Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

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Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:51 pm

A proper local Derby, in as much as the two towns are only some eleven miles or so apart. Local authorities will insist it's a Greater Manchester Derby..well, let em. I'll go for Lancs. I see they're calling a pie on a barm, a "Wiganburger" now. Think well stick with pasties. Should be a cracker. Blow that whistle ref.... :Jedi:
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:07 pm

I can't bloody stand Wigan!

It was alright when they were the tinpot Tossers down the road. We'd take over their laughable ground when we were struggling and stuck down at their level and just remind them how irrelevant they are.

Then along comes the old, racist cripple and not only do they move away from Cowshed park and its grassy knoll, they actually started to build a decent team too. Them doing well once, in some competition or other, still sticks in my bloody throat and i wonder if we lost out on a generation of fans from Leigh, Tyldesley, Atherton etc as kids chose to watch them or Man U, instead of us. I do have a genuine fear that in 50 years time they could be a bigger club than us. Thankfully I wont be around to see it if it ever happens.

Credit where it's due. They appear to have rebuilt quickly and well, after their former owner came to his senses and pulled the plug. I think they'll be serious contenders to go up this year and i think they'll be too strong for us tomorrow. They look pretty good on set pieces from what I've seen, so sods law says we'll lose 0-1 to a McClean free kick.
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:49 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:07 pm
I can't bloody stand Wigan!

It was alright when they were the tinpot Tossers down the road. We'd take over their laughable ground when we were struggling and stuck down at their level and just remind them how irrelevant they are.

Then along comes the old, racist cripple and not only do they move away from Cowshed park and its grassy knoll, they actually started to build a decent team too. Them doing well once, in some competition or other, still sticks in my bloody throat and i wonder if we lost out on a generation of fans from Leigh, Tyldesley, Atherton etc as kids chose to watch them or Man U, instead of us. I do have a genuine fear that in 50 years time they could be a bigger club than us. Thankfully I wont be around to see it if it ever happens.

Credit where it's due. They appear to have rebuilt quickly and well, after their former owner came to his senses and pulled the plug. I think they'll be serious contenders to go up this year and i think they'll be too strong for us tomorrow. They look pretty good on set pieces from what I've seen, so sods law says we'll lose 0-1 to a McClean free kick.
Bloody hell - people think I'm negative but I feel this post deserves some sort of award.

Wigan can do whatever they want, they will NEVER EVER EVER EVER be as big as Bolton Wanderers. 10 years, 50 years, 100 years, years never. Its just the way things are.

They've spent a lot of money again - and recently launched a fans fund to help fund the running of the football club. I suspect in a year or two they'll be back in financial strife again and then we'll go through the whole thing again.

I genuinely have quite a lot of empathy and even like a lot of NW clubs - Blackburn lived the dream and had a hell of a ride - they are a solid club who have been let down, Preston helped us out when we hit trouble, Rochdale and Oldham are always get away trips and apart from the odd bit of nonsense you see on social media their fans have always been very sound at least in my experience, Man City - can't help but enjoy the ride their long suffering fans went on (not so keen on the nouveau Citeh lot but the old fans don't mind them). I honestly can't say I've ever conversed with a Wigan fan who I didn't think was a dick. Obviously that's anecdotal and bad sampling. But there we go.

I don't really see them as rivals. I'd go tomorrow but I hate the whole thing about going there our fans behaving like morons their fans - its a bunch of kids goading each other. If we get through tomorrow injury free I'll be happy. As it is it'll be a tight game but the crowd will once again be a reminder of who the proper famous football club is and who the pretenders are. That'll never change and I'm shocked any Bolton fan of longstanding really cares at all about Wigan and what they're doing or otherwise.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:57 pm

I always thought i had a sunny disposition but Christ on a bike, when Insane calls me negative.. :D

Like it or not, they're our closest rivals now in terms of location and size but please don't get me wrong, im loving watching us again right now, just that i think we go into tomorrow's game as 2nd favourites. I'll live with that, so long as we finish above them in the league.
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:25 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:57 pm
I always thought i had a sunny disposition but Christ on a bike, when Insane calls me negative.. :D

Like it or not, they're our closest rivals now in terms of location and size but please don't get me wrong, im loving watching us again right now, just that i think we go into tomorrow's game as 2nd favourites. I'll live with that, so long as we finish above them in the league.
I don't get that? We're unbeaten - above them in the league and have momentum. I've no doubt we're a bit light with injuries and probably need to rest a few but I'm sure they are the same.

