Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

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To which of the following should BWFC offer contracts?

Poll ended at Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:10 pm

Lukas Jensen
5
2%
Matty Alexander*
12
5%
Gethin Jones
26
11%
Jak Hickman
0
No votes
Alex Baptiste
27
12%
Harry Brockbank
21
9%
Ryan Delaney
4
2%
Jamie Mascoll
0
No votes
Adam Senior*
16
7%
Declan John
27
12%
Andrew Tutte
5
2%
Sonny Graham*
14
6%
Callum King-Harmes*
9
4%
Lloyd Isgrove
27
12%
Zack Elbouzedi
4
2%
Dapo Afolayan
27
12%
Shaun Miller
7
3%
Mo Faal
0
No votes
Arthur Gnahoua
3
1%
 
Total votes: 234

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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun May 16, 2021 7:04 pm

Well, at least one of the players can't wait to get at it.. Heartening.. :pray:

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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by jmjhb » Wed May 19, 2021 12:34 pm

Shaun Miller, Arthur Gnahoua, Sonny Graham, Callum King-Harmes, Muhammadu Faal, Jak Hickman and Jamie Mascoll will officially depart the University of Bolton Stadium at the end of June while second year scholars Markus Assarsson and Nathan Whalley will also leave.

Loan players Billy Crellin, Declan John, Dapo Afolayan, Lukas Jensen, Ben Jackson and Zack Elbouzedi have returned to their respective clubs.

We would like to thank the players leaving Bolton Wanderers for their efforts throughout their time with the club and we wish them well for the future.

Talks regarding new contracts remain ongoing with Alex Baptiste, Harry Brockbank, Ryan Delaney, Matt Gilks, Lloyd Isgrove and Andrew Tutte, while discussions are also taking place with second year scholars Ryan Colvin, Jay Fitzmartin, Fin Lockett and Luke Hutchinson.

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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed May 19, 2021 12:36 pm

Contracts offered to Alex Baptiste, Harry Brockbank, Ryan Delaney, Matt Gilks, Lloyd Isgrove and Andrew Tutte.

Contract extension triggers for Gethin Jones, Matt Alexander and Adam Senior.

Contract discussions taking place with second-year scholars Ryan Colvin, Jay Fitzmartin, Fin Lockett and Luke Hutchinson.

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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by Bertie Wooster » Wed May 19, 2021 12:40 pm

I have to say that I'm very surprised with the club offering Delaney & Tutte new contracts.

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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by boltonboris » Wed May 19, 2021 12:42 pm

Tutte surprises me, but Delaney doesn't

Gives us the option of specialised backup and can play on the left of a back 3 *shudders* if required - He's not a bad player
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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed May 19, 2021 12:43 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 12:42 pm
Tutte surprises me, but Delaney doesn't

Gives us the option of specialised backup and can play on the left of a back 3 *shudders* if required - He's not a bad player
Same. Delaney I think could progress. Tutte I mean he did well I just think we still need a more physical option to back up MJ on top.

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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by jmjhb » Wed May 19, 2021 12:45 pm

Gradual change rather than all change, I suppose. I guess they will make the occasional appearance on the bench like Comley and Greenidge did towards the end of the season.

If my maths is correct we now have 13 spots in the squad, all of which can be significantly upgraded.

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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by brommers95 » Wed May 19, 2021 1:10 pm

I can see the logic of offering contracts to Delaney and Tutte - there's a lot to be said for squad continuity and keeping the majority of the 'core' social group together.

Evatt has mentioned previously how much he rates the attitudes of Delaney and Tutte in training. Not everybody can be a regular starter, you need backup players who aren't going to throw a hissy fit every time they don't play.

I'm yet to do the maths of where we are numbers wise but we'll have sufficient room to bring in quality L1 players and be within the squad registration limits (whatever the number turns out to be). I'd expect Comley, Greenidge, Crawford (and probably Gordon as well) to be moved on this summer giving us even more room for manoeuvre.

There's no doubt we need improved quality to seriously compete next season, but much easier to do that from a solid base of players who are familiar with each other as opposed to the route of recruiting a whole new squad we had to go down last summer.

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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed May 19, 2021 1:27 pm

I would have let Delaney and Tutte go but I did say I suspected he might keep the big Irishman about because of the way he knuckled down when out of the team. And as I say I've nothing against Tutte, decent professional, sensible head.

As Brommers suggests, I rather suspect this means we will be making strong attempts to get fringe players like Comley, Greenidge, possibly Crawford unless he's given a last chance, and Gordon either out of the club or off the pay-roll/squad list.

