Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:10 am

LeverEnd wrote:
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Disappointed but not distraught.
I'm disappointed too like you but obviously its not the end of the world. I don't get the 'it doesn't matter at all' argument. Mate was watching Crewe at a sold-out Elland Rd last night, would've been great to have something like that next round, but lots to play for and the season has started well.
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Bruce Rioja » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:11 am

nicholaldo wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:07 pm
irie Cee Bee wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:01 pm
Penalties are a lottery.

They aren't, to be fair. They're a test of nerve and technique.
I absolutely agree with this. Surely only a lottery if your penalty-taking method is to simply belt it one randomly, no?

I remember Hoddle saying something along the lines of there being no point in practicing taking penalties because you can't replicate the pressure of the situation. Oh well, perhaps we should tell the world's best Golfers to stop wasting their time on practice greens then?
Surely it's because of the pressure of the situation that players should be making a point of practicing their penalty taking techniques ahead of a cup tie and not resigning their fate to the whole thing being 'a lottery'?!
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:50 am

DJBlu wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:26 am


Can't forget the lad helped us to promotion last season. Don't want to write him off as I just think it's in his head and his confidence is low. Must be difficult falling down the pecking order later in your career.As Insano says, we win together and lose together.
You never know, it might be the jolt up the arse he needed.
As the least qualified (in terms of games seen at least ) I'd go with this. Support from his mates and the boss can only have a positive effect, whereas talk of dropping him and getting shut can only destroy him further. Move on and fight back. We didn't lose a match, just a penalty exercise.
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:56 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:50 am
DJBlu wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:26 am


Can't forget the lad helped us to promotion last season. Don't want to write him off as I just think it's in his head and his confidence is low. Must be difficult falling down the pecking order later in your career.As Insano says, we win together and lose together.
You never know, it might be the jolt up the arse he needed.
As the least qualified (in terms of games seen at least ) I'd go with this. Support from his mates and the boss can only have a positive effect, whereas talk of dropping him and getting shut can only destroy him further. Move on and fight back. We didn't lose a match, just a penalty exercise.
Thirded. I just see a man low on confidence. Needs to be knocked less and supported because on paper he’s our most proven forward at a high level. On paper. I think he will have a part to play this season.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:54 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:11 am
I remember Hoddle saying something along the lines of there being no point in practicing taking penalties because you can't replicate the pressure of the situation.
Annoyingly, Evatt is of the same belief. After Barnsley:

"I don’t think you can (practice) because you can’t replicate being at a stadium with that pressure and the fans shouting and singing. That’s impossible to replicate on the training ground."

I agree that you can't replicate that feeling, but what you do is keep practicing the technical aspect of it until you have the sort of utter faith in your ability that no amount of booing can shake. Your golf analogy is perfect and it reminds me of the old aphorism - usually credited to Gary Player, although he himself acknowledged it originated elsewhere - that "the more I practise, the luckier I get."

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by boltonboris » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:44 pm

A disappointing performance, particularly second half. A poor game all round really and I don't any of the fringe players have played their way into contention
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:54 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:54 am
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:11 am
I remember Hoddle saying something along the lines of there being no point in practicing taking penalties because you can't replicate the pressure of the situation.
Annoyingly, Evatt is of the same belief. After Barnsley:

"I don’t think you can (practice) because you can’t replicate being at a stadium with that pressure and the fans shouting and singing. That’s impossible to replicate on the training ground."

I agree that you can't replicate that feeling, but what you do is keep practicing the technical aspect of it until you have the sort of utter faith in your ability that no amount of booing can shake. Your golf analogy is perfect and it reminds me of the old aphorism - usually credited to Gary Player, although he himself acknowledged it originated elsewhere - that "the more I practise, the luckier I get."
It’s like a driving test for me. The more practice the more likely you are to pass just through the sheer reputation of it. I think penalties need practice. However I’d say probably practicing for a 2nd round Carabao cup game is a bit OTT.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:11 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:56 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:50 am
DJBlu wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:26 am


Can't forget the lad helped us to promotion last season. Don't want to write him off as I just think it's in his head and his confidence is low. Must be difficult falling down the pecking order later in your career.As Insano says, we win together and lose together.
You never know, it might be the jolt up the arse he needed.
As the least qualified (in terms of games seen at least ) I'd go with this. Support from his mates and the boss can only have a positive effect, whereas talk of dropping him and getting shut can only destroy him further. Move on and fight back. We didn't lose a match, just a penalty exercise.
Thirded. I just see a man low on confidence. Needs to be knocked less and supported because on paper he’s our most proven forward at a high level. On paper. I think he will have a part to play this season.
Delf's form tailed off last season from a really promising start but he's still capable of popping up with a vital goal or assist. I'd agree, he does seem low on both form and confidence and i imagine he must be gutted at missing his penalty.

