BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:42 am

They’re still pondering whether to bring back the U23s or have a B team.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... ting-lost/
Evatt now says the club is seriously considering its next step on whether to restore an Under-23s team, or whether to set-up a standalone squad who would play as a B Team.

Brentford took a similar move in 2016, controversially closing their youth academy, although there has been no indication that Wanderers are looking to follow suit.

Speaking about the potential plans, Evatt said: “I think some of the younger players have been rushed into playing too much first team football here.”

Ronan Darcy has spent time on loan with Norwegian club Sogndal and Scottish outfit Queen’s Park in the past 12 months and Evatt believes players like him would benefit from the restructure.

“I think he is a prime example of the Bolton babes, so to speak, and so is Adam Senior. At times this season Adam has had to come into the first team when we have been really low on numbers. He has done really well but isn’t ready to play week in, week our right now.

“The whole point of trying to re-vamp and bridge that gap between under-18s and first team is a really key decision for me and the board to make.

“We are looking at it under real scrutiny and trying to do the best we can, make the best decision.

“We haven’t decided which way that will be yet, under-23s or a B team, but it will be one or the other.

“It is no good us having these talented young men if we are not going to bridge the gap, they will just get lost in the system. We don’t want that to happen.”

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:44 pm

No "big guns" in the rezzies game (and no Izzy either - any update on him?) in fact we only seem to have 4 subs named too...

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by KeyserSoze » Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:59 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:44 pm
No "big guns" in the rezzies game (and no Izzy either - any update on him?) in fact we only seem to have 4 subs named too...
Twitter forgot one
Nero fiddles while Gordon Burns.

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by KeyserSoze » Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:00 pm

Lockett's first taste of action since his knee injury?
Nero fiddles while Gordon Burns.

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:28 pm

That subs bench reads like a line of Dickensian characters!
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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by Prufrock » Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:49 pm

To b or not to b, that is th qustion
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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:09 pm

No good news for he Reserves. Lost 1-0.
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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:10 am

It's a B, not a U23, team next season.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... xt-season/
“We have come down on the side of running a B team next season, so we will stick with Category Three and run a B team, which will be a separate squad and group to the first team,” Evatt told The Bolton News.

“We feel that is the best way to encourage the pathway and make sure there isn’t that gap between under-18s and first-team football.

“It gives some of our academy players a longer time to develop and learn to get themselves ready for the first team.

“That is what has been agreed and decided on, and we will be recruiting a B team manager and a whole B team squad for next season over the summer."

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:01 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:10 am
It's a B, not a U23, team next season.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... xt-season/
“We have come down on the side of running a B team next season, so we will stick with Category Three and run a B team, which will be a separate squad and group to the first team,” Evatt told The Bolton News.

“We feel that is the best way to encourage the pathway and make sure there isn’t that gap between under-18s and first-team football.

“It gives some of our academy players a longer time to develop and learn to get themselves ready for the first team.

“That is what has been agreed and decided on, and we will be recruiting a B team manager and a whole B team squad for next season over the summer."
Seems odd. A B team that needs recruiting. What? Kids? Or just some shite to fill it out? Why can’t we just have an U23 team like normal clubs?

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by Prufrock » Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:12 pm

I think it's worth a roll of the dice. It was already hard enough for us to compete with the other teams in the area, before the youth set up got gutted.

It's a point of difference at least. "Look at Brentford, look at these quotes from managers/players saying U23 football is holding people back, come play for us instead". You can see a pitch. A lot depends on who they're going to play against, but if it can be a bigger test than U23 there might be something there.
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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Apr 02, 2022 3:17 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:01 pm
Seems odd. A B team that needs recruiting. What? Kids? Or just some shite to fill it out? Why can’t we just have an U23 team like normal clubs?
Well, that decision is explained under the link.
“To run an under-23s we would have to become a Category Two (academy) and with the time that we have got right now, there is a lot that would have to happen for us to qualify for Category Two.

“What the B team does give us is more flexibility, it gives us the chance to not only play against academies and under-23s but also men’s fixtures as and when we see fit really. There is no scheduled league but there will be regular games week-on-week against different categories and calibre of opposition.

“It gives us that flexibility depending on how strong the group looks, and obviously we have got to recruit a whole new squad of players for that with one or two being promoted from the under-18s and one or two we are carrying now that we don’t feel are quite ready for the first team, Adam Senior is a prime example."

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sat Apr 02, 2022 5:56 pm

B team is by far the cheapest option and the one that shows the least evidence of real progress forward. I imagine that, had we gone up, we'd have preferred a proper U23s set up with a rejigged academy; but it's expensive.

We should be able to do some development work on the academy set up next year and have another look the summer after.

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Apr 02, 2022 6:33 pm

The bit that caught my eye was not the fact we want to do it on the cheap so are going B team rather than U23. It’s more that we apparently need to recruit a B team. Which seems odd. Surely it’s made up of existing promising youngsters and those on the fringes of the first team? Whereas we appear to be basing it more on the Spanish style of an actual B team separated from the first team. Which just seems odd and counter productive to me. Unless we are signing a load of kids for it to hope some make it to first team.