Even game for me. Doesn't mean they can't batter us or us them on the day but I don't think we're going in as underdogs at all.

Me personally? I'd rest most of the team and take what comes because I'd rather beat Cambridge on Saturday and keep the league run going because we're not winning the Carabao cup and a few days bragging rights doesn't interest me at all. But I suspect IE will go with strongest team.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Prufrock » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:54 pm

I think he'll go similar as Barnsley: where there are players who are close to getting into the first team (so arguably not really "weakening" the side) he'll make changes. Otherwise the same.

So Gilks, Lee, Baptiste, Kachunga in. Maybe Gordon depending on Rico and Johnston's fitness.

I think: Gilks, Jones (maybe Brockers for various reasons), Santos, Baptiste, Johnston, MJ, Lee, Sarc, Kachunga, Doyle, Dapo.
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by The_Gun » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:59 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:25 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:57 pm
I always thought i had a sunny disposition but Christ on a bike, when Insane calls me negative.. :D

Like it or not, they're our closest rivals now in terms of location and size but please don't get me wrong, im loving watching us again right now, just that i think we go into tomorrow's game as 2nd favourites. I'll live with that, so long as we finish above them in the league.
I don't get that? We're unbeaten - above them in the league and have momentum. I've no doubt we're a bit light with injuries and probably need to rest a few but I'm sure they are the same.

Even game for me. Doesn't mean they can't batter us or us them on the day but I don't think we're going in as underdogs at all.

Me personally? I'd rest most of the team and take what comes because I'd rather beat Cambridge on Saturday and keep the league run going because we're not winning the Carabao cup and a few days bragging rights doesn't interest me at all. But I suspect IE will go with strongest team.
Best prices available on tomorrow's game are as follows:

Wigan 5/4, Bolton 12/5, Draw 13/5

So we are literal underdogs. If you think it's a 50/50 game, and I'm not saying it's not, then that's a juicy price on a Bolton victory.


I think we should rest any of our first XI who are carrying knocks or who haven't recovered from Saturday, but otherwise play as strong a team as possible. Below is a guess based on very limited information:

Gilks

Brockbank Santos Baptiste Gordon

Lee Williams

Sheehan

Isgrove Kachunga Dapo


Put Sheehan in there because Sarce seems to have been putting in almighty shifts in recent games, but Thomason would be another option for the advanced central role.

1-1 full time, Bolton win on pens.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:28 pm

For the last cup game, which was after the opener v MK Dons, he switched out Gilks for Dixon, Baptiste for Johnston, John for Gordon, Sheehan for Lee, and Dapo for Delf.

Those names show it’s not so much rotation as opportunity: the first two now seem to have become default first-teamers, while Declan John has only finished one game of our first five with Gordon stepping in well. Lee is first reserve in midfield but Delf (subbed after 55 v Barnsley) did less well and didn’t make the next two matchday squads.

Gethin and MJ are the only men to have played all 450 minutes so far, which might tempt Evatt to give them a rest, although they do (touch wood) seem fit lads. Also starting all five have been Sarce and Doyle, but the latter has no obvious direct replacement, at least until Kachunga is match fit (he’s come on in all vie but hasn’t yet played longer than 25 minutes).

Dapo has now played two 90-minute games in a week; last year the only 90-minute game he played was at Bradford. He’s certainly in form, though, so Evatt might be loath to lose him - especially with Delfouneso so disappointing last time and few other options.

Sheehan has also played three 90-minuters in a week, in busy old central midfield, with Sarcevic sacrificed late for Lee in the last two. That might suggest the skipper is out on his feet, and could be rested - probably to the bench - for Saturday.

I think he’ll go Gilks; Jones, Santos, Johnston, Gordon; Williams, Lee, Sarce; Isgrove, Doyle, Dapo. That’d only be three changes, and one of them in goal, but this early sprint of games is essentially a late pre-season to get people up to speed. There’ll be a balance though, and some might be withdrawn if it’s seen as better for them.

Evatt might also be tempted to give first-team minutes to Thomason, who’s been an unused sub in all five games, and/or Brockbank, who’s been an unused sub in the last four after missing the matchday cut against MK. But there is also a Sherpa Van game next midweek as an opportunity for fringe players - within legal limits.