Just on his form and confidence , I've seen lots on social media about him appearing lazy or disinterested. This is no slur on anyone here, and im happy to be corrected, but can anyone remember those descriptions ever being used for a player who isn't black?
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Bruce Rioja » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:35 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:54 pm
However I’d say probably practicing for a 2nd round Carabao cup game is a bit OTT.
Well, the evidence clearly points to the contrary. Maybe they should've had a couple of days off too then? :conf:
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by DJBlu » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:41 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:11 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:56 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:50 am
DJBlu wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:26 am


Can't forget the lad helped us to promotion last season. Don't want to write him off as I just think it's in his head and his confidence is low. Must be difficult falling down the pecking order later in your career.As Insano says, we win together and lose together.
You never know, it might be the jolt up the arse he needed.
As the least qualified (in terms of games seen at least ) I'd go with this. Support from his mates and the boss can only have a positive effect, whereas talk of dropping him and getting shut can only destroy him further. Move on and fight back. We didn't lose a match, just a penalty exercise.
Thirded. I just see a man low on confidence. Needs to be knocked less and supported because on paper he’s our most proven forward at a high level. On paper. I think he will have a part to play this season.
Delf's form tailed off last season from a really promising start but he's still capable of popping up with a vital goal or assist. I'd agree, he does seem low on both form and confidence and i imagine he must be gutted at missing his penalty.

Just on his form and confidence , I've seen lots on social media about him appearing lazy or disinterested. This is no slur on anyone here, and im happy to be corrected, but can anyone remember those descriptions ever being used for a player who isn't black?
Crawford was extremely frustrating last season when he was dispossessed. Almost feck it attutude and was rightly told so.

I don't think it's a race issue as Bolton fans are quick on the backs of lazy players regardless.

I wouldn't say it's him being lazy or disinterested more rabbit in the headlights or wtf is happening and when did this game become difficult?

I'd be inclined to throw him up top in the middle as cover for Doyle as he can finish. The chances of him doing a bleep test on the wings and beating players are disappearing with each day.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by truewhite15 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:00 pm

Interesting one re: Delf. Certainly has the pedigree but, as others have said, his form has stumbled off a very tall cliff in the last 8 months or so.

I'd agree that it looks like a confidence issue, but also a positioning issue - he was never lightning-quick to begin with and he's only going to get slower, so playing him wide doesn't seem like a great move. Similarly, the times he's played this season have seen him feature in a starting 11 with large numbers of similarly ring-rusty players - i.e., the ones who haven't been in the starting line-up at the weekends. Wonder whether his form might improve were he to play in either the Sarce or Doyle roles alongside the other ten usual candidates?

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Prufrock » Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:02 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:11 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:56 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:50 am
DJBlu wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:26 am


Can't forget the lad helped us to promotion last season. Don't want to write him off as I just think it's in his head and his confidence is low. Must be difficult falling down the pecking order later in your career.As Insano says, we win together and lose together.
You never know, it might be the jolt up the arse he needed.
As the least qualified (in terms of games seen at least ) I'd go with this. Support from his mates and the boss can only have a positive effect, whereas talk of dropping him and getting shut can only destroy him further. Move on and fight back. We didn't lose a match, just a penalty exercise.
Thirded. I just see a man low on confidence. Needs to be knocked less and supported because on paper he’s our most proven forward at a high level. On paper. I think he will have a part to play this season.
Delf's form tailed off last season from a really promising start but he's still capable of popping up with a vital goal or assist. I'd agree, he does seem low on both form and confidence and i imagine he must be gutted at missing his penalty.

Just on his form and confidence , I've seen lots on social media about him appearing lazy or disinterested. This is no slur on anyone here, and im happy to be corrected, but can anyone remember those descriptions ever being used for a player who isn't black?
It definitely gets used for white players but it *feels* (could be very wrong) to me like it's more of a go to for black players.

I don't like anyway. I very rarely think it's a lack of effort, it's usually a lack of confidence that looks like a lack of effort.

