PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

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PoTY - BWFC 2020/21 - Top 20 by appearances due to Poll Limit.

Poll ended at Mon May 31, 2021 1:12 pm

Ricardo Santos
15
54%
Nathan Delfouneso
0
No votes
Eoin Doyle
1
4%
Alex Baptiste
3
11%
Gethin Jones
0
No votes
Matt Gilks
5
18%
Antoni Sarcevic
1
4%
Lloyd Isgrove
0
No votes
Arthur Gnahoua
0
No votes
George Thomason
0
No votes
Alister Crawford
0
No votes
Declan John
0
No votes
MJ Williams
3
11%
Oladapo Afolayan
0
No votes
Kieran Lee
0
No votes
Ryan Delaney
0
No votes
Shaun Miller
0
No votes
Andrew Tutte
0
No votes
Harry Brockbank
0
No votes
Zak Elbouzedi
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 28

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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon May 10, 2021 2:41 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:38 pm
Santos for me, and comfortably. Not a lot to add to the reasons others have given. What a turnaround. From moving from the right to the middle of the back three he was immense in our mini run, and vital since Jan. Big part of us fixing set pieces too.
Interesting to note Gethin saying this weekend that they basically abandoned having him man-mark, so he can just attack the ball.

“We changed a few things defensively from corners, like Rico defending them and not marking anyone. It was little things like that which have worked out."

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... ns-season/

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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by Jeux sans frontiéres » Mon May 10, 2021 2:43 pm

Unpopular opinion time:

MJ Williams for me. Absolute rock. Shored up the back. Gave a creative outlet for the front. Broke up all play through the centre.

I would also argue that it was he whole gave Santos and Baps the platform to shine, knowing that the space in front of them was covered.
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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by Worthy4England » Mon May 10, 2021 3:01 pm

Jeux sans frontiéres wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:43 pm
Unpopular opinion time:

MJ Williams for me. Absolute rock. Shored up the back. Gave a creative outlet for the front. Broke up all play through the centre.

I would also argue that it was he whole gave Santos and Baps the platform to shine, knowing that the space in front of them was covered.
Suspect most picks from the regular first XI/XII/XIII would not be too unpopular - could make a case for a few of them mate. Gilks and MJ both immense.

First time in gawd know's how many years we've had 19 goal forward and it's not a "walkover" for them to win this poll...

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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon May 10, 2021 3:04 pm

Williams would be my player of half the season but I've got to give it to someone who's been here since August.

Bappers just shading out Santos. This time around we saw the class act that was at Blackpool all those years ago.
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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by Worthy4England » Mon May 10, 2021 3:24 pm

The half a season thing is interesting. Given we were 20th when most of 'em signed, I'd still vote for any of the above. It's not like we were 6th and just needed a little push over the line. Gilks didn't start playing until midway through November...

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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by knobpolisher » Mon May 10, 2021 3:37 pm

I've gone for Baptiste, his was a renaissance and I suspect Santos learnt an immense amount playing alongside him. Bit of a karate kid moment.
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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by Prufrock » Mon May 10, 2021 3:47 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:39 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:22 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:12 pm
Put it this way: Whoever wins whatever awards this year will deserve it a lot more than Tim F**king Ream.
To this day it blows my mind that there were Bolton fans who thought and one assumes still think he was good. Apparently poncing round and ducking out of challenges before carefully sliding across the touchline to make it look like you've been arsed is 'good'.
Oh mate, you wanna sit next to Prufrock eviscerating his performance. Perhaps also because he ended up there, it remains an abiding memory of Fulham: I can't even cross Putney Bridge without hearing Pru's increasingly strident disbelief in what we were watching. (If memory serves, this was the match when Dougie played him in defensive midfield, although the performance was so hapless he may as well have been stood in downtown Sheffield.)

Anyway, Ream was player of the year in 2013/14 and 2014/15, seasons in which we conceded a combined 127 league goals. It speaks volumes for the rest of the squad that a centre-back was nominated Tallest Dwarf.
Ha! I still shudder. It was indeed the game he played him in defensive midfield, and it was also his last game full stop. A 4-0 spanking that flattered us. A back 4, then a midfield 5 of Ream, Spearing, Pratley, Danns and Feeney (with Craig Davies reading a book on the half-way line). Dire, dire times. I can still see seared into my eyelids a snap-shot of that game where you could've thrown a large blanket over all 9 of those outfield players, all well within the width of our box, and Bryan Ruiz still danced through again. Awful.

I think the walk back through that park was when I talked off the ear off anyone who would listen about how Carlo Ancelotti reinventing Pirlo as deep-lying midfielder whose role was essentially creative was a piece of tactical genius whereas Dougie reinventing D-Pratz as a defensive number 10 was not. Lord above.

