Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Prufrock » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:23 pm

Well sure but I don't think that example works. I distinctly remember Crawford getting stick for not being arsed not trying etc pre-xmas last year.
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Prufrock » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:30 pm

Interestingly (or not, depending on your view :D ) there's a bias often referred to as "sophistication effect" bias which means that by knowing about e.g. confirmation bias you become *more* biased yourself, essentially because you can use the existence of all these other biases to dismiss arguments which go against your pre-existing view.
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:29 pm

Then again, player x could just be a bit shit. :-)

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Whitesince63 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:39 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:22 pm
Whitesince63 wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:40 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:38 am
Sigh. I was merely asking the question whether the terms lazy and cant be arsed, were terms only attributed to black players. I've no issue with folk being upset about his form, him missing a penalty etc. You were perhaps too busy booing the players taking a knee, to concentrate on what i wrote :wink:

Ha, I’m sure we can all think of people of all colours who fit the bill of being lazy and can’t be arsed Harry! And that’s besides the footballers! 😉

Not the point. Those labels thrown at Delf for no good reason yet Crawford for example when criticised was mainly just given the label of ‘lost it since his injury’.

Delf gets labelled in a way that I think sub consciously in some cases people wouldn’t use for a white player. You can argue that as much as you want and nobody can ever prove it but subconscious bias is a thing.

The only ones in any way relating this to race are you and Harry. Why on earth would you link comments regarding Delfs poor performances to race. You need to look at yourself pal because if perfectly sensible comments on Delf’s activity, or lack of it, are misinterpreted as anything to do with his colour then clearly you are the one with a problem mindset, conscious or subconscious. There’s absolutely nothing subconscious about Delf playing poorly since January, it’s fact, he’s been way below what he’s capable of and right now isn’t worth a place.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:53 pm

I sniff bullshit. I don't recall Delf having any really significant injury which might attract the comment "but he was great before it happened"

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:56 pm

Whitesince63 wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:39 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:22 pm
Whitesince63 wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:40 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:38 am
Sigh. I was merely asking the question whether the terms lazy and cant be arsed, were terms only attributed to black players. I've no issue with folk being upset about his form, him missing a penalty etc. You were perhaps too busy booing the players taking a knee, to concentrate on what i wrote :wink:

Ha, I’m sure we can all think of people of all colours who fit the bill of being lazy and can’t be arsed Harry! And that’s besides the footballers! 😉

Not the point. Those labels thrown at Delf for no good reason yet Crawford for example when criticised was mainly just given the label of ‘lost it since his injury’.

Delf gets labelled in a way that I think sub consciously in some cases people wouldn’t use for a white player. You can argue that as much as you want and nobody can ever prove it but subconscious bias is a thing.

The only ones in any way relating this to race are you and Harry. Why on earth would you link comments regarding Delfs poor performances to race. You need to look at yourself pal because if perfectly sensible comments on Delf’s activity, or lack of it, are misinterpreted as anything to do with his colour then clearly you are the one with a problem mindset, conscious or subconscious. There’s absolutely nothing subconscious about Delf playing poorly since January, it’s fact, he’s been way below what he’s capable of and right now isn’t worth a place.
Don’t try and be clever. We all saw the very obvious racism in football fans after the euros. We know it exists. Calling Delf lazy and disinterested based on nothing is a slur that seems to apply to black players far more readily than white ones. That’s just an observation.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:01 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:30 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:29 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:26 pm
So was our Ronan any good when he came on?
Yes and no. He was bossed physically by the experienced lads in Barrow's midfield. They knew the ref was generous when they went in hard so they just kept fouling him. He was better than Crawford.
Crawford just can’t be picked Saturday. Definition of lazy.
I mean, you couldn't make it up :-)

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:21 pm

Delf hasn't has an injury, but he has had a baby, and it has become accepted wisdom that the baby is his Kryptonite.

Doyler has also had a baby, which he admits made him so violently ill over summer that he lost several pounds in body weight.

The main difference between the two is that Doyle is still scoring goals. Were Delf banging them in I don't think anybody would care if he were a bright green father of 13.

Personally I suspect it's a little reductive to say "since the baby..." and I'm intrigued by Pru's theory that Delf is a victim of the formation shift. I also think that some players get stereotyped, and that some of those stereotypes can be mapped onto mass-media racist tropes (y'know, Sterling buys his mum bling taps, etc) - but not all of them.

