Loan Watch

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:39 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:20 pm
Just picking up on what's been said - I'd just summise that Evatt isn't overly happy that DP hasn't signed. And I'm guessing January return is a no-go if he's not signed. Its not what I would do - just how I read the runes.

I suppose giving up or not depends on whether the club feel their offer was generous - if they do - its not in their hands.
For sure - I could tell what you were suggesting is what you think will happen, not necessarily what should. And I think you're right: it feels like Evatt would need Politic to back down, and while (as you know) I generally support the gaffer, I think in this situation a little man-management might not go amiss. Talk to the player, see if he wants to come back and press his case, maybe earn a better contract. I doubt he's asking a ludicrous amount.

But as ever, we'll probably never know. Maybe those conversations have already happened and Politic has told Evatt to stick it.

For me, as a supporter of Bolton Wanderers - the club, which is far more important than any manager or youth product (or fan) – I would suggest there's enough in Dennis, if only in potential resale value, to make it worth checking him out, giving him a contract, seeing if his stock rises. If Evatt truly doesn't like him, he doesn't even have to play him - send him back to Vale for this season, then somewhere else next (possibly Vale again if they go up). I just can't help feeling we might be losing an asset - literally, financially, as much as tactically - and possibly through a little managerial stubbornness.

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by irie Cee Bee » Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:56 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:39 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:20 pm
Just picking up on what's been said - I'd just summise that Evatt isn't overly happy that DP hasn't signed. And I'm guessing January return is a no-go if he's not signed. Its not what I would do - just how I read the runes.

I suppose giving up or not depends on whether the club feel their offer was generous - if they do - its not in their hands.
For sure - I could tell what you were suggesting is what you think will happen, not necessarily what should. And I think you're right: it feels like Evatt would need Politic to back down, and while (as you know) I generally support the gaffer, I think in this situation a little man-management might not go amiss. Talk to the player, see if he wants to come back and press his case, maybe earn a better contract. I doubt he's asking a ludicrous amount.

But as ever, we'll probably never know. Maybe those conversations have already happened and Politic has told Evatt to stick it.

For me, as a supporter of Bolton Wanderers - the club, which is far more important than any manager or youth product (or fan) – I would suggest there's enough in Dennis, if only in potential resale value, to make it worth checking him out, giving him a contract, seeing if his stock rises. If Evatt truly doesn't like him, he doesn't even have to play him - send him back to Vale for this season, then somewhere else next (possibly Vale again if they go up). I just can't help feeling we might be losing an asset - literally, financially, as much as tactically - and possibly through a little managerial stubbornness.
But DSB, did we not offer him a contract which he has refused to sign. That's an indication that we saw something in him, but he seems to value himself higher than Evatt value him at the moment.

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:31 pm

I assume, if Evatt wanted to increase the contract offer, he could do so, given I think there's now a few folk said words to the effect of "we have some room to move in January"...I have no idea what Evatt might have offered Politic nor what Politic is demanding off Evatt. But either way, if the two don't match, then it'll have to be "Thanks Dennis"...

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:37 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:39 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:20 pm
Just picking up on what's been said - I'd just summise that Evatt isn't overly happy that DP hasn't signed. And I'm guessing January return is a no-go if he's not signed. Its not what I would do - just how I read the runes.

I suppose giving up or not depends on whether the club feel their offer was generous - if they do - its not in their hands.
For sure - I could tell what you were suggesting is what you think will happen, not necessarily what should. And I think you're right: it feels like Evatt would need Politic to back down, and while (as you know) I generally support the gaffer, I think in this situation a little man-management might not go amiss. Talk to the player, see if he wants to come back and press his case, maybe earn a better contract. I doubt he's asking a ludicrous amount.

But as ever, we'll probably never know. Maybe those conversations have already happened and Politic has told Evatt to stick it.

