Are we witnessing the start of something very special?

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Re: Are we witnessing the start of something very special?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:42 am

Whitesince63 wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:18 am
Bruce also had greater financial clout than IE has
Interesting side discussion.

Rioch was told on arrival that he had £20k to spend. He won that first promotion with Neal’s side plus three: freebie Branagan, McGinlay (bought by selling Philliskirk), and David Lee (affordable once the club had the Liverpool home game to look forward to).

So yes, in a way Rioch had more to spend, although that’s just “transfer fees” rather than overall expenditure - wages are obviously much higher now and I’d guess our wage budget last year was bigger comparative to other clubs in the division than Rioch’s squad was. Lower division, though.

This isn’t, by the way, to denigrate either man or his initial achievement. As you say, Evatt had to start from scratch, which is a huge test; meanwhile, Rioch’s achievement in essentially making another man’s squad successful is something that would arguably be beyond many modern chequebook managers.

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Re: Are we witnessing the start of something very special?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:17 am

Whitesince63 wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:18 am
Interesting discussion and yes I do think we’re on the cusp of a new rise and I expect it to continue this season with another promotion. For me there is only one essential piece missing in our team jigsaw and that is up top but I’m entirely confident that IE will resolve it before the window closes. Comparisons with Bruce I think are a bit premature because he benefitted greatly from players already here, whereas IE is basically doing it from scratch. Bruce also had greater financial clout than IE has but I do agree on the togetherness of the squad which I never saw under Parky, Freedman or Megson. I certainly don’t think there’s any chance of IE leaving just yet. For him to be offered a “big” club job, they would have to be in trouble, like a Derby, Leeds or Nottingham Forest and would he really gain from it when he can build something special here? We are after all a “big” club ourselves below Championship level. IE and FV have a goal and I have every confidence they’ll achieve it, starting with promotion again this year and then a new assault on the PL after that. Exciting times ahead I think and especially for our kids who haven’t had the benefit of the years under the likes of Bruce, Toddy and Sam.
Promotion this year is probably ambitious. Its not impossible but I've seen enough to think there are sides with greater quality and strength in depth than we possess. Spirit goes a long way but as the season settles down I fear we're still maybe a couple short.

As for the premier league - unless something financially changes round the club I think we can forget about mounting a challenge for it. Its a ways off and frankly the championship right now is such a longshot to navigate without significant resources.

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Re: Are we witnessing the start of something very special?

Post by Whitesince63 » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:32 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:17 am
Whitesince63 wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:18 am
Interesting discussion and yes I do think we’re on the cusp of a new rise and I expect it to continue this season with another promotion. For me there is only one essential piece missing in our team jigsaw and that is up top but I’m entirely confident that IE will resolve it before the window closes. Comparisons with Bruce I think are a bit premature because he benefitted greatly from players already here, whereas IE is basically doing it from scratch. Bruce also had greater financial clout than IE has but I do agree on the togetherness of the squad which I never saw under Parky, Freedman or Megson. I certainly don’t think there’s any chance of IE leaving just yet. For him to be offered a “big” club job, they would have to be in trouble, like a Derby, Leeds or Nottingham Forest and would he really gain from it when he can build something special here? We are after all a “big” club ourselves below Championship level. IE and FV have a goal and I have every confidence they’ll achieve it, starting with promotion again this year and then a new assault on the PL after that. Exciting times ahead I think and especially for our kids who haven’t had the benefit of the years under the likes of Bruce, Toddy and Sam.
Promotion this year is probably ambitious. Its not impossible but I've seen enough to think there are sides with greater quality and strength in depth than we possess. Spirit goes a long way but as the season settles down I fear we're still maybe a couple short.

As for the premier league - unless something financially changes round the club I think we can forget about mounting a challenge for it. Its a ways off and frankly the championship right now is such a longshot to navigate without significant resources.


