Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:17 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:36 am
“Forwards” are a relative concept. I’ve said before that only in table football are formations static and unchanging, so the “phone numbers” in any given formation are only a clue. At ours, Allardyce played a 4-5-1, a 4-1-4-1 or a 4-3-3, depending on who you asked or where the ball was. I’d say our formation this season is similar, with Williams as Warhurst (or Campo or Hierro), Sarce the Nolanesque forward runner, Dapo as Diouf, Izzy as the busy Stelios. SKD was the lone “forward” and very different to Doyler, but each is asked to bring his mates into the game. The wide men are creative attackers but expected to work their balls off too.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I defend their right to have it, but I also have the right to opine that anyone thinking our formation isn’t attacking because it ends in a 1 is taking a hugely simplistic view of it - and that’s before we get into the discussion about the knock-on effects of slinging another body up front in a team whose tactics rely on counter-pressing and overloading.

There is a huge difference between the way this team plays with “one forward” and the way Parky’s doomed Champo battlers lined up in a 4-5———-1.
Yeah I think there are some fairly big differences between how Allardyce set us up and Evatt of course especially the role of the full backs, centre halves and midfield. But you can definitely draw an analogy to the front three and how they move and play. Doyle isn't much different to Anelka in that neither wanted the ball with their back to goal but both can run the channels well.

I'd also say the primary difference between how this teams sets itself up and Parkinson's is not that there is a gap between midfield and the striker but more the back four play a higher line which allows the midfield to sit on top of the front three more. And beyond that when we build, its from the back and the midfield all receive it under pressure. So when we are deeper we are slower in the build up to reduce the gap. You can really say that's down to the players involved and their strengths. Last season there were plenty of games where Doyle was isolated for periods (Salford second half away etc) and that was because we ended up sitting back Parky style to try and not concede.

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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:42 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:17 am


Last season there were plenty of games where Doyle was isolated for periods (Salford second half away etc) and that was because we ended up sitting back Parky style to try and not concede.
I'm of the opinion that this is the "new" football of today, at least in this division. Some teams set out to equalise their chances of not losing by mass defending and spending much time in their own half hoping for a break that might give them a goal chance, Burton a good example. .

Neither Spain or France, masters of possession and strike football, could score against Hungary. Okay, Hungary couldn't score against them, but aggressive defending
gave them draws instead of losses. Thus with some of the teams we play, okay not all.; they'll have figured out now that if they stop us from scoring, high percentage possession means nothing at all after ninety minutes if they keep us out..

Nineties, La Ligue Italian sides did possession almost to the point of boredom and one goal means three points however it's attained. "Walking the ball in" goals is impressive, but means no more than a deflected lash from thirty yards. I hope our lads remember that occasionally.

Amen. ae:)
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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:53 pm

I think we are more incisive and varied in approach this season. There's more willingness to be direct. Last season we were guilty far too often of possession for possession's sake and I felt the exciting football thing was exaggerated based on a handful of games. The style has evolved from what I've seen. Just need them to start knocking the bugger in the net now.
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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:57 pm

One of the reasons the thuggish Brayford got a red...
CS035_Bolton_v_Burton.jpg.gallery.jpg
CS035_Bolton_v_Burton.jpg.gallery.jpg (74.31 KiB) Viewed 192 times
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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:01 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:42 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:17 am


Last season there were plenty of games where Doyle was isolated for periods (Salford second half away etc) and that was because we ended up sitting back Parky style to try and not concede.
I'm of the opinion that this is the "new" football of today, at least in this division. Some teams set out to equalise their chances of not losing by mass defending and spending much time in their own half hoping for a break that might give them a goal chance, Burton a good example. .

Neither Spain or France, masters of possession and strike football, could score against Hungary. Okay, Hungary couldn't score against them, but aggressive defending
gave them draws instead of losses. Thus with some of the teams we play, okay not all.; they'll have figured out now that if they stop us from scoring, high percentage possession means nothing at all after ninety minutes if they keep us out..

Nineties, La Ligue Italian sides did possession almost to the point of boredom and one goal means three points however it's attained. "Walking the ball in" goals is impressive, but means no more than a deflected lash from thirty yards. I hope our lads remember that occasionally.

Amen. ae:)
I think last season we were guilty of not shooting enough. You can't say that of this season. The Burton game we had a lot of shots. People can say not enough on target but you have to look at how Burton played. We scored a perfectly good goal too.