Ream was one of the all time bad uns. Though I still remember barking with laughter a couple of years later watching Fulham on MoTD. They conceded a goal that you thought *had* to be offside, the winger had run fully ten yards off the back of the full back to get in behind. Camera pans to show that dopey pr*ck just absolutely miles behind the rest of his back 4 for absolutely no reason at all playing him on.
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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by The_Gun » Mon May 10, 2021 3:51 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:38 pm
Santos for me, and comfortably. Not a lot to add to the reasons others have given. What a turnaround. From moving from the right to the middle of the back three he was immense in our mini run, and vital since Jan. Big part of us fixing set pieces too.

I can't pick between 4 for second place.

Gilks - agree with the good things. On the flip side, I think how good he has been has been exaggerated by how bad Crellin was. The bar was set low. I think he's been excellent in the run in but was pretty much "competent" from coming in until then. Two absolute howlers in a couple of weeks in March (Mansfield and??) but in games we ended up winning so perhaps the spotlight was lesser. I also at least partly blame him for us signing Crellin in the first place :D

Baptiste - again, what's been said. Not quite as impressive as Santos over the season but really really solid, clearly a good egg, been top.

Doyle - I worry about him a league up, I'm not sure his around game is up to it, but I'm a team that wasn't really prolific to get 19 goals is impressive. He was also one of the few who stood up to be counted in the bad runs, never hid, always worked his bollocks off.

Sarc - despite having one of the worst first touches I've ever seen no-one else has been able to link things like he has, some big goals, we missed him massively when he has out, and like Doyle was always there when the chips were down.

MJ the best of some very good January signings, but it's not player of the half season. O wonder if The Gun (I think?) has come around to him :D
:D

Yes, it took me longer than for some of you, and I still don't love him as much as others do, but I've definitely come around to him.

For a long time I wouldn't have countenanced picking anyone other than Santos for POTY, but I do agree with a lot of what BWFCi says (possibly for the first time ever) in suggesting Gilks is in with a strong shout. Perhaps the discrepancy in ability between him and Crellin has exaggerated his impact somewhat, but I think his literal strong shouting/organising on the pitch has been a huge factor in the improved performances of the players in front of him.

A quick mention also for Kieran Lee, whose style of play means he's not a headline grabber, but who I feel was as important as any of our January signings for turning things round.

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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon May 10, 2021 3:54 pm

See? :mrgreen:

That line-up at Fulham - jesus. Truly, we have Come A Long Way. Let us be happy.

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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon May 10, 2021 4:03 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 3:24 pm
The half a season thing is interesting. Given we were 20th when most of 'em signed, I'd still vote for any of the above. It's not like we were 6th and just needed a little push over the line. Gilks didn't start playing until midway through November...
Gilks started playing after league game 10 so quite a bit more than half a season. Santos was still a bit bobbins for a fair while after Gilks started. Not that it was Rico's fault he was being asked to play in a system that was failing.

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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by Prufrock » Mon May 10, 2021 4:11 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:41 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:38 pm
Santos for me, and comfortably. Not a lot to add to the reasons others have given. What a turnaround. From moving from the right to the middle of the back three he was immense in our mini run, and vital since Jan. Big part of us fixing set pieces too.
Interesting to note Gethin saying this weekend that they basically abandoned having him man-mark, so he can just attack the ball.

“We changed a few things defensively from corners, like Rico defending them and not marking anyone. It was little things like that which have worked out."

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... ns-season/
Aye I saw that, there's been a definitve improvement. I said a few weeks back that I didn't buy that the problem was we didn't care about set-pieces, I don't think it's Owen Coyle laissez-faire, Evatt has mentioned them as a problem pretty consistently throughout the season. It took a *long* time to figure it out, but we seemed to get there. Free role Reekz.
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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by Prufrock » Mon May 10, 2021 4:17 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 3:51 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:38 pm
Santos for me, and comfortably. Not a lot to add to the reasons others have given. What a turnaround. From moving from the right to the middle of the back three he was immense in our mini run, and vital since Jan. Big part of us fixing set pieces too.

I can't pick between 4 for second place.

Gilks - agree with the good things. On the flip side, I think how good he has been has been exaggerated by how bad Crellin was. The bar was set low. I think he's been excellent in the run in but was pretty much "competent" from coming in until then. Two absolute howlers in a couple of weeks in March (Mansfield and??) but in games we ended up winning so perhaps the spotlight was lesser. I also at least partly blame him for us signing Crellin in the first place :D

Baptiste - again, what's been said. Not quite as impressive as Santos over the season but really really solid, clearly a good egg, been top.

