Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

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Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by TonyDomingos » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:15 am

The Trotters are in south east London. Not Del Boy & Rodney in Peckham, but Evatt and our heroes at The Valley. It's my first game in over 18 months - will I see that elusive goal?
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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:03 am

Parallel world, Adkins could have been our manager – he was one of the two favourites (with Cotterill) before Ken pulled Parky out the bag. Wonder how that would have gone?

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