I'd have got rid of him in the summer if poss. He was one of the early "big name" signings so probably on a wedge (though hard to find a taker I guess), and I don't know what he is in our system. He looked good playing in a two with Doyle then dropped off and I don't remember him having a good game at all since we changed shape. Could be confidence but I don't think he's up to this level anymore.

Given it looks like 433 you need a minimum of 6 across that front 3, and ideally 7. We've got 7 I reckon. Daps, Isgrove, Doyle, Baka, Kachunga, Amaechi and Delf. Two of those are out until October at least it sounds. Another is very short on fitness. If we don't sign another I think we're going to need Delf one the next few months, and that doesn't fill me with confidence!
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:10 pm

DJBlu wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:41 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:11 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:56 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:50 am
DJBlu wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:26 am


Can't forget the lad helped us to promotion last season. Don't want to write him off as I just think it's in his head and his confidence is low. Must be difficult falling down the pecking order later in your career.As Insano says, we win together and lose together.
You never know, it might be the jolt up the arse he needed.
As the least qualified (in terms of games seen at least ) I'd go with this. Support from his mates and the boss can only have a positive effect, whereas talk of dropping him and getting shut can only destroy him further. Move on and fight back. We didn't lose a match, just a penalty exercise.
Thirded. I just see a man low on confidence. Needs to be knocked less and supported because on paper he’s our most proven forward at a high level. On paper. I think he will have a part to play this season.
Delf's form tailed off last season from a really promising start but he's still capable of popping up with a vital goal or assist. I'd agree, he does seem low on both form and confidence and i imagine he must be gutted at missing his penalty.

Just on his form and confidence , I've seen lots on social media about him appearing lazy or disinterested. This is no slur on anyone here, and im happy to be corrected, but can anyone remember those descriptions ever being used for a player who isn't black?
Crawford was extremely frustrating last season when he was dispossessed. Almost feck it attutude and was rightly told so.

I don't think it's a race issue as Bolton fans are quick on the backs of lazy players regardless.

I wouldn't say it's him being lazy or disinterested more rabbit in the headlights or wtf is happening and when did this game become difficult?

I'd be inclined to throw him up top in the middle as cover for Doyle as he can finish. The chances of him doing a bleep test on the wings and beating players are disappearing with each day.
It’s not a conscious race issue but is it a subconscious one?

Lee didn’t get stick. Delf did. Delf is called lazy by some. I’m unconvinced that isn’t for some a subconscious prejudice thing.

But anyway. It’s circumstances for me and they dictate us hoping Delf can contribute this season. Doubt we have luxury of replacing him at least in this window.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by The_Gun » Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:54 pm

Yeah, whatever people's opinions on Delf, it's extremely unlikely we're moving him on in this window, so let's get behind him and hope he can turn things around.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Bruce Rioja » Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:26 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:54 pm
Yeah, whatever people's opinions on Delf, it's extremely unlikely we're moving him on in this window, so let's get behind him and hope he can turn things around.
Indeed. I am concerned though that our bellend contingent might start to think that by giving him the 'Jermaine Beckford treatment' it'll somehow help him return to previous form.
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:53 pm

truewhite15 wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:00 pm
I'd agree that it looks like a confidence issue, but also a positioning issue - he was never lightning-quick to begin with and he's only going to get slower, so playing him wide doesn't seem like a great move. Similarly, the times he's played this season have seen him feature in a starting 11 with large numbers of similarly ring-rusty players - i.e., the ones who haven't been in the starting line-up at the weekends. Wonder whether his form might improve were he to play in either the Sarce or Doyle roles alongside the other ten usual candidates?
Trouble is I don't think he's anywhere near as good as either our No9 or our No10. Obviously we need cover, rotation, fresh legs etc but he doesn't strike me as a line-leader or a play-linker.

Also worth saying (not that you were really claiming otherwise) that Evatt doesn't let his 9 and 10 loaf about the joint. As noted earlier, Doyle does a lot of unselfish off-ball running to drag defenders arond and create space. Meanwhile Sarce has run himself so hard the boss has felt the need to sub him off.

With Delf sadly in a form trough, I don't think now is the time to redeploy him. To me he always looked best facing goal, running at defenders, trying to make something happen, and he looked better coming off the left. Dapo is now The Man for that but Delf can give him 15 minutes' rest at the end.