For me, as a supporter of Bolton Wanderers - the club, which is far more important than any manager or youth product (or fan) – I would suggest there's enough in Dennis, if only in potential resale value, to make it worth checking him out, giving him a contract, seeing if his stock rises. If Evatt truly doesn't like him, he doesn't even have to play him - send him back to Vale for this season, then somewhere else next (possibly Vale again if they go up). I just can't help feeling we might be losing an asset - literally, financially, as much as tactically - and possibly through a little managerial stubbornness.
I'm in the boat of any contract for Politic when it was offered was probably generous given the situation. And I'm sensing that he's not all that fussed about coming back here. He might blame Evatt for that. Evatt might blame him.

But its an easy equation for me. He's had an offer. If he doesn't want it then fine. But I'm confident that we will find better players in Jan - if we don't then its very disappointing. And keeping him for more than Evatt/club feel he's worth doesn't seem sensible just because he's young.

If it were me I'd bring him back January to assess his attitude and fitness and see if he's fits in and is persuaded. But I sense Evatt isn't in the mood for that.

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:56 pm

Listen to Ian Evatt on Politic here...not sounding overly friendly...

https://twitter.com/BBCRMsport/status/1 ... 45446?s=20

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:01 pm

irie Cee Bee wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:56 pm
DSB, did we not offer him a contract which he has refused to sign. That's an indication that we saw something in him, but he seems to value himself higher than Evatt value him at the moment.
We offered him an extension to the contract he's on, and he hasn't yet signed that extension, which is his right. I'd rather he had, but I see why he kept his options open, and still will. I don't mind keeping options open, which is precisely what I'd be doing from our side in January. From the noises Evatt's making it sounds like it won't happen, and while I'm not party to all the conversations, I just think that's a shame and a potential financial loss.
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:37 pm
I'm in the boat of any contract for Sarcevic when it was offered was probably generous given the situation. And I'm sensing that he's not all that fussed about coming back here. He might blame Evatt for that. Evatt might blame him.

But its an easy equation for me. He's had an offer. If he doesn't want it then fine. But I'm confident that we will find better players in Jan - if we don't then its very disappointing.
I've just changed one name in your post, and now I agree with it. Funny how it goes. :D

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:03 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:56 pm
Listen to Ian Evatt on Politic here...not sounding overly friendly...

https://twitter.com/BBCRMsport/status/1 ... 45446?s=20
Yep. As we say, looks like his mind's made up.

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by nicholaldo » Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:59 pm

I can't blame Politic if he thinks his career would be better served by waiting and hoping to attract a contract offer from elsewhere. He's demonstrating he's capable of contributing with goals and assists despite relatively little playing time and I can see a club at the level he's currently playing at wanting to sign him on better, longer terms than we're offering.

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:47 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:01 pm
irie Cee Bee wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:56 pm
DSB, did we not offer him a contract which he has refused to sign. That's an indication that we saw something in him, but he seems to value himself higher than Evatt value him at the moment.
We offered him an extension to the contract he's on, and he hasn't yet signed that extension, which is his right. I'd rather he had, but I see why he kept his options open, and still will. I don't mind keeping options open, which is precisely what I'd be doing from our side in January. From the noises Evatt's making it sounds like it won't happen, and while I'm not party to all the conversations, I just think that's a shame and a potential financial loss.
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:37 pm
I'm in the boat of any contract for Sarcevic when it was offered was probably generous given the situation. And I'm sensing that he's not all that fussed about coming back here. He might blame Evatt for that. Evatt might blame him.

But its an easy equation for me. He's had an offer. If he doesn't want it then fine. But I'm confident that we will find better players in Jan - if we don't then its very disappointing.
I've just changed one name in your post, and now I agree with it. Funny how it goes. :D
Sarce was captain and selected to start every game bar one, in which he came on off the bench. I think the situations are markedly different and it’s a bit absurd to compare them.

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:10 pm

What you call absurd, I call instructive. To me, there's clear similarities between the two situations: contract dispute; big personalities; Evatt being, erm, forceful. Club offers player a contract, player thinks he deserves better, player drops down the divisions, manager stays in seat.

Yes, there will be differences in pay-scale, but only in that we were – I think it's incredibly safe to presume - offering much more money to a man who's 30 in March than to one who's eight years younger and therefore resellable.

In each case, I suspect the manager could have played his hand better. He's still got a lot to learn. I hope he does. And it seems to me that this in an opportunity to start. But we'll never know. Maybe there was a massive argument.

