You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:08 pm

For me the biggest holes in the squad other than areas we have no direct back up in are attacking midfield and wide right.

Sarce is the only player of his type we have and when he went off for Kachunga we looked worse. Wide right would mean Baka can play centrally as a different option and also Issy when he struggles like second half can get a rest and we’d have a different player to test teams with.

Another striker is of course nice but when you need a goal would you want to take Doyle off or add to the arsenal elsewhere?

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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:12 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:01 pm
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:57 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:23 pm
Maybe whilst Evatt's up there, he could have a peek at the defence too. We're still the second highest scorers in the division at this point and maybe more goals would be good, but when you're leaking 2 per game, you're going to struggle more often than not to bag three points.
Worthy I agree 100%, defensively from set pieces / crosses we are absolutely shocking and consistently concede some simply awful goals. As I've said IMO we are million miles away from having a promotion chasing League 1 side, and we never will until FV decide to invest in the playing side, we will never go up with free's & out of contract players - however it will be more than enough to keep us comfortably in League 1.

As in any walk of life you get what you pay for, so for us to challenge at the top end of League 1 this season or next FV will eventually have to dip into their pockets (or the pockets of the main backers)
Dipping into pockets is how we, Derby Wigan etc etc ended up in the situations we were in. I don’t think we need to overspend to compete. From what I’ve seen if we get a bit of luck we are a top 8 side and from there who knows?

But FV won’t be spending for success it will happen over time as we build. And we might need to sell players at the right time to fund new ones. That’s how it goes.
Who the fcuk are you Sharon's 'know it all' long lost child ?, you have absolutely no idea like the rest of us of FV's plans.

BTW I'm not saying we should spend now, but we won't get promoted from League 1 with just free's & out of contract players no matter how good Evatt is, we will need to spend eventually to get out of League 1, and I'm also not saying we overspend, but both Sunderland & Wigan must have a wage budget 2 or 3 times of ours

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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:56 pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:12 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:01 pm
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:57 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:23 pm
Maybe whilst Evatt's up there, he could have a peek at the defence too. We're still the second highest scorers in the division at this point and maybe more goals would be good, but when you're leaking 2 per game, you're going to struggle more often than not to bag three points.
Worthy I agree 100%, defensively from set pieces / crosses we are absolutely shocking and consistently concede some simply awful goals. As I've said IMO we are million miles away from having a promotion chasing League 1 side, and we never will until FV decide to invest in the playing side, we will never go up with free's & out of contract players - however it will be more than enough to keep us comfortably in League 1.

As in any walk of life you get what you pay for, so for us to challenge at the top end of League 1 this season or next FV will eventually have to dip into their pockets (or the pockets of the main backers)
Dipping into pockets is how we, Derby Wigan etc etc ended up in the situations we were in. I don’t think we need to overspend to compete. From what I’ve seen if we get a bit of luck we are a top 8 side and from there who knows?

But FV won’t be spending for success it will happen over time as we build. And we might need to sell players at the right time to fund new ones. That’s how it goes.
Who the fcuk are you Sharon's 'know it all' long lost child ?, you have absolutely no idea like the rest of us of FV's plans.

BTW I'm not saying we should spend now, but we won't get promoted from League 1 with just free's & out of contract players no matter how good Evatt is, we will need to spend eventually to get out of League 1, and I'm also not saying we overspend, but both Sunderland & Wigan must have a wage budget 2 or 3 times of ours
You only need to listen to IE and Sharon to hear we are trying to be sustainable - so unless we turn a profit there isn’t going to be unspent money. I don’t think we need to spend loads to get out of this league but regardless I’m pretty sure we won’t be spending significant fees unless we trade players.

The advantage we have is Markham and a managed recruitment process. That’s more important than just spending money.

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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:25 pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:57 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:23 pm
Maybe whilst Evatt's up there, he could have a peek at the defence too. We're still the second highest scorers in the division at this point and maybe more goals would be good, but when you're leaking 2 per game, you're going to struggle more often than not to bag three points.
Worthy I agree 100%, defensively from set pieces / crosses we are absolutely shocking and consistently concede some simply awful goals. As I've said IMO we are million miles away from having a promotion chasing League 1 side, and we never will until FV decide to invest in the playing side, we will never go up with free's & out of contract players - however it will be more than enough to keep us comfortably in League 1.

As in any walk of life you get what you pay for, so for us to challenge at the top end of League 1 this season or next FV will eventually have to dip into their pockets (or the pockets of the main backers)
It's a tricky one to guess at. I remember last season, IE seemed to suggest that FV would only invest in Jan if we looked half likely. We didn't, they did. Guess we'll have to wait and see...

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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by DJBlu » Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:25 pm

Say what you want about Doyle. We lost because we didn't defend well.

We didn't turn shit over the space of a week. Massive build up and a let down. Been there before.

Sunderland next week. Let's go again.

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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by truewhite15 » Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:30 pm

DJBlu wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:25 pm
Say what you want about Doyle. We lost because we didn't defend well.

We didn't turn shit over the space of a week. Massive build up and a let down. Been there before.

Sunderland next week. Let's go again.
Yep, this. The two goals were defended poorly, particularly the second. Other than that, we didn't do an awful lot wrong over the park, except not making the most of the opportunities we had. Rotherham are a good side for this level and we, aside from a mad couple of minutes defensively, matched them. There's no need for knee-jerking here.

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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by LeverEnd » Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:57 pm

truewhite15 wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:30 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:25 pm
Say what you want about Doyle. We lost because we didn't defend well.

We didn't turn shit over the space of a week. Massive build up and a let down. Been there before.

Sunderland next week. Let's go again.
Yep, this. The two goals were defended poorly, particularly the second. Other than that, we didn't do an awful lot wrong over the park, except not making the most of the opportunities we had. Rotherham are a good side for this level and we, aside from a mad couple of minutes defensively, matched them. There's no need for knee-jerking here.
I said when it happened that the game was over when we gave them 2 goals. Our attack isn't brilliant but would've had more chance if the opposition wasn't just sitting pretty and didn't have to make any effort to attack. Against a poor team it'd be difficult. Against a confident, well-drilled Rotherham it was finished after half an hour.
I like to think we won't do that again.
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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:34 am

There is a naivety about Evatt saying they caught us out by putting 7 in the box and we only practised for ‘5 or 6’ which is why their player was unmarked for the second. I mean come on. This is professional football. Whatever you want to say about possession and how we play that sort of thing simply is going to lose us games. Have to be less naive because teams will look at that and exploit it.

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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:51 am

It still annoys the hell out of me that we dont leave anyone up on opposition corners.
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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:13 am

Going back to the subject of Dapo and that they either had three players on him and/or were literally kicking him out of the game, I have some questions;

1/ Why did we continue to us him as our only means of attack?
2/ Why didn't we utilise the space left by the players who were on him?
3/ Our old illusive friend 'Evatt's Plan B', where was it?
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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:18 am

In short, although we can't expect to win every game, it happens in every league, even the highest :bad defending and lack of taking chances can't be denied. Every game's a cup final. Accept it and move on.
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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:32 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:18 am
In short, although we can't expect to win every game, it happens in every league, even the highest :bad defending and lack of taking chances can't be denied. Every game's a cup final. Accept it and move on.
So when you lose, you just accept and move on? You don't try an analyse where you did well and not so well? You don't try and improve? You just say "ahh well, it's only a game." Wrong answer for me. You look to improve. As Brucie said if Dapo is occupying 2 or 3 of them, you try to work out where the gaps are and how you exploit them.

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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by sonicthewhite » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:58 am

Been away for a couple of days. So is it a case of we were bad, they were good or a bit of both?
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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:03 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:13 am
Going back to the subject of Dapo and that they either had three players on him and/or were literally kicking him out of the game, I have some questions;

1/ Why did we continue to us him as our only means of attack?
2/ Why didn't we utilise the space left by the players who were on him?
3/ Our old illusive friend 'Evatt's Plan B', where was it?
All very fair questions. Last one perhaps a bit harsh as we did have a plan for their press first half and it worked on a few occasions. But other two very pertinent. We weren’t able to exploit space and that is a problem. I still think when a team sticks 11 behind the ball it’s not easy for any side. And if we don’t have much chance from set pieces that makes it harder. Comes down to the fact for me that if we are playing in the manner we are it comes down to the final ball in these games and that generally hasn’t been good enough.

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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:14 pm

sonicthewhite wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:58 am
Been away for a couple of days. So is it a case of we were bad, they were good or a bit of both?
We weren’t bad. But Rotherham had a plan press us high and wait for set pieces. And having looked at it again the first goal is one of those things. A great strike. Not sure you can say we got too much wrong after the throw in where perhaps they initially caught us out.

But 1-0 isn’t game over. The second goal we conceded looks worse and worse the more I watch it. If you concede to an unmarked player from an out swinging corner it’s on you. And in reality after two nil we huffed and puffed but only created one clear chance that Doyle put against the upright. Beyond that I think Rotherham knew their 2 goals was a lead we’d not rescue.

Football is at this level about fine margins and details and yesterday without playing badly we got the fine margins and details wrong. That needs looking at but we also played a team who are just better than we are. It happens.

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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:25 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:34 am
There is a naivety about Evatt saying they caught us out by putting 7 in the box and we only practised for ‘5 or 6’ which is why their player was unmarked for the second.
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:51 am
It still annoys the hell out of me that we dont leave anyone up on opposition corners.
These two posts being next to each other makes me wonder where half of our players were when defending corners. :mrgreen:

Mind you, it happens. Palace went to Anfield yesterday and in open play they successfully thwarted Liverpool (who were, admittedly, without both their brilliant attacking full-backs). But then on one set piece they gave the freedom of the area to Sadio Mane, who'd scored against them in their previous nine meetings - and then they ignored Mo Salah, a similarly unwise oversight.

For me there's absolutely no question our defence needs to improve at set pieces, but so does our attack – which, from set pieces, includes a couple of defenders, notably Big Reeks. BWFCi counts dozens of corners we've had without looking threatening, and I have no reason to disbelieve him.

There's also a statistical anomaly afoot. We are the division's third-highest scorers, which is nice, but of those 14 goals, 11 came in three games; the other three were spread over the other five games – seven games, including the two League Cup fixtures. In chrono order:

GOAL GOAL GOAL
.
GOAL GOAL GOAL
GOAL
GOAL GOAL
.
.
GOAL GOAL GOAL * vs Port Vale semi-reserves
.
GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL
.

It's feast or famine. And as I say, the famines are coming not because we're clueless or timid - we're having plenty ball, plenty of efforts on goal, but few on target considering the football we're playing. It's neither sacrilege nor ridiculous to say that we need to sharpen up - and as I say, while the gorgeous football is utterly welcome, I'd be very happy to go 1-0 up off a centre-back's head now and again – or the increasing occurence of teams holding us at arm's length could turn a concern into a worry.
Last edited by Dave Sutton's barnet on Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by LeverEnd » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:40 pm

I think it's down to us being a mid table team playing at or near our best. If the opposition is too good at what they do, we lose. If they have an off day like Ipswich, we fill our boots. Sounds simplistic but I think until we strengthen again we're relying on the opposition because we have no more gears.
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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:42 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:40 pm
I think it's down to us being a mid table team playing at or near our best. If the opposition is too good at what they do, we lose. If they have an off day like Ipswich, we fill our boots. Sounds simplistic but I think until we strengthen again we're relying on the opposition because we have no more gears.
This seems entirely correct.

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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:44 pm

For cheap comparison, Wigan have scored in every non-Sherpa game bar one... the 0-0 with us. They've not scored many, but they've spaced them out well. And they're top. But not, I don't think, for long: their low xG suggests they'll slip via reversion to the mean. I hope we can finish above them, and I think we can, but it will take a tweak or two.

GOAL
GOAL
GOAL
GOAL
GOAL GOAL
.
GOAL
. (Sherpa)
GOAL GOAL
GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL

Sunderland, who are second, have also scored in all but one game - and interestingly, have only kept one clean sheet. Indeed, conceding two yesterday at struggling Fleetwood meant they only got a point. Takes good attack and defence. #finemargins

GOAL GOAL
GOAL GOAL
GOAL GOAL
.
GOAL
GOAL GOAL GOAL
GOAL GOAL GOAL
GOAL GOAL
GOAL GOAL

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Re: You're not from New York City - Bolton v Rotherham (H) - 18-Sep-21

Post by jmjhb » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:56 pm

As said above we are probably an upper mid-table team. Honestly, I'd rather we improve incrementally every transfer window rather than having to go through a huge overhaul of the squad every season.

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