Manpower shortage means he'll have to appear, and try to play through it. We've basically got a fit front three of Doyle, Dapo and Isgrove; then the half-fit Kachunga and the off-form Delf. Baka and Amaechi will offer options but not for a month (Baka) or two (Amaechi). Evatt wanted another forward anyway; fitness and form might mean he tries to get two, but that would depend on shipping out the unwanted Cs in midfield (Crawford and Comley).

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by DJBlu » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:07 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:10 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:41 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:11 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:56 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:50 am
DJBlu wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:26 am


Can't forget the lad helped us to promotion last season. Don't want to write him off as I just think it's in his head and his confidence is low. Must be difficult falling down the pecking order later in your career.As Insano says, we win together and lose together.
You never know, it might be the jolt up the arse he needed.
As the least qualified (in terms of games seen at least ) I'd go with this. Support from his mates and the boss can only have a positive effect, whereas talk of dropping him and getting shut can only destroy him further. Move on and fight back. We didn't lose a match, just a penalty exercise.
Thirded. I just see a man low on confidence. Needs to be knocked less and supported because on paper he’s our most proven forward at a high level. On paper. I think he will have a part to play this season.
Delf's form tailed off last season from a really promising start but he's still capable of popping up with a vital goal or assist. I'd agree, he does seem low on both form and confidence and i imagine he must be gutted at missing his penalty.

Just on his form and confidence , I've seen lots on social media about him appearing lazy or disinterested. This is no slur on anyone here, and im happy to be corrected, but can anyone remember those descriptions ever being used for a player who isn't black?
Crawford was extremely frustrating last season when he was dispossessed. Almost feck it attutude and was rightly told so.

I don't think it's a race issue as Bolton fans are quick on the backs of lazy players regardless.

I wouldn't say it's him being lazy or disinterested more rabbit in the headlights or wtf is happening and when did this game become difficult?

I'd be inclined to throw him up top in the middle as cover for Doyle as he can finish. The chances of him doing a bleep test on the wings and beating players are disappearing with each day.
It’s not a conscious race issue but is it a subconscious one?

Lee didn’t get stick. Delf did. Delf is called lazy by some. I’m unconvinced that isn’t for some a subconscious prejudice thing.

But anyway. It’s circumstances for me and they dictate us hoping Delf can contribute this season. Doubt we have luxury of replacing him at least in this window.
Lee would have if he'd taken the 5th penalty. lt's the nature of the beast.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:36 pm

6th pen, to be pedantic!
Difference with Lee is that he came in and has been generally excellent. Delf looked good but then has contributed next to nothing for over half a year.
I think he's in the same boat as Crawford in that neither is going to get many games so I'd definitely get rid and bring in a young loanee that we might get to keep, for example.
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:43 pm

Just on the order of takers, it's probably telling that Delf wasn't in the first five volunteers but took the sixth. I don't know, but it's entirely possible that - having decided the first five - we didn't nominate the first sudden-death taker until the last minute, and at that point Delf pushed himself forward to do it. Otherwise it would have been a defender or Gilks. (No defender took a spot-kick against Barnsley, either.)

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Burnden Paddock » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:14 pm

I’m not really sure what to make of Delf at the moment. I wouldn’t say he’s lazy or disinterested. Maybe it is just a lack of confidence. The only thing of note he did all night, shocking penalty aside, was beat a man (brilliantly) on their byline before being hacked down. His loss of form does seem to have coincided with the birth of his child. Maybe there’s something relating to that which has caused the dip. Who knows? I know I’m not the only one that felt certain he was going to miss as he stepped up. On the plus side, at least he did step up! Having said all that, why the feck didn’t someone say to Lee, ‘Nah, you’re alright mate’, when he volunteered to take one? His finishing has been woeful since around Newport away last season.

Moving onto the right back position and specifically last night, as much as I love Brocky I don’t see him ever being a regular in that or any other position. I don’t think he’s strong enough or has the positional sense to make it at this level. Like Jones, he’s better going forward but never seems to know when to lay it off. He gets very excitable, puts his head down and motors before generally playing the wrong ball at the wrong time. It was so noticeable within 10 mins of Jones replacing him, how often the latter got in behind the full backs. I think Brocky managed it once, before blazing across goal. Tbf Jones didn’t do much better once he got in behind last night, but he is far better in that position and has improved massively from this time last year, chipping with a few important goals.

One other thing. I hate those feckin pie eating, six fingered cnuts!

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