In terms of outcasts, the least-used players are the injured AImson, junior Senior and unwanted Comley and Crawford, with no selections in any matchday 16. Tutte has been an unused sub once, Delf twice plus that start against Barnsley. I suspect Delf will come off the bench and so will Kachunga – but such is the delicate balance of priorities between games and players that not much would surprise me.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by LeverEnd » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:40 pm

I'd be surprised if Kachunga starts, Evatt talked about him having to do background fitness work and being weeks from a start, but if he's keen and looking fitter than anticipated I'd start him and bring Doyle on when he tires. Or Delf if we're winning.
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:22 pm

I think Thomason might get some game time, possibly off the bench. Hope so anyway.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:23 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:49 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:07 pm
I can't bloody stand Wigan!

It was alright when they were the tinpot Tossers down the road. We'd take over their laughable ground when we were struggling and stuck down at their level and just remind them how irrelevant they are.

Then along comes the old, racist cripple and not only do they move away from Cowshed park and its grassy knoll, they actually started to build a decent team too. Them doing well once, in some competition or other, still sticks in my bloody throat and i wonder if we lost out on a generation of fans from Leigh, Tyldesley, Atherton etc as kids chose to watch them or Man U, instead of us. I do have a genuine fear that in 50 years time they could be a bigger club than us. Thankfully I wont be around to see it if it ever happens.

Credit where it's due. They appear to have rebuilt quickly and well, after their former owner came to his senses and pulled the plug. I think they'll be serious contenders to go up this year and i think they'll be too strong for us tomorrow. They look pretty good on set pieces from what I've seen, so sods law says we'll lose 0-1 to a McClean free kick.
Bloody hell - people think I'm negative but I feel this post deserves some sort of award.

Wigan can do whatever they want, they will NEVER EVER EVER EVER be as big as Bolton Wanderers. 10 years, 50 years, 100 years, years never. Its just the way things are.

They've spent a lot of money again - and recently launched a fans fund to help fund the running of the football club. I suspect in a year or two they'll be back in financial strife again and then we'll go through the whole thing again.

I genuinely have quite a lot of empathy and even like a lot of NW clubs - Blackburn lived the dream and had a hell of a ride - they are a solid club who have been let down, Preston helped us out when we hit trouble, Rochdale and Oldham are always get away trips and apart from the odd bit of nonsense you see on social media their fans have always been very sound at least in my experience, Man City - can't help but enjoy the ride their long suffering fans went on (not so keen on the nouveau Citeh lot but the old fans don't mind them). I honestly can't say I've ever conversed with a Wigan fan who I didn't think was a dick. Obviously that's anecdotal and bad sampling. But there we go.

I don't really see them as rivals. I'd go tomorrow but I hate the whole thing about going there our fans behaving like morons their fans - its a bunch of kids goading each other. If we get through tomorrow injury free I'll be happy. As it is it'll be a tight game but the crowd will once again be a reminder of who the proper famous football club is and who the pretenders are. That'll never change and I'm shocked any Bolton fan of longstanding really cares at all about Wigan and what they're doing or otherwise.
You tell 'em, Insano. :-) Did a quick glance at how often we'd played other localish teams on 11 v 11

Blackburn - 172
Preston - 146
City - 125
Utd - 121
Bury - 79
Oldham - 57
Wigan - 47
Tranmere - 40
Rochdale - 20

They hardly make a dint. Tinpot.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by nicholaldo » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:52 pm

They don't hold much significance for me either. I think it depends partially on age/online presence and geographic location. Bolton is a big town and I live on the side furthest away from Wigan.

I have to admit I found Iles' attempts to big this fixture up this week to be embarrassing, but clearly it matters to plenty of our supporters and I think Evatt might factor that into his decision making and play a strong team, perhaps even the strongest possible team.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:02 am

I think Iles and his Wigan counterpart have cooked all this up between them…the McLean interview was the icing on the cake. Anyway let’s not pretend we won’t enjoy it if Mcleans booted off the park tonight and our away majority of fans are celebrating a win.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:50 am

nicholaldo wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:52 pm
They don't hold much significance for me either.
Nor I, and all my mother's side of the family are from there (and one of my brothers was born there). I just remember that when I was a kid my Grandad would continually complain about them winning the NPL every year but not being elected to the league because they are.............. tin pot ;)
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:30 am

"If anyone on here or anyone else reading this forum hasn't got a ticket for tomorrow and is able to go,I urge them to please get a ticket.Do we really want to be outnumbered by that lot at our own ground?"