Doyle - I worry about him a league up, I'm not sure his around game is up to it, but I'm a team that wasn't really prolific to get 19 goals is impressive. He was also one of the few who stood up to be counted in the bad runs, never hid, always worked his bollocks off.

Sarc - despite having one of the worst first touches I've ever seen no-one else has been able to link things like he has, some big goals, we missed him massively when he has out, and like Doyle was always there when the chips were down.

MJ the best of some very good January signings, but it's not player of the half season. O wonder if The Gun (I think?) has come around to him :D
:D

Yes, it took me longer than for some of you, and I still don't love him as much as others do, but I've definitely come around to him.

For a long time I wouldn't have countenanced picking anyone other than Santos for POTY, but I do agree with a lot of what BWFCi says (possibly for the first time ever) in suggesting Gilks is in with a strong shout. Perhaps the discrepancy in ability between him and Crellin has exaggerated his impact somewhat, but I think his literal strong shouting/organising on the pitch has been a huge factor in the improved performances of the players in front of him.

A quick mention also for Kieran Lee, whose style of play means he's not a headline grabber, but who I feel was as important as any of our January signings for turning things round.
See I get that Gilks organising has had an impact, a definite step up on a child lacking in confidence, but I think it gets overplayed because he's so loud. Most of the time all he's actually shouting seems to be "press" and "out". It helps, sure, but not that much.

I read an interview with a keeper recently (it might have been him but I think not) where they were asked about communication with the back 4 and is it differnet without the fans and he said that most of time it wasn't really about passing information on but it helped him concentrate because he felt involved in the game all of the time. I wonder if that's part of it with Gilks. I'd bet (though we're guessing) that Baptiste has had far more of an influence on Santos, that will be proper information, in bits, all of the time from next to him.

Agreed on Lee, a class act. Not quite as impressive as MJ or vital to us IMO, but along with John probably our "best" player in the sense you could drop him into a Championship team and be confident he'd do a job.
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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by DJBlu » Mon May 10, 2021 4:30 pm

Santos just for the turn around following the abuse he got at the start of the season. Apparently the only player to play every minute of all the league games.

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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by irie Cee Bee » Mon May 10, 2021 5:03 pm

Tough choice but its MJ for me. Our midfield was like butter before he came and he was like a musical Director. Not a flashy position Defensive Midfield, but he made Baps and Santos look good, always covering and shielding them, forcing the opposition to play over to their heading strength, and not through us on the ground where they were weaker.

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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by Mar » Mon May 10, 2021 5:11 pm

Gotta be Santos.

There are some great quotes of how inept he was earlier in the season (harsh as they were) and the way he turned it around to be our best player despite us having a goal scorer scoring loads more than we've had for a couple of decades.

I think the thing for me is that Doyle matched expectations and Santos exceeded expectations and that's probably why he's standing out so much.

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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by officer_dibble » Mon May 10, 2021 5:19 pm

Keiron Lee is a top operator. Interestingly though I thought we coped better without him than Sarcevic in those last couple of games. Sarce made such a difference on Saturday, really grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck.

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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon May 10, 2021 5:59 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 5:19 pm
Keiron Lee is a top operator. Interestingly though I thought we coped better without him than Sarcevic in those last couple of games. Sarce made such a difference on Saturday, really grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck.
Apparently there are some Bolton fans that don’t like him according to Marc Iles. Have to wonder what games they watched. Easily our most accomplished player and a great captain. Honestly probably the same weirdos who thought Tim Ream was good.

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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by Worthy4England » Mon May 10, 2021 6:08 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 5:59 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 5:19 pm
Keiron Lee is a top operator. Interestingly though I thought we coped better without him than Sarcevic in those last couple of games. Sarce made such a difference on Saturday, really grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck.
Apparently there are some Bolton fans that don’t like him according to Marc Iles. Have to wonder what games they watched. Easily our most accomplished player and a great captain. Honestly probably the same weirdos who thought Tim Ream was good.
They have to find someone. Mate of mine doesn't rate him one bit. Took great delight in messaging "what a goal" or words to similar effect on Saturday. Never got a response....Don't get it at all. They're probably missing someone to boo.

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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by officer_dibble » Mon May 10, 2021 7:11 pm

Never understand that. Always happy to be proven wrong. Liam Gordon for example gets a clean slate next season - being able to live up here and socialize properly may make him a new man.

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Re: PoTY/PoTS 2020/21

Post by Worthy4England » Mon May 10, 2021 7:17 pm

Has me beat. Why would you boo someone on your own team. I can understand maybe after the odd match suggesting they might have been better, but during and individual players - don't get it.

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