Pre-season frendlies

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Post Reply
BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 29046
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:41 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:33 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:18 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:13 am
officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:45 am
We’ll see, we got dicked about 5-1 by a makeshift Wigan team last summer and still went up. Playing in a heatwave I wouldn’t fancy it as a high intensity game that will tell us too much.
That Wigan game brought us back to earth after a 3-0 win over Accrington a week or so before. That and the early cup games v Crewe and Bradford was a pointer that we weren't going to start the season well.

It's important this time to iron out as many deficiencies as we can in pre season, so we're not still looking like a bunch of strangers in late August, like we were last year.
Given we can start the team that finished last season there really is no excuse this time. I'm confident we'll be fine.
Yes and no. I think he's made some signings that were there to improve us, rather than keep us static as League 2 third place team. We could do with seeing some evidence of it! :-)
Ok I meant in terms of we won't start the season in shambles. As for whether we've got the quality and the right players time will only tell. I'm unconvinced pre-season will tell you much.

What I've seen so far my doubts are solely over two things 1) Goals across the whole side and 2) physicality.

I fear those are the two question marks. Johnston is small, very small. And Aimson looks bigger but not sure he plays. And then goals - I don't see where we've added goals to the side and for me that's a concern.

However, this season for me mid table is a good result. And I think we've got enough to achieve that.

Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 21481
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by Prufrock » Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:20 am

I don't think Johnston looked that small. Everyone looks little next to Rico!

Only from the steam against the Bastard Tribute Act though so tough to tell.

Keeper worries me too. Bakayoko looks like exactly what we need in cover for Doyle. But yeah if Doyle doesn't play I'm not sure where the goals are coming from. We need me to be right about Dapo :D

Amaechi is clearly very talented. He's going one way or the other!
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 29046
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:43 am

Prufrock wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:20 am
I don't think Johnston looked that small. Everyone looks little next to Rico!

Only from the steam against the Bastard Tribute Act though so tough to tell.

Keeper worries me too. Bakayoko looks like exactly what we need in cover for Doyle. But yeah if Doyle doesn't play I'm not sure where the goals are coming from. We need me to be right about Dapo :D

Amaechi is clearly very talented. He's going one way or the other!
No real issue with the signings (I'd have preferred another monster centre back and midfield player ideally though) we are where we are. We're good enough if we can find the goals somehow - that's a big if.

At Atherton Johnston looked the smallest of our centre backs but he might be great in the air - can't tell as he was never tested.

Harry Genshaw
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8123
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Half dead in Panama

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:14 pm

Agree on the physicality and goals, Insane. A Joe Williams or Callum Connolly type loanee would be a great addition. A goal scorer could be trickier. Has that lad from Cambridge decided where he's going yet?
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 29046
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:27 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:14 pm
Agree on the physicality and goals, Insane. A Joe Williams or Callum Connolly type loanee would be a great addition. A goal scorer could be trickier. Has that lad from Cambridge decided where he's going yet?
Another striker who won’t play much is probably a luxury. I feel a midfield player who can hit double figures would improve us a lot.

Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25750
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:32 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:27 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:14 pm
Agree on the physicality and goals, Insane. A Joe Williams or Callum Connolly type loanee would be a great addition. A goal scorer could be trickier. Has that lad from Cambridge decided where he's going yet?
Another striker who won’t play much is probably a luxury. I feel a midfield player who can hit double figures would improve us a lot.
Agreed, not sure where we're getting them from though! :-)

Harry Genshaw
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8123
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Half dead in Panama

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:35 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:27 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:14 pm
Agree on the physicality and goals, Insane. A Joe Williams or Callum Connolly type loanee would be a great addition. A goal scorer could be trickier. Has that lad from Cambridge decided where he's going yet?
Another striker who won’t play much is probably a luxury. I feel a midfield player who can hit double figures would improve us a lot.
Aye. I was thinking more a striker who could also play off a front man too. So could both play with and instead of, Doyle. Bakayoko but with more goals. That's presuming he doesn't suddenly start knocking them in from all angles next season 《prays》
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

david lee's bald patch
Hopeful
Hopeful
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:29 pm
Location: On top of David's Head

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by david lee's bald patch » Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:39 pm

I'd take a centre half who'll chip in with 5 or so too. Woeful from corners last season

officer_dibble
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 10603
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:51 pm

Are we all assuming Sarce won’t finish with 8 ish goals? I think he’s got the platform behind him to do so. Once Lloyd got fit he looked like he could chip in and hopefully, hopefully Dapo improves his end product.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 20898
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:09 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:33 am
Yes and no. I think he's made some signings that were there to improve us, rather than keep us static as League 2 third place team. We could do with seeing some evidence of it! :-)
It’s open for debate - so let’s - as to how many of our best XI would be new this season.