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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed May 19, 2021 1:59 pm

jmjhb wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 12:45 pm
If my maths is correct we now have 13 spots in the squad, all of which can be significantly upgraded.
Not sure how you get 13 spaces, bud.

Contracted overage (12):
Jones, Santos, Williams, Lee, Sarcevic, Delfouneso, Doyle, Greenidge, Edwards, Gordon, Comley, Crawford.
Contract offers tabled to overage players (6):
Gilks, Baptiste, Brockbank, Delaney, Tutte, Isgrove

Latest suggestion is that permitted squad size will be 22 overage outfielders, so if everyone signed the offered contracts that'd leave us with five gaps (12+6 but minus goalie Gliks) – unless we can shift some of those last five names in the first list (Greenidge, Edwards, Gordon, Comley, Crawford).

The other thing to note is that we have Santos contracted and have offered extensions to three other CBs (Baptiste, Delaney and HariBro). I would have rather hoped for a new centre-back to upgrade that part of the squad. With Greenidge and Edwards entering their last year of the contract, we would have six pay-rolled CBs...

The grid below might help. I make it nine spaces for "two first XIs" of overage players, although Evatt might include underagers Thomason/Darcy/Politic in his calculations.
.
squad 2.jpeg
squad 2.jpeg (48.57 KiB) Viewed 171 times

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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed May 19, 2021 2:07 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 1:59 pm
jmjhb wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 12:45 pm
If my maths is correct we now have 13 spots in the squad, all of which can be significantly upgraded.
Not sure how you get 13 spaces, bud.

Contracted overage (12):
Jones, Santos, Williams, Lee, Sarcevic, Delfouneso, Doyle, Greenidge, Edwards, Gordon, Comley, Crawford.
Contract offers tabled to overage players (6):
Gilks, Baptiste, Brockbank, Delaney, Tutte, Isgrove

Latest suggestion is that permitted squad size will be 22 overage outfielders, so if everyone signed the offered contracts that'd leave us with five gaps (12+6 but minus goalie Gliks) – unless we can shift some of those last five names in the first list (Greenidge, Edwards, Gordon, Comley, Crawford).

The other thing to note is that we have Santos contracted and have offered extensions to three other CBs (Baptiste, Delaney and HariBro). I would have rather hoped for a new centre-back to upgrade that part of the squad. With Greenidge and Edwards entering their last year of the contract, we would have six pay-rolled CBs...

The grid below might help. I make it nine spaces for "two first XIs" of overage players, although Evatt might include underagers Thomason/Darcy/Politic in his calculations.
.
squad 2.jpeg
Brockbank won't be considered a CB. I don't think.

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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by Bruce Rioja » Wed May 19, 2021 3:53 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 1:59 pm

Contracted overage (12):
Jones, Santos, Williams, Lee, Sarcevic, Delfouneso, Doyle, Greenidge, Edwards, Gordon, Comley, Crawford.
See, we're now saddled with Tobias Phoenix's moneyball signings who weren't good enough for the fourth, let alone the third.

So, bearing in mind that they're now simply 'squad-blockers' in a restricted numbers game, what's the answer if we can't loan them out? Can we afford to pay them up? I honestly don't know.
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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by boltonboris » Wed May 19, 2021 4:01 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 3:53 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 1:59 pm

Contracted overage (12):
Jones, Santos, Williams, Lee, Sarcevic, Delfouneso, Doyle, Greenidge, Edwards, Gordon, Comley, Crawford.
See, we're now saddled with Tobias Phoenix's moneyball signings who weren't good enough for the fourth, let alone the third.

So, bearing in mind that they're now simply 'squad-blockers' in a restricted numbers game, what's the answer if we can't loan them out? Can we afford to pay them up? I honestly don't know.
I think we would look to reach an agreement - We'd have to pay them anyway, if we had them all season, so if we give them X % and cut-em adrift, I don't think that would be a problem
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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed May 19, 2021 4:02 pm

Based on a pure whim and nothing else, I'd have kept Shaun Miler. Doesn't matter now, he's gone.
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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed May 19, 2021 4:04 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 3:53 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 1:59 pm

Contracted overage (12):
Jones, Santos, Williams, Lee, Sarcevic, Delfouneso, Doyle, Greenidge, Edwards, Gordon, Comley, Crawford.
See, we're now saddled with Tobias Phoenix's moneyball signings who weren't good enough for the fourth, let alone the third.

So, bearing in mind that they're now simply 'squad-blockers' in a restricted numbers game, what's the answer if we can't loan them out? Can we afford to pay them up? I honestly don't know.
See I think only Greenidge is in that category. Gordon was an Evatt call as he knew him from non league. Comley already established in league two so hard to say he was a moneyball signing just one that didn’t work out whoever picked him.