To be honest Insane, I haven’t seen anything yet from any other club to say promotion is beyond us this year and I’d also question whether many have better strength in depth than we have. I do accept we’re one or two short, especially up front but I’d expect IE to try and remedy that before the window closes. I do also totally accept your finance point if we do return to the Championship and is why I think FV may either sell out to someone with deeper pockets, or bring in additional investors to add to what they have. Either way, the sustainable method should hopefully be retained. I don’t think there would be any unnecessary rush to rejoin the PL but it must be an aspiration because that’s where the money is and also where IE wants to be. Maybe I’m just being over optimistic after the horrors of the last decade but I really do think, as the thread suggests, that this could be the start of a new era for the club. I certainly hope so because the fans, owners and management all deserve it.

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Re: Are we witnessing the start of something very special?

Post by LeverEnd » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:39 am

Very unpredictable league, lots of dark horse teams do well.
One thing I can predict now we've had this discussion is a sound bumming tomorrow and it'll all be BWFCInsane's fault. :grin:
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Re: Are we witnessing the start of something very special?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:43 am

…which is another side discussion: what to do if we do go up? Live within means, like Rotherham, and accept that the price may be yo-yoing up and down for a while? I’d rather that than overspend.

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Re: Are we witnessing the start of something very special?

Post by LeverEnd » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:52 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:43 am
…which is another side discussion: what to do if we do go up? Live within means, like Rotherham, and accept that the price may be yo-yoing up and down for a while? I’d rather that than overspend.
I agree. Yoyo-ing keeps things interesting. Plus we could be running up further debt to finish between 16th and 20th every year. Where's the fun in that?
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Re: Are we witnessing the start of something very special?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:59 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:43 am
…which is another side discussion: what to do if we do go up? Live within means, like Rotherham, and accept that the price may be yo-yoing up and down for a while? I’d rather that than overspend.
Is there a choice? I don't think Sharon and Mike et al are here to charge for glory at all costs. We'll be sensible (I hope) and as you say we may see what sustainability means and no doubt many of our younger fans especially won't like it. But its where we are. I honestly am not expecting to see the club again in the top flight in my lifetime. I've made my peace with that. If it happens it will be great and its obviously not impossible but just the way football is you can't in any way guarantee it.

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Re: Are we witnessing the start of something very special?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:00 am

LeverEnd wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:39 am
Very unpredictable league, lots of dark horse teams do well.
One thing I can predict now we've had this discussion is a sound bumming tomorrow and it'll all be BWFCInsane's fault. :grin:
Yeah maybe. But so what? We can then go and beat Wigan. I think we may well lose to a good Oxford side tomorrow as we have a few injuries and our pre season disruption means we're feeling our way back. But if it happens we'd bounce back be it Wigan or away at Cambridge.

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Re: Are we witnessing the start of something very special?

Post by TANGODANCER » Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:17 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:00 am
LeverEnd wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:39 am
Very unpredictable league, lots of dark horse teams do well.
One thing I can predict now we've had this discussion is a sound bumming tomorrow and it'll all be BWFCInsane's fault. :grin:
Yeah maybe. But so what? We can then go and beat Wigan. I think we may well lose to a good Oxford side tomorrow as we have a few injuries and our pre season disruption means we're feeling our way back. But if it happens we'd bounce back be it Wigan or away at Cambridge.
We will of course, win tomorrow. COME ON YOU WHITES. :mrgreen:
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Re: Are we witnessing the start of something very special?

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:53 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:42 am
Rioch’s achievement in essentially making another man’s squad successful is something that would arguably be beyond many modern chequebook managers.
This, absolutely. Redeploying Scott Green for instance from struggling right winger to very capable right back. I also remember him giving an interview after the Anfield game in which he said we'd "brought David Lee home" and after the Hull game in which he talked of "the bond between club and supporter". I still don't think we'll ever see his likes again, but Evatt's doing very well. ;)
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Re: Are we witnessing the start of something very special?

Post by LeverEnd » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:13 pm

Sky must think we're onto something, they've moved our home game with Burton from Saturday 4th September to Monday 6th, the annoying bastards.
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Re: Are we witnessing the start of something very special?

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:44 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:13 pm
Sky must think we're onto something, they've moved our home game with Burton from Saturday 4th September to Monday 6th, the annoying bastards.
Aye, football, like every other popular sport, is spelled "Revenue" to Sky and all the rest who deal in every aspect except the game ;that's left to the bookmakers etc, with results just another source of brass. Thus it ever more will be till some stock exchange "crash" happens and it all blows up. :whack:


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