One poster even suggested the possibility of a "five figure" crowd....

Tin. Pot.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:30 am

My time as a terrace freshman coincided with the new kids achieving their first period of parity with their hated rivals. We played them 23 times in just under a decade 1983-93 and a results record of W10 D4 L9 suggests this was close competition. They also won at Burnden in 83, 86 and 87 (twice) so they were hardly irrelevant.

After clambering about Rioch's rocket we left them behind for a bit, but they caught up 12 years later and we had another hard-fought, finely-balanced decade 2005-2015. Of the 22 games we won 7, drew 8 and lost 7.

We may not like it, but Wigan have spent two of the last three decades as decent rivals, and some of it as slightly superior. It felt odd in '87 when we played them in the League Cup as, for the first time ever, a team in a lower division than them; when we were beating them it was fun to sing "Third Division rubbish" at them, but they had the last laugh that night and they've chuckled plenty since.

I'd love us to be much better than them, but the facts are we're not. It would help if we won tonight, though. It matters, and it should matter. Evatt has said there's no bad time to have a derby and I like that idea: it should be something that inspires players and fans. And for all our middle-aged distaste about keyboard warriors (always ironic on a forum) – if nobody cared, the tickets wouldn't sell out in eight minutes. That's part proximity but it's also a chance to slay demons.

Rioch dismantled Wigan and we left them behind. He also led us to win at Bury for the first time in 63 years. These things matter, and so they should. They help a team evolve, they develop a bond, and they can inspire further success.

COYWM.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Whitesince63 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:31 am

Not much respect for Wigan on here considering their impressive performance since joining the league. PL participants and FA Cup winners in that time so I do think they deserve some credit for that. I don’t especially like Wiggin but I do have to accept, like it or not, that they are our nearest neighbours after Bury's demise and they are by definition our main “local” rivals. I think as the years go by, younger generations will accept that more than us older ones but I’m sure if I was a Wigan fan, I’d know in my heart that they are not as big a club as Wanderers.

I’d use Chelsea as a comparison. Today they are viewed as a “huge” club but it’s only really since Abramovic and his money that has elevated them. To most older fans, Chelsea will never have the credibility of Spurs and Arsenal who are the true London mega clubs. City to an extent are the same against United. So in a nutshell I think it’s a generational thing of who the big clubs are at any particular point of time, so in Wigan’s case, with the right ownership, they could well be “bigger” than us at some point. I personally don’t ever see that happening whoever owns them but for the time being I’m comfortable in the fact that we are currently miles bigger that they are and likely to be so in my lifetime.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Whitesince63 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:33 am

Whitesince63 wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:31 am
Not much respect for Wigan on here considering their impressive performance since joining the league. PL participants and FA Cup winners in that time so I do think they deserve some credit for that. I don’t especially like Wiggin but I do have to accept, like it or not, that they are our nearest neighbours after Bury's demise and they are by definition our main “local” rivals. I think as the years go by, younger generations will accept that more than us older ones but I’m sure if I was a Wigan fan, I’d know in my heart that they are not as big a club as Wanderers.

I’d use Chelsea as a comparison. Today they are viewed as a “huge” club but it’s only really since Abramovic and his money that has elevated them. To most older fans, Chelsea will never have the credibility of Spurs and Arsenal who are the true London mega clubs. City to an extent are the same against United. So in a nutshell I think it’s a generational thing of who the big clubs are at any particular point of time, so in Wigan’s case, with the right ownership, they could well be “bigger” than us at some point. I personally don’t ever see that happening whoever owns them but for the time being I’m comfortable in the fact that we are currently miles bigger than they are and likely to be so in my lifetime.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:54 am

We're 13th in the all time Division One table, having played 2,400 more games than them in it. A lot of that is long time past memories. But they're part of what we are.

I did a lot of scrolling to get to Wigan.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:08 am

All this "history" and "big club" stuff is exactly what we scorn in, say Sheffield Wednesday fans.

Ain't no such thing as a divine right. Wigan won't give a tin cack about us winning three FA Cups before the Great Depression, and nor should they. What they will care about - even if they cloak it in "it's only the cup" - is if we hand them their arses on a plate.

I didn't hear anything about the relative tinpotness of Lincoln, who were non-league half a decade ago. Quite right too: last season they were one of this division's best teams. If history was all that, last midweek's win was actually humiliatingly narrow.

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