and the sales pitch to get us what we need.

[BWFC_Insane]

Apropos of not much a player who has impressed me when I've seen him this season is Twine at MK Dons. Not out of contract so I assume a non starter and not suggesting him as a signing but a midfield player who gets goals and assists. And seems to be getting better and is only 22. For me the SORT we need. Someone proven at this level but on the up.

Couldn't agree more on Twine and I believe (not gospel) that we did want him, but the compensation fee due to his age killed it very early on. Anyone under 21 has to be released by their club or we have to give them cash (as I am sure you already knew) and obviously that was us out.

MK Dons would want at least a couple of million for him now, so he's not for us.

Tony Evans and Tariq Uwakwe could both be that "sort" for us, but due to the nature of the academy system they both have less first team experience than Twine. Evans is on a one year contract in League Two to try and earn a deal higher up the pyramid and Uwakwe was supposed to go to Sheff Wed, but saw his deal fall through.

Again, though, it's all make believe isn't it, in terms of specific names? The club will already have been talking to players and clubs for some time. We just have to hope they have the ambition and the sales pitch to get us what we need.

Yeah the money is coming into sharp focus now. I mean a compensation fee for an U21 is peanuts - almost always peanuts. And if we were put off by that (and I've heard similar tales about players we wanted but couldn't afford) then we do have to be somewhat careful with expectations for January and beyond. The club has to be sustainable and we cannot overstretch so a plan needs to be there and I'm sure it is.

I know we went after Stockton early in the summer and what a deal that would have been even if it would have received little enthusiasm at the time. Again we're not signing Cole now but having watched him for Morecambe he's the SORT of striker I think we need. Its easier to identify TYPES harder to suggest specific options who might realistically be available to the club though.

[GhostoftheBok]

I think we were held back by the rules in the summer, rather than it being the fee that was the issue - but I'm not "ITK" as they used to say. I'm just going off knowing people at other clubs who were aware of our interest, I don't know anyone at Wanderers anymore.

I am also sure a plan is there. Not just for this next window, but for 3-4 windows to come (not necessarily just specific targets, but in how they are generating squad progression). The trouble is, if we end up in a crisis then long term planning will have to give way to the "now" and that can lead to errors. If we avoid a proper crisis and are still midtable or better by January then hopefully we can see some progress, without any panic.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think we were held back by the rules in the summer, rather than it being the fee that was the issue - but I'm not "ITK" as they used to say. I'm just going off knowing people at other clubs who were aware of our interest, I don't know anyone at Wanderers anymore.

I am also sure a plan is there. Not just for this next window, but for 3-4 windows to come (not necessarily just specific targets, but in how they are generating squad progression). The trouble is, if we end up in a crisis then long term planning will have to give way to the "now" and that can lead to errors. If we avoid a proper crisis and are still midtable or better by January then hopefully we can see some progress, without any panic.

Pretty sure we weren’t on embargo list over summer.

[GhostoftheBok]

Pretty sure we weren’t on embargo list over summer.

I think we still were when Twine's deal was being organised by MK Dons. It was agreed in May and signed in June, I think. Happy to be wrong, though.

[officer_dibble]

I do struggle with Stockton signing on again at Morecambe and not here, presumably sold on being the main man there (and it’s worked out for him).