I don’t think many fans would be astonished to see Gilks, Jones-Santos-Baptiste-John, Williams-Lee, Isgrove-Sarce-Dapo, Doyle. You could argue for Johnston above Baptist’s, or Sheehan in for Williams/Lee; you’d hope Amaechi can push for a place, and Bakayoko can offer an alternative to Doyle, and maybe Darcy/Dennis can be invigorating options from the bench. And of course we now have Dec&Dapo under contract, which is good. But right now, IMO, our first-choice XI is still the one that finished last season.

officer_dibble
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 10603
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:16 pm

Who are the ones most likely to be improved? Baptiste, Isgrove and Doyle for me…now we’ve signed Dixon anyway.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 20898
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:43 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:16 pm
Who are the ones most likely to be improved? Baptiste, Isgrove and Doyle for me…now we’ve signed Dixon anyway.
Johnston should replace Baptiste in time, hopefully (nothing against Alex but he’s getting on).

IIRC Doyle’s scored 46 in 100 at this level, so we’d do well to get better. IMO we need to improve his supporting cast (and sub options for him).

Isgrove is indeed one who you might imagine we can upgrade upon. However, he’s improved himself and is definitely an Evatt favourite. Amaechi may be an upgrade if he kicks on, we’ll see.

I do worry slightly that Sarce might not be a third-tier No.10. Certainly previously his goal-involvement output has notably shrunk at this level, which would be less of a problem if the two widemen were goaltastic.

I do think we need two more options - possibles, if not probables - in the 3 of the 4231. Maybe it’s Dennis and Darcy, but that would be a risk.

The_Gun
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1076
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by The_Gun » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:48 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:16 pm
Who are the ones most likely to be improved? Baptiste, Isgrove and Doyle for me…now we’ve signed Dixon anyway.
As in those players can be improved on? It would be great if we were able to improve on Doyle, but seems unlikely.

Goals do look to be a potential problem, but the expectation has to be that Dapo and Sarce should be chipping in with around 10 each, and then Fonz really should be getting his fair share too. Politic when he gets back to 100% would also be a goal threat. Isgrove as much as I admire many of his attributes isn’t a finisher, and Amaechi is a complete unknown. Bakayoko you’d expect a few from, but his record doesn’t inspire too much confidence. Anything from Lee, Williams, Sheehan and Thomason would be a bonus.

Bertie Wooster
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 687
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:49 am

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by Bertie Wooster » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:52 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:09 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:33 am
Yes and no. I think he's made some signings that were there to improve us, rather than keep us static as League 2 third place team. We could do with seeing some evidence of it! :-)
It’s open for debate - so let’s - as to how many of our best XI would be new this season.

I don’t think many fans would be astonished to see Gilks, Jones-Santos-Baptiste-John, Williams-Lee, Isgrove-Sarce-Dapo, Doyle. You could argue for Johnston above Baptist’s, or Sheehan in for Williams/Lee; you’d hope Amaechi can push for a place, and Bakayoko can offer an alternative to Doyle, and maybe Darcy/Dennis can be invigorating options from the bench. And of course we now have Dec&Dapo under contract, which is good. But right now, IMO, our first-choice XI is still the one that finished last season.
We have a much stronger bench IMO this season in League 1, however I expected us to bring in at least 2 quality signings that would be regular starters and as you say it does look like our 1st XI is likely to be the one that finished last season. IMO we desperately needed a good quality pacey striker (Bakayoko looks strong & pacy, but I doubt that he's a 10-15 goals a season striker), and our midfield is still a bit lightweight with a lack of physicality & steel. Personally I would give our summer recruitment 6.5 out of 10, but who knows some of the players signed (Sheehan, Johnston, Bakayoko, Amaechi etc.) who all have potential may pleasantly surprise us.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 29046
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:00 pm

Signing a striker who is strong, quick and scores goals is like playing the lottery. You might get lucky but in reality I suspect its happening for one or two teams per season at best.