The failure for me of much of last season was we played slow, ponderous stuff and when we got round the box often failed to produce anything. This season so far, we play with tempo and intensity and put loads of crosses into the box and get loads of shots away.

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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:03 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:53 pm
I think we are more incisive and varied in approach this season. There's more willingness to be direct. Last season we were guilty far too often of possession for possession's sake and I felt the exciting football thing was exaggerated based on a handful of games. The style has evolved from what I've seen. Just need them to start knocking the bugger in the net now.
Not sure its that we go more direct we just play quicker. And we move the ball round in triangles with movement. Its quick and incisive.

We're top of the expected goals league for a reason...a stat I have little time for but it shows we aren't playing as we did last season when I'd very much concur with your assessment. I didn't see much in the way of real exciting progressive football whereas this so far has been stellar.

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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:50 pm

Not direct to Doyle but the other night Dapo was hugging the touchline and we were occasionally trying to hit him with long diagonal balls. Not often enough to be predictable, but different to the usual shorter passing.
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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:59 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:50 pm
Not direct to Doyle but the other night Dapo was hugging the touchline and we were occasionally trying to hit him with long diagonal balls. Not often enough to be predictable, but different to the usual shorter passing.
We did that last season too, the old 'switch pass' (Rioch teams loved it didn't they) and I think its just more effective this season because we move the ball quicker rather than letting a team get set then hitting it.

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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:05 pm

I miss the Phil Brown curling chip up the right flank. Need to get that into Gethin's 'content'. 😁
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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by Bruce Rioja » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:29 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:05 pm
I miss the Phil Brown curling chip up the right flank. Need to get that into Gethin's 'content'. 😁
Other than for Peter Nicholson, perhaps, I can't think of another RB of ours who I'd ever be asking players to replicate less.
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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:48 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:29 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:05 pm
I miss the Phil Brown curling chip up the right flank. Need to get that into Gethin's 'content'. 😁
Other than for Peter Nicholson, perhaps, I can't think of another RB of ours who I'd ever be asking players to replicate less.
Steve Mcanespie?

I always quite liked Browny....

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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by jmjhb » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:49 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:29 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:05 pm
I miss the Phil Brown curling chip up the right flank. Need to get that into Gethin's 'content'. 😁
Other than for Peter Nicholson, perhaps, I can't think of another RB of ours who I'd ever be asking players to replicate less.
Danny Butterfield.

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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:30 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:29 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:05 pm
I miss the Phil Brown curling chip up the right flank. Need to get that into Gethin's 'content'. 😁
Other than for Peter Nicholson, perhaps, I can't think of another RB of ours who I'd ever be asking players to replicate less.
Nicky Hunt,, :D
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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by Whitesince63 » Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:41 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:03 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:53 pm
I think we are more incisive and varied in approach this season. There's more willingness to be direct. Last season we were guilty far too often of possession for possession's sake and I felt the exciting football thing was exaggerated based on a handful of games. The style has evolved from what I've seen. Just need them to start knocking the bugger in the net now.
Not sure its that we go more direct we just play quicker. And we move the ball round in triangles with movement. Its quick and incisive.

We're top of the expected goals league for a reason...a stat I have little time for but it shows we aren't playing as we did last season when I'd very much concur with your assessment. I didn't see much in the way of real exciting progressive football whereas this so far has been stellar.

Agree with that Insane. Last year we were often desperately slow whereas this year we’re moving the ball much more quickly and it’s paying dividends, maybe not in actual goals yet but certainly in chances. We just need to start taking them now!😐

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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:00 pm

Whitesince63 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:41 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:03 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:53 pm
I think we are more incisive and varied in approach this season. There's more willingness to be direct. Last season we were guilty far too often of possession for possession's sake and I felt the exciting football thing was exaggerated based on a handful of games. The style has evolved from what I've seen. Just need them to start knocking the bugger in the net now.
Not sure its that we go more direct we just play quicker. And we move the ball round in triangles with movement. Its quick and incisive.

We're top of the expected goals league for a reason...a stat I have little time for but it shows we aren't playing as we did last season when I'd very much concur with your assessment. I didn't see much in the way of real exciting progressive football whereas this so far has been stellar.

Agree with that Insane. Last year we were often desperately slow whereas this year we’re moving the ball much more quickly and it’s paying dividends, maybe not in actual goals yet but certainly in chances. We just need to start taking them now!😐
We are also joint second highest scorers in the division.

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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by Whitesince63 » Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:26 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:00 pm
Whitesince63 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:41 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:03 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:53 pm
I think we are more incisive and varied in approach this season. There's more willingness to be direct. Last season we were guilty far too often of possession for possession's sake and I felt the exciting football thing was exaggerated based on a handful of games. The style has evolved from what I've seen. Just need them to start knocking the bugger in the net now.
Not sure its that we go more direct we just play quicker. And we move the ball round in triangles with movement. Its quick and incisive.

We're top of the expected goals league for a reason...a stat I have little time for but it shows we aren't playing as we did last season when I'd very much concur with your assessment. I didn't see much in the way of real exciting progressive football whereas this so far has been stellar.

Agree with that Insane. Last year we were often desperately slow whereas this year we’re moving the ball much more quickly and it’s paying dividends, maybe not in actual goals yet but certainly in chances. We just need to start taking them now!😐
We are also joint second highest scorers in the division.


Let’s just hope we can keep it going on Saturday then? I do think Monday was a one off, that’s the best we’ve played for years, scored and had it written off and to be fair missed several other good chances we’d have tucked away on another day. The Tractor Boys fans are confident they’ll see us off with 92% voting that but I suspect underneath they are more hopeful than expectant. Two of their new signings Morsey and Calvini are out, one injured, one suspended and so far their defence, especially the keeper, have been atrocious so surely after Monday our boys will be well fired up to make amends. I think they will so I’ll go for a 1-0 win to Wanderers. 🤗

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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:11 pm

A switch of the ips and he's gone...Meet Mr Dapo... :lol:
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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:00 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:00 pm
We are also joint second highest scorers in the division.
That’s a first-week legacy - six goals in the first two games. Three goals in the three league games since; only eight teams have scored fewer in those three, and three of those teams are the bottom three.

Fine margins. Had we scored Monday, we’d be third. We’re doing most things right. Saturday is a difficult game, though. If we’re still joint second highest scorers after that I’ll be a happy lad. If we’re still joint second highest scorers by October I’ll be doing a Snoopy happy dance.

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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:08 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:00 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:00 pm
We are also joint second highest scorers in the division.
That’s a first-week legacy - six goals in the first two games. Three goals in the three league games since; only eight teams have scored fewer in those three, and three of those teams are the bottom three.

Fine margins. Had we scored Monday, we’d be third. We’re doing most things right. Saturday is a difficult game, though. If we’re still joint second highest scorers after that I’ll be a happy lad. If we’re still joint second highest scorers by October I’ll be doing a Snoopy happy dance.
I mean we will have some ups and downs. I don’t expect much from Ipswich if I’m honest. Our record there isn’t good and seems like they are finding their feet. They’ve been here a while and I suspect Cook will have them well organised for us.

Last season we found a way without ever really scoring a lot. Indeed we scored one of the lowest totals for a promoted team. I suspect that we will score more this season but I doubt we will hit 80 or anything stupidly high. Blackpool finished third and went up via the play offs with 60 goals. I’d say we should be able to hit 60.

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Re: Will made to measure suit us? V Burton at the Unibol 8-0'clock Monday.

Post by DJBlu » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:45 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:00 pm
Whitesince63 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:41 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:03 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:53 pm
I think we are more incisive and varied in approach this season. There's more willingness to be direct. Last season we were guilty far too often of possession for possession's sake and I felt the exciting football thing was exaggerated based on a handful of games. The style has evolved from what I've seen. Just need them to start knocking the bugger in the net now.
Not sure its that we go more direct we just play quicker. And we move the ball round in triangles with movement. Its quick and incisive.

We're top of the expected goals league for a reason...a stat I have little time for but it shows we aren't playing as we did last season when I'd very much concur with your assessment. I didn't see much in the way of real exciting progressive football whereas this so far has been stellar.

Agree with that Insane. Last year we were often desperately slow whereas this year we’re moving the ball much more quickly and it’s paying dividends, maybe not in actual goals yet but certainly in chances. We just need to start taking them now!😐
We are also joint second highest scorers in the division.
Leagues highest shots too.

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