As for getting rid I suspect Gordon could be loaned to non league. Comley we might get out of loan. Greenidge? Perhaps we should club together for a ‘hitman’ style take out?

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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by Bruce Rioja » Wed May 19, 2021 4:06 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 4:01 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 3:53 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 1:59 pm

Contracted overage (12):
Jones, Santos, Williams, Lee, Sarcevic, Delfouneso, Doyle, Greenidge, Edwards, Gordon, Comley, Crawford.
See, we're now saddled with Tobias Phoenix's moneyball signings who weren't good enough for the fourth, let alone the third.

So, bearing in mind that they're now simply 'squad-blockers' in a restricted numbers game, what's the answer if we can't loan them out? Can we afford to pay them up? I honestly don't know.
I think we would look to reach an agreement - We'd have to pay them anyway, if we had them all season, so if we give them X % and cut-em adrift, I don't think that would be a problem

I'd hope so, but then they do reserve the right to do a Winston Bogarde.
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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by boltonboris » Wed May 19, 2021 4:08 pm

Fo' Sho, but then they're pretty much waving their career goodbye..

Squad sizes being reduced every year, pressure for wage caps coming in.. Less spots for pro's to fight for, so if you've not kicked a ball for 12 months +, you're at the back of the queue for suitors
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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed May 19, 2021 4:21 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 4:01 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 3:53 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 1:59 pm
Contracted overage (12):
Jones, Santos, Williams, Lee, Sarcevic, Delfouneso, Doyle, Greenidge, Edwards, Gordon, Comley, Crawford.
See, we're now saddled with Tobias Phoenix's moneyball signings who weren't good enough for the fourth, let alone the third.

So, bearing in mind that they're now simply 'squad-blockers' in a restricted numbers game, what's the answer if we can't loan them out? Can we afford to pay them up? I honestly don't know.
I think we would look to reach an agreement - We'd have to pay them anyway, if we had them all season, so if we give them X % and cut-em adrift, I don't think that would be a problem
Options:

1. Find a club who'll pay 100% of their wage. At that point, we can either just let them go on a free or loan them if the other club prefers – which they might as it's easier to disentangle, either during the loan or at its end (when we won't care anyway).
2. Find a club who'll pay some of their wage. This reduces our wage bill - literally cuts our losses.
3. Have them around as squad members and hope they can step up.
4. Deregister them - we still have to pay, but they can't play.
5. Pay them off, if they'll accept it: they'd be within their right to refuse anything less than 100% of their contractual due (Bogarde).

Couple of other things, though. Crawford, who's probably on the highest wage of the one we'd want out, can hardly be called a Moneyball signing in terms of "underrated". Comley, who's probably second on that mini-list, was an established D4 player; a decent risk, he just wasn't up to it. Gordon and especially Greenidge, yes - but Liam Edwards's contract predates Phoenix's involvement. He was given an extension to June 2022 on 12 September 2019 – a fortnight after FV took over and appointed Hill. Although his wages are presumably negligible, it was quite the long-term investment in someone who'd only played six senior games, half of them in the "Junior Whites" start to that campaign.

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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by Worthy4England » Wed May 19, 2021 4:27 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 3:53 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 1:59 pm

Contracted overage (12):
Jones, Santos, Williams, Lee, Sarcevic, Delfouneso, Doyle, Greenidge, Edwards, Gordon, Comley, Crawford.
See, we're now saddled with Tobias Phoenix's moneyball signings who weren't good enough for the fourth, let alone the third.

So, bearing in mind that they're now simply 'squad-blockers' in a restricted numbers game, what's the answer if we can't loan them out? Can we afford to pay them up? I honestly don't know.
Yeah, the squad blockers look to be a real problem for us at the minute.

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Re: Should they stay or should they go? Summer 2021

Post by irie Cee Bee » Wed May 19, 2021 5:07 pm

Surplus Players:
Comley - Will have L2 interest for a free transfer
Edwards - Was very promising Center Half. Injuries have messed him up but we may have a good you player in our hands who we could loan out.
Crawford - Will have suitors interested in another loan in L2. We may have to pay some of his salary
Gordon - Will have suitors interested in lower divisions because of his age (loan or free transfer), and left footed. Young so lets see if he has improved over the summer.
Greenidge - Who? Seems like we will be stuck with an unregistered player unless he rips up his contract to go back to the Continent

So to me, we will have room to strengthen. DSB says 5 plus I would think 4 of the above = 9 quality available spots. We need to strengthen as we cannot compete successfully in L1 with what we have now. We would struggle in terms of quality and January showed what improving quality can do. Evatt knows this and will build on the base we now have for incremental improvement.

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