My worry is the team generally. I'd be happy if we had a back four that could chip in 10 goals or so between them and then had Sarce, and another midfield player who scores a few on the basis that as Evatt says they must today the wingers chip in considerably more than they did last season. In a 4231 the players in your 3 need to be double figures at least no excuses. I'm looking at Dapo, Isgrove, Politic and Ameachi and wondering not if they'll bag ten each but whether they'll get 10 between them. That's the issue. Then as DSB points out Sarce's goals in L1 haven't been as frequent and we then have a lot of non scoring centre midfield players even if Sheehan perhaps looks likeliest of rest of them. Goals are an issue and we need them throughout the team. Your centre backs need to score goals from corners - you can't go another season without that. And your full backs ideally chip in too.

I'll say that if its a season of relying solely on Doyle we might drop because in this league whilst I suspect he'll still bag I doubt he'll score enough to carry us.

Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25750
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:19 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:00 pm
Signing a striker who is strong, quick and scores goals is like playing the lottery. You might get lucky but in reality I suspect its happening for one or two teams per season at best.

My worry is the team generally. I'd be happy if we had a back four that could chip in 10 goals or so between them and then had Sarce, and another midfield player who scores a few on the basis that as Evatt says they must today the wingers chip in considerably more than they did last season. In a 4231 the players in your 3 need to be double figures at least no excuses. I'm looking at Dapo, Isgrove, Politic and Ameachi and wondering not if they'll bag ten each but whether they'll get 10 between them. That's the issue. Then as DSB points out Sarce's goals in L1 haven't been as frequent and we then have a lot of non scoring centre midfield players even if Sheehan perhaps looks likeliest of rest of them. Goals are an issue and we need them throughout the team. Your centre backs need to score goals from corners - you can't go another season without that. And your full backs ideally chip in too.

I'll say that if its a season of relying solely on Doyle we might drop because in this league whilst I suspect he'll still bag I doubt he'll score enough to carry us.
I think having a three that hits 30 between them is going to be a bit of an ask. I dunno how accurate this is, but according to this site, there were 2 midfielders in League One who hit more than 10 last season :-)

https://www.footballcritic.com/league-o ... /424/44692

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 29046
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:44 pm

^Worthy the average goals scored in L1 last season was 60. If you take out the top two who both bagged over 80 and the highest goals scored it was still 58.

Rochdale went down with 61, Ipswich the low outlier finishing 9th with just 46. Ipswich do seem a real outlier though looking at the table.

So lets be ultra generous and say our back four can be as hard to score against as last season and say 55 might get us mid table as a minimum.

Last season our goaslcorers were (I've omitted those no longer here)...

Eoin Doyle 19
Nathan Delfouneso 8
Antoni Sarcevic 8
Lloyd Isgrove 3
Gethin Jones 3
Declan John 2
Kieran Lee 2
Adam Senior 1
Alistair Crawford 1
George Thomason 1
Oladapo Afolayan 1

If we add in the new boys and their records from last season
Josh Sheehan - 3
Baka - 0
Johnston - 1
Aimson - 0
Amaechi - 0

Way I see it is Delf's unlikely to start that many so 8 from him seems a bit optimistic. If we put Doyle down for 20 (optimistically I suspect) you have 35 to find. Even if Dapo and Isgrove and Sarce all hit 8 each you're not flush.

I don't in anyway think we'll have 3 players on ten plus but the most likely way is ALL these attacking players upping their end product considerably rather than us finding an undiscovered gem who bags 15.

User avatar
TANGODANCER
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 39412
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:35 pm
Location: Between the Regency and the Rubaiyat and forever trying to light penny candles from stars.

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:54 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:16 pm
Who are the ones most likely to be improved? Baptiste, Isgrove and Doyle for me…now we’ve signed Dixon anyway.
Baptiste was one of the few who impressed against the Mancs. Considering his age and the searing temperature, he was quite amazing...
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25750
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:56 pm

I understand the maths you're heading to Insano. I'm trying to work out where the three MF's with 10 goals apiece are coming from! :-)

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 29046
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Pre-season frendlies

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:20 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:56 pm
I understand the maths you're heading to Insano. I'm trying to work out where the three MF's with 10 goals apiece are coming from! :-)
Yeah that's not happening but probably need a couple close to ten at least. And then goals from elsewhere.

As it stands there were Doyle, Delf and Sarce who scored the majority of our goals last season. Assuming Delf isn't a starter his goals need replacing in the 11 on top of wanting to add more in.

Arthur and Miller have gone but got 7 between them that's more to find.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 43 guests