Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:43 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:30 pm
Question, because I didn't see the game yesterday , only followed the commentary:

We seemed to be getting caught for speed, particularly by Taylor, quite a lot in the first half, and even right at the death Whyte got within ten yards of our goal with nobody marking him, had he shot on target two points would have been lost. Are we playing a bit gung-ho in using the offside trap a lot, particularly with dodgy officials, and will it cost us against the better sides in this division? As I said, not a criticism, just an observation/question.
Iles noted we dropped off in the second half and looked less likely to get "turned around". Trouble is that gives the oppo more room to play and makes it much harder to compress the game and win the ball off them.

Not unlike Arrigo Sacchi's great Milan team of 30 years ago, there's usually not much space between our defence and attack - not because we're playing offside as such, but because we're hunting in packs to win the ball back, these days called a "high press". I haven't seen the numbers but I suspect we won the ball back much less often after half-time yesterday... but we won the game.

Oxford boss Karl Robinson, while saying some kind things about Bolton post-match, said his team learnt a lot about themselves yesterday. I think ours probably did too; I certainly hope so. Evatt wants them to problem-solve "on the hoof" during games and notes that they reacted well to Oxford's early switch to a diamond midfield, by passing down the flanks where the space was; although playing a deeper line seems to have come from managerial half-time edict, the players are showing promising signs of developing game intelligence. There's more than one way to win a game, and changes like that one - or going a bit longer against Barnsley to avoid *their* high press - are good practice for the problem-solving this team will have to do as it plays against better opponents.

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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:49 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:43 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:30 pm
Question, because I didn't see the game yesterday , only followed the commentary:

We seemed to be getting caught for speed, particularly by Taylor, quite a lot in the first half, and even right at the death Whyte got within ten yards of our goal with nobody marking him, had he shot on target two points would have been lost. Are we playing a bit gung-ho in using the offside trap a lot, particularly with dodgy officials, and will it cost us against the better sides in this division? As I said, not a criticism, just an observation/question.
Iles noted we dropped off in the second half and looked less likely to get "turned around". Trouble is that gives the oppo more room to play and makes it much harder to compress the game and win the ball off them.

Not unlike Arrigo Sacchi's great Milan team of 30 years ago, there's usually not much space between our defence and attack - not because we're playing offside as such, but because we're hunting in packs to win the ball back, these days called a "high press". I haven't seen the numbers but I suspect we won the ball back much less often after half-time yesterday... but we won the game.

Oxford boss Karl Robinson, while saying some kind things about Bolton post-match, said his team learnt a lot about themselves yesterday. I think ours probably did too; I certainly hope so. Evatt wants them to problem-solve "on the hoof" during games and notes that they reacted well to Oxford's early switch to a diamond midfield, by passing down the flanks where the space was; although playing a deeper line seems to have come from managerial half-time edict, the players are showing promising signs of developing game intelligence. There's more than one way to win a game, and changes like that one - or going a bit longer against Barnsley to avoid *their* high press - are good practice for the problem-solving this team will have to do as it plays against better opponents.
Thanks, D.S.B.
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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:06 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:30 pm
Question, because I didn't see the game yesterday , only followed the commentary:

We seemed to be getting caught for speed, particularly by Taylor, quite a lot in the first half, and even right at the death Whyte got within ten yards of our goal with nobody marking him, had he shot on target two points would have been lost. Are we playing a bit gung-ho in using the offside trap a lot, particularly with dodgy officials, and will it cost us against the better sides in this division? As I said, not a criticism, just an observation/question.
You have to separate the first half and the chance in the second half you mention. First half we did get caught in behind all the time as a result of a high line and Oxford being very sharp in attack. We sat a little deeper second half which reduced being caught but let Oxford dominate the ball at times.

The chance you highlight we were sat deep in stoppage time and it wasn’t about being caught on the break but because Jones and Kachunga were beaten by their player. It was a bit lucky but then you sometimes need a bit of luck.

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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:09 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:36 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:27 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:45 am
DJBlu wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:08 am
Oh and MJ Williams, such an engine. Starting to think he could be the find of the decade.
And I’m starting to think we need to extend his contract…
And find someone who can do a similar job and help that man out. Looked exhausted yesterday but there honestly is nobody in the squad in that mould so it’s definitely something to look at for me.
I can see that, it certainly makes sense. However, I'm just not sure that we can sensibly sanction signing another central midfielder when we already have eight (Williams, Lee, Sarce, Sheehan, Tutte, Thomason, Comley and Crawford) and only one real centre-forward (admittedly Kachunga and Delfouneso could be pressed into action, but both are half-fit).