Funnily enough, it might not be a bad fit if Dennis joins Stockport... although they seem to prefer mutton to lamb.

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by Prufrock » Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:25 pm

I think there are parallels. In both cases I think (assume for Sarc) that we made an offer of what we think there are worth and they thought they were worth more.

Nothing wrong in principle with that (as long as we're getting that valuation right) but something's up for the Captain to be leaving on mid October. My money is in Sarc threw a wobbler but it's conjecture.
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Re: Loan Watch

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:28 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:10 pm
What you call absurd, I call instructive. To me, there's clear similarities between the two situations: contract dispute; big personalities; Evatt being, erm, forceful. Club offers player a contract, player thinks he deserves better, player drops down the divisions, manager stays in seat.

Yes, there will be differences in pay-scale, but only in that we were – I think it's incredibly safe to presume - offering much more money to a man who's 30 in March than to one who's eight years younger and therefore resellable.

In each case, I suspect the manager could have played his hand better. He's still got a lot to learn. I hope he does. And it seems to me that this in an opportunity to start. But we'll never know. Maybe there was a massive argument.

Funnily enough, it might not be a bad fit if Dennis joins Stockport... although they seem to prefer mutton to lamb.
The difference is I don’t think anyone would have complained if we chose to sell or move Sarce on in January for those reasons. The issue was releasing him in October when we were three months from a window and already light in midfield.

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by LeverEnd » Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:35 pm

That interview is a bit embarrassing from Evatt and unnecessarily dismissive. He's such an overly defensive baby at times. I've always though Politic wouldn't play for us again since he went on loan and now I'm 100% convinced.
I'm also not one to cry over lost youngsters though. Most end up doing nothing
...

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:05 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:35 pm
That interview is a bit embarrassing from Evatt and unnecessarily dismissive. He's such an overly defensive baby at times. I've always though Politic wouldn't play for us again since he went on loan and now I'm 100% convinced.
I'm also not one to cry over lost youngsters though. Most end up doing nothing
The difference where Dennis is concerned, as opposed to Darcy, Brockbank etc is for me he's already proven he can perform at this level as he did in Keith Hills interrupted season. Perhaps there are question marks regarding his fitness and if he fully recovers from the serious injury.
I don't think we'll see him in a Bolton shirt again, which is a shame.
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Re: Loan Watch

Post by The_Gun » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:20 pm

Given we can only recall him in January, it might not make sense for Evatt to be talking that prospect up right now. If Vale knew they were going to lose him shortly then perhaps they’d be disincentivised from giving him game time.

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:45 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:20 pm
Given we can only recall him in January, it might not make sense for Evatt to be talking that prospect up right now. If Vale knew they were going to lose him shortly then perhaps they’d be disincentivised from giving him game time.
How cloak n dagger! :D

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:15 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:45 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:20 pm
Given we can only recall him in January, it might not make sense for Evatt to be talking that prospect up right now. If Vale knew they were going to lose him shortly then perhaps they’d be disincentivised from giving him game time.
How cloak n dagger! :D
Might be "How Political" :D .....A lot of if's and but's around it all. I'm thinking the fans are giving it more thought time then Evatt right now...
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Re: Loan Watch

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:53 am

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... port-vale/

Many more words from Evatt on Politic.

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by The_Gun » Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:48 am

I don't really buy his stance, to be honest. I think Evatt/the club are probably pissed off he's not signed a contract extension after we've done all his rehab, and he's now been told he's free to leave. Shame.

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Re: Loan Watch

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:12 am

The_Gun wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:48 am
I don't really buy his stance, to be honest. I think Evatt/the club are probably pissed off he's not signed a contract extension after we've done all his rehab, and he's now been told he's free to leave. Shame.
I don't think Evatt would recall him, even if he signed the thing from what he's saying in that interview. So if you park the non-signing thing, it sorta doesn't matter and it sounds like Evatt has some midfield plans for additions that would put Politic further down the pecking order. Whatever we think is the "reality" if Evatt doesn't have enough confidence in him, it isn't ever going to work - regardless of the Contract position.

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