I also think that lots of different people see things in lots of different ways. I've little doubt, sadly, that some who criticise Delf may be what Avenue Q would call "a little bit racist". However, that doesn't mean that everyone who criticises him is.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:24 pm

I agree DSB. But seriously, football fans calling one of their team a bit lazy (I don't necessarily think that's the case with Delf - but await someone finding my "lazy feckker post" :-) )

Lazy and disinterested is a description that probably gets applied to 90% of all footballers at some Club, at some point in their career.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:32 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:24 pm
I agree DSB. But seriously, football fans calling one of their team a bit lazy (I don't necessarily think that's the case with Delf - but await someone finding my "lazy feckker post" :-) )

Lazy and disinterested is a description that probably gets applied to 90% of all footballers at some Club, at some point in their career.
Aye - and the annoying thing for professional grammar police like me is that people actually mean "uninterested"... "disinterested" primarily means professionally neutral, as you would expect of a judge or a financial advisor... although I've heard them accused of being unprofessional too :mrgreen:

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:40 pm

Unconscious bias is unknowingly ascribing negative traits to people because of their race. The fact is that we see it al the time. It’s sub conscious and people don’t realise that’s what they are doing. It isn’t necessarily malicious. It’s sub conscious. But it’s a known fact that black people are more likely to be associated with being lazy. So I do think it’s possible this is the case here. The point is you can never prove it. But whatever.

It’s clearly a difficult topic in the current climate our country exists in. So move on.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:11 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:38 am
Sigh. I was merely asking the question whether the terms lazy and cant be arsed, were terms only attributed to black players. I've no issue with folk being upset about his form, him missing a penalty etc. You were perhaps too busy booing the players taking a knee, to concentrate on what i wrote :wink:
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Harry Genshaw » Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:50 am

:lol: What's the church's position Father? Should we all be racist now?!
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Whitesince63 » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:09 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:56 pm
Whitesince63 wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:39 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:22 pm
Whitesince63 wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:40 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:38 am
Sigh. I was merely asking the question whether the terms lazy and cant be arsed, were terms only attributed to black players. I've no issue with folk being upset about his form, him missing a penalty etc. You were perhaps too busy booing the players taking a knee, to concentrate on what i wrote :wink:

Ha, I’m sure we can all think of people of all colours who fit the bill of being lazy and can’t be arsed Harry! And that’s besides the footballers! 😉

Not the point. Those labels thrown at Delf for no good reason yet Crawford for example when criticised was mainly just given the label of ‘lost it since his injury’.

Delf gets labelled in a way that I think sub consciously in some cases people wouldn’t use for a white player. You can argue that as much as you want and nobody can ever prove it but subconscious bias is a thing.

The only ones in any way relating this to race are you and Harry. Why on earth would you link comments regarding Delfs poor performances to race. You need to look at yourself pal because if perfectly sensible comments on Delf’s activity, or lack of it, are misinterpreted as anything to do with his colour then clearly you are the one with a problem mindset, conscious or subconscious. There’s absolutely nothing subconscious about Delf playing poorly since January, it’s fact, he’s been way below what he’s capable of and right now isn’t worth a place.
Don’t try and be clever. We all saw the very obvious racism in football fans after the euros. We know it exists. Calling Delf lazy and disinterested based on nothing is a slur that seems to apply to black players far more readily than white ones. That’s just an observation.

What happened to those players after the Euros was disgraceful I fully agree Insane and thankfully none of that happened to Delf but we’ll just have to disagree on our observations on the comments lazy and looking disinterested as descriptions levelled at only black players, I really don’t see where you get that from but please don’t insinuate that by using them it implies a racist mindset. That’s totally out of order and uncalled for.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:23 am

Whitesince63 wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:09 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:56 pm
Whitesince63 wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:39 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:22 pm
Whitesince63 wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:40 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:38 am
Sigh. I was merely asking the question whether the terms lazy and cant be arsed, were terms only attributed to black players. I've no issue with folk being upset about his form, him missing a penalty etc. You were perhaps too busy booing the players taking a knee, to concentrate on what i wrote :wink:

Ha, I’m sure we can all think of people of all colours who fit the bill of being lazy and can’t be arsed Harry! And that’s besides the footballers! 😉

Not the point. Those labels thrown at Delf for no good reason yet Crawford for example when criticised was mainly just given the label of ‘lost it since his injury’.

Delf gets labelled in a way that I think sub consciously in some cases people wouldn’t use for a white player. You can argue that as much as you want and nobody can ever prove it but subconscious bias is a thing.