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:20 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 6:33 pm
The bit that caught my eye was not the fact we want to do it on the cheap so are going B team rather than U23. It’s more that we apparently need to recruit a B team. Which seems odd. Surely it’s made up of existing promising youngsters and those on the fringes of the first team? Whereas we appear to be basing it more on the Spanish style of an actual B team separated from the first team. Which just seems odd and counter productive to me. Unless we are signing a load of kids for it to hope some make it to first team.
The quotes do make it sound like we'll be dragging lads off the Red Lion car park but I think that's misleading. As is the word "separate" – they won't be split by barbed wire. Entirely possible that the best players will be called up to the first team, with the opposite journey taken by players on the fringe or returning from injury.

Whichever way we went we'd have to sign a few. At the moment we could barely raise a five-a-side U23 team. There are seven "underage" players on professional contracts; two of them are goalkeepers; two (Thomason and Darcy) are effectively first-teamers, if fringe; one (FIn Lockett) has only just come back from a long-term injury. Oh and all bar Tomo and Darcy are out of contract in summer.

They are, in ascending age order:
Fin Lockett (20/4/03)
Jay Fitzmartin (14/9/02) - youth loan to tier-7 Stalybridge Celtic
Luke Hutchinson (1/9/02)
Matthew Alexander (7/5/02) - youth loan to tier-7 Lancaster City for the season
Adam Senior (20/1/02)
George Thomason (12/1/01)
Ronan Darcy (4/11/00)

That's just the lads on pro contracts, but it's not like we're stuffed with promising 19-, 20- and 21-year-olds (or they'd be on pro contracts). Understandably given the evisceration of the Anderson era, the cupboard's almost bare. There is, as I've said a few times, a massive hole in our youth development plan.

However. Loads of academies thin out decent players each summer: look at Afolayan or Fossey. If we want the next of that type, it'd be good to have a proper B team to effectively have several on long-term trial. Now, not all of them will make it, but I like the idea of mixing up opponents between U23 and men's teams: there's only so much you can learn from facing Academy lads on pristine behind-closed-doors pitches.

If you ask Evatt if he wants a U23 team stuffed to the gills with the best of our academy and attracting players from elsewhere, I'm sure he'd love it. But we are where we are, we're rebuilding sensibly, and right now I'd say we can't afford to move up. The Elite Player Performance Programme decides academy categories based on expenditure: clubs have to commit to certain levels of spending, certain standards of provision and certain numbers of coaches (possibly hard to recruit en masse at this time of year). Figures change but while Category Three costs something like half a million a year, moving up to Category Two can cost £1.8m. That's why Ken fecked it off in the first place.

There'll come a time, hopefully, when we gear up. Might even be next summer. But to me this seems a sensible halfway house, and much better than our current system of sending the few Academy lads we have left to Chorley or Stalybridge. I'm hoping we can pick up some promising players – and that some of them don't stay in the Bs for long.

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:58 pm

Sounds like the lads who age out of the U18s, plus some who have fallen out of other academies, plus a couple from non-league and then first teamers who need minutes.

It's unlikely to see us produce miracles, but we have to have something and it's something. You'd think we'll see a few Faals and not (m)any Dapos.

I anticipate a lot of "*Player x* had to start for us, he's clearly world class compared to the players in the A team!" next season.

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:24 pm

I think my concern is that there are two basic models. An academy that brings through young players on a sort of ‘one gem amongst many turds makes it worth it’. Or some sort of young development side where you have picked some younger players with potential and try to bring them on.

The former is in favour the latter takes a long time and needs considerable knowledge and scouting and of course the local knowledge to know where these lads are coming from.

Recruiting a B team in a summer doesn’t necessarily seem to be sustainable or even sensible. A B team via some youth players and recruiting and improving on the team thus relegating some down the line sure. But adding people to the payroll to fill out a B teams? Not for me. Very promising young players identified over time sure. But this would take more than a summer.

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:20 am

What does our current B team squad look like, do we thinking? How many players do people think we will add to that set up?

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:07 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:20 am
What does our current B team squad look like, do we thinking? How many players do people think we will add to that set up?
Good question. At a push, right now (were it to suddenly exist for the rest of the season and all loans out were cancelled), I'd define it as something like:

Matty Alexander, Luke Hutchinson, Adam Senior, Reiss Greenidge, Liam Edwards, Liam Gordon, Jay Fitzmartin, Fin Lockett.

Maybe Darcy and Thomason too (who, unlike every previous name, are actually contracted next season).

Probably throw in the lads who filled the subs' bench in winter - Mitch Henry, Arran Pettifer, Max Conway, Matt Tweedley - but AFAIK they aren't on pro contracts.

Lots to do. There's a huge gap where our academy used to be pre-Ken.

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:30 pm

A vast chasm, yes.

Made worse by the fact a few of those you listed won't be here next season.

Evatt has made a big deal out of the fact the first team won't need as much work this summer as in previous windows; but we might still have our busiest window yet under him if we are to fill out two squads.

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Re: BWFC Reserves 2021/2022 - Central League

Post by Prufrock » Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:32 pm

One of the advantages of a B team I suspect is ad hoc friendlies. Won't need to pack out a team with U18s to fulfill fixtures. I'm sure we'll sign some, but possibly look at a lot of trialists (and where we have good fitness keep the likes of Thomason/Isgrove in good nick.
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