If we can clear Comley and Crawford off the payroll I suspect we'll get another sitter in, but the squad still looked much lighter up top even before Baka's injury. That's the *squad*; in terms of near-irreplaceabilty in the *team*, I agree MJ's right up there - but we're also worryingly shallow across the front three.
Yes. I can’t disagree. But it just feels like we have too many midfield players who are of the same mould. Tutte seems an odd renewal considering that he seems well down the pecking order and Lee and Thomason are more natural replacements for Sarce and Sheehan yet Tutte isn’t really close to a Williams.

Our forwards are of all fit for me covered. We have a couple of injuries but still have Kach and Delf in reserve. I agree we need more. And fairly urgently.

But MJ has no cover at all. If he got an injury I’d worry because I honestly think without him or a player of that type we will struggle hugely in this league. It might be impossible to find cover but I hope we’d consider it at least.

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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:44 pm

I know he's not the type but I wonder whether Evatt's back-up plan is to have Lee as more of a sitter than a rover. He can read the game well (and God knows he's been no use in the oppo box, bless him) so as he ages he may develop into a good anchor. Risk, though, obviously.

Tutte played the role last season, but not as completely as MJ. If MJ was out, IMO we'd definitely need to sacrifice Sarce or Sheehan and play a more solid 2; at the mo, MJ's not far off Kante-like levels of hole-filling.

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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by Prufrock » Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:01 pm

Aye think the plan would be Lee. I think he could do the job very well, albeit not as well as MJ. I'd worry about us physically then though. We're already not a big team even with MJ.
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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by The_Gun » Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:16 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:01 pm
Aye think the plan would be Lee. I think he could do the job very well, albeit not as well as MJ. I'd worry about us physically then though. We're already not a big team even with MJ.
Lee is the same height as MJ (actually listed as being taller, but I don’t think that’s accurate).

Edit: Official site lists MJ as being 2cm taller.

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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:29 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:44 pm
I know he's not the type but I wonder whether Evatt's back-up plan is to have Lee as more of a sitter than a rover. He can read the game well (and God knows he's been no use in the oppo box, bless him) so as he ages he may develop into a good anchor. Risk, though, obviously.

Tutte played the role last season, but not as completely as MJ. If MJ was out, IMO we'd definitely need to sacrifice Sarce or Sheehan and play a more solid 2; at the mo, MJ's not far off Kante-like levels of hole-filling.
If you look at the first few games our weakness is on turnovers. Oxford had done their homework and exploited that with their diamond. Now we found a way but I think our way included a bit of luck and lapse finishing from Oxford. But I do think we will hit a point where it’s desirable and even necessary to have another presence in that midfield pivot position. Or as you say Evatt would have to change how we play but I’m less convinced that we’ve got the ability at this level to do that. Last year we could play without a true holding player as most teams sat back. This time it’s all action and our midfield gets through a huge workload.

It is what it is. You will never have a perfect squad and sometimes you just can’t cover everyone properly. Short term another attacker is important. But mid term a DM becomes more significant potentially. If we are greedy we get both. Or try and get Comley up to speed.

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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by Prufrock » Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:12 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:16 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:01 pm
Aye think the plan would be Lee. I think he could do the job very well, albeit not as well as MJ. I'd worry about us physically then though. We're already not a big team even with MJ.
Lee is the same height as MJ (actually listed as being taller, but I don’t think that’s accurate).

Edit: Official site lists MJ as being 2cm taller.
I mean, he absolutely isn't :lol: Those figures are all dodgy as hell (parts of the internet still have Darcy as 6'3"!!) They all seem to be self-referential.

MJ is taller but I guess more importantly and what I really meant, he's miles better in the air. Jumps well, timing, uses his arms etc We've got lots around the 6' mark who can all compete, but only Rico and MJ I'd expect to win most headers.
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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by truewhite15 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:10 pm

The problem, as ever, is that we're in League One, and can't afford to have a carbon-copy MJ replacement to sit on the bench "just in case". Nobody in this league can. We have to come to terms with the fact that, at this level, if players get injured, they're likely to be replaced with someone of a lesser quality. If they weren't of a lesser quality, they wouldn't have stuck around to sit on our bench.

I actually think our strength in depth is pretty damn good for all positions this season, considering the level we're at.

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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:34 pm

truewhite15 wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:10 pm
The problem, as ever, is that we're in League One, and can't afford to have a carbon-copy MJ replacement to sit on the bench "just in case". Nobody in this league can. We have to come to terms with the fact that, at this level, if players get injured, they're likely to be replaced with someone of a lesser quality. If they weren't of a lesser quality, they wouldn't have stuck around to sit on our bench.

I actually think our strength in depth is pretty damn good for all positions this season, considering the level we're at.
It’s not so much the same quality. We aren’t getting anyone as good as MJ. But someone who can do the same job would be good. Arguably necessary.

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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by The_Gun » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:49 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:34 pm
truewhite15 wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:10 pm
The problem, as ever, is that we're in League One, and can't afford to have a carbon-copy MJ replacement to sit on the bench "just in case". Nobody in this league can. We have to come to terms with the fact that, at this level, if players get injured, they're likely to be replaced with someone of a lesser quality. If they weren't of a lesser quality, they wouldn't have stuck around to sit on our bench.

I actually think our strength in depth is pretty damn good for all positions this season, considering the level we're at.
It’s not so much the same quality. We aren’t getting anyone as good as MJ. But someone who can do the same job would be good. Arguably necessary.
Presumably we re-signed Tutte for this very reason? He was also arguably our best player in the first half of last season. Yes, he’s not as good as MJ, but Evatt must think he’s capable of doing a job at League One level.

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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:20 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:49 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:34 pm
truewhite15 wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:10 pm
The problem, as ever, is that we're in League One, and can't afford to have a carbon-copy MJ replacement to sit on the bench "just in case". Nobody in this league can. We have to come to terms with the fact that, at this level, if players get injured, they're likely to be replaced with someone of a lesser quality. If they weren't of a lesser quality, they wouldn't have stuck around to sit on our bench.

I actually think our strength in depth is pretty damn good for all positions this season, considering the level we're at.
It’s not so much the same quality. We aren’t getting anyone as good as MJ. But someone who can do the same job would be good. Arguably necessary.
Presumably we re-signed Tutte for this very reason? He was also arguably our best player in the first half of last season. Yes, he’s not as good as MJ, but Evatt must think he’s capable of doing a job at League One level.
See for me Tutte isn’t anything like MJ. I’m not sure asking him to do that job is any different to asking Sarcevic to do it. They both probably could but neither are holding midfield players. Tutte covers ground up and down the pitch. I don’t see him as a midfield player to read the game and fill the space in front of the back four. He’s just not that for me. And in league two you arguably needed that player far less as teams were mainly looking to spoil games. But we’ve seen in four games in this league teams will hurt you on the transition and MJ has been absolutely critical. His physical presence so important. Tutte just doesn’t have the same game or qualities. He’s more a replacement for Sheehan in terms of the role.

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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by Prufrock » Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:33 pm

I wonder if the plan is to compensate by shape rather than personnel and have Sheehan play deeper alongside Lee. We changed back to a 4231 for 20 mins in Saturday. Sheehan was playing next to MJ.
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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:54 pm

On current form nobody can replace MJ and good luck trying to find someone as good as him who'd be willing to spend the bulk of the season on the bench.

Bakayokos injury is of more immediate concern to me because we've only Doyle now who can play up top. He ran his heart out on Saturday, his movement off the ball is superb and he must be a nightmare to defend against but short of shoving Delf up there, i can't see him getting much of a break, with the games coming thick and fast.
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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by Prufrock » Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:23 pm

Kachunga played there against Lincoln and looked better than in good other cameos I've seen. I don't know if it's because he's still a way of fitness wise but he doesn't seem particularly quick or a strong runner, but better at linking.
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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:54 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:23 pm
Kachunga played there against Lincoln and looked better than in good other cameos I've seen. I don't know if it's because he's still a way of fitness wise but he doesn't seem particularly quick or a strong runner, but better at linking.
I dont know much about his career before he joined us, has he played centrally up top before? One or two looked dead on their feet yesterday and despite wanting a cup run and the occasion, im expecting a few changes on Tuesday.
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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by Spartan2 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:31 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:54 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:23 pm
Kachunga played there against Lincoln and looked better than in good other cameos I've seen. I don't know if it's because he's still a way of fitness wise but he doesn't seem particularly quick or a strong runner, but better at linking.
I dont know much about his career before he joined us, has he played centrally up top before? One or two looked dead on their feet yesterday and despite wanting a cup run and the occasion, im expecting a few changes on Tuesday.

He's played 9 before, did okay :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmv2FSSP5iE

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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:34 am

Spartan2 wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:31 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:54 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:23 pm
Kachunga played there against Lincoln and looked better than in good other cameos I've seen. I don't know if it's because he's still a way of fitness wise but he doesn't seem particularly quick or a strong runner, but better at linking.
I dont know much about his career before he joined us, has he played centrally up top before? One or two looked dead on their feet yesterday and despite wanting a cup run and the occasion, im expecting a few changes on Tuesday.

He's played 9 before, did okay :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmv2FSSP5iE
:D not bad!!
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Re: Mortar boards..boards for mortar...V.Oxford Utd. 21-08-21. 1500.

Post by DJBlu » Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:15 pm

Just watching the full replay of the game and one thing I'm seeing is the confidence growing from the equaliser. They are playing like they know the next goal is coming. The team seem to be playing with contempt of defence as they believe they'll score enough to get something out of it.

It's an absolute joy to watch knowing the result but it's hard to see when the game is live.

It's like night and day compared to some of the football we've seen in the past decade.

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