The only ones in any way relating this to race are you and Harry. Why on earth would you link comments regarding Delfs poor performances to race. You need to look at yourself pal because if perfectly sensible comments on Delf’s activity, or lack of it, are misinterpreted as anything to do with his colour then clearly you are the one with a problem mindset, conscious or subconscious. There’s absolutely nothing subconscious about Delf playing poorly since January, it’s fact, he’s been way below what he’s capable of and right now isn’t worth a place.
Don’t try and be clever. We all saw the very obvious racism in football fans after the euros. We know it exists. Calling Delf lazy and disinterested based on nothing is a slur that seems to apply to black players far more readily than white ones. That’s just an observation.

What happened to those players after the Euros was disgraceful I fully agree Insane and thankfully none of that happened to Delf but we’ll just have to disagree on our observations on the comments lazy and looking disinterested as descriptions levelled at only black players, I really don’t see where you get that from but please don’t insinuate that by using them it implies a racist mindset. That’s totally out of order and uncalled for.
I will take no lectures from someone who told Black athletes to ‘stop politicising sport’ in their protest against racism and threw in another completely unnecessary slur about such actions reflecting ones mental health. Thanks but I’ve got you clocked son.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Bruce Rioja » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:53 am

Big Ron Evatt speaks up on the Delf lack-of-form situation. Basically, he'll get all the support he needs, but he needs to respond or we reach the end of the line. Wise words.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... over-form/
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by TANGODANCER » Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:37 am

The Caraboa Cup is history, yesterdays news. I'm still trying to figure out how missing a penalty led to a discussion involving laziness and racism.? Let's leave it with, as Bruce says, Evatt's wise words and move on.. :spank:
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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:09 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:53 am
Big Ron Evatt speaks up on the Delf lack-of-form situation. Basically, he'll get all the support he needs, but he needs to respond or we reach the end of the line. Wise words.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... over-form/
Not sure those are the words I'd have chosen to use in the press, tbf. They are wise words, but maybe some parts better kept in the dressing room.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Whitesince63 » Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:17 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:23 am
Whitesince63 wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:09 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:56 pm
Whitesince63 wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:39 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:22 pm
Whitesince63 wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:40 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:38 am
Sigh. I was merely asking the question whether the terms lazy and cant be arsed, were terms only attributed to black players. I've no issue with folk being upset about his form, him missing a penalty etc. You were perhaps too busy booing the players taking a knee, to concentrate on what i wrote :wink:

Ha, I’m sure we can all think of people of all colours who fit the bill of being lazy and can’t be arsed Harry! And that’s besides the footballers! 😉

Not the point. Those labels thrown at Delf for no good reason yet Crawford for example when criticised was mainly just given the label of ‘lost it since his injury’.

Delf gets labelled in a way that I think sub consciously in some cases people wouldn’t use for a white player. You can argue that as much as you want and nobody can ever prove it but subconscious bias is a thing.

The only ones in any way relating this to race are you and Harry. Why on earth would you link comments regarding Delfs poor performances to race. You need to look at yourself pal because if perfectly sensible comments on Delf’s activity, or lack of it, are misinterpreted as anything to do with his colour then clearly you are the one with a problem mindset, conscious or subconscious. There’s absolutely nothing subconscious about Delf playing poorly since January, it’s fact, he’s been way below what he’s capable of and right now isn’t worth a place.
Don’t try and be clever. We all saw the very obvious racism in football fans after the euros. We know it exists. Calling Delf lazy and disinterested based on nothing is a slur that seems to apply to black players far more readily than white ones. That’s just an observation.

What happened to those players after the Euros was disgraceful I fully agree Insane and thankfully none of that happened to Delf but we’ll just have to disagree on our observations on the comments lazy and looking disinterested as descriptions levelled at only black players, I really don’t see where you get that from but please don’t insinuate that by using them it implies a racist mindset. That’s totally out of order and uncalled for.
I will take no lectures from someone who told Black athletes to ‘stop politicising sport’ in their protest against racism and threw in another completely unnecessary slur about such actions reflecting ones mental health. Thanks but I’ve got you clocked son.

Oh dear, what a star you are. Keep trying Insane, one day you’ll get there.

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Re: Up fer't Caraboa Cup. V. Wigan away 24-08 21. 19-45...

Post by Whitesince63 » Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:19 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:37 am
The Caraboa Cup is history, yesterdays news. I'm still trying to figure out how missing a penalty led to a discussion involving laziness and racism.? Let's leave it with, as Bruce says, Evatt's wise words and move on.. :spank:
I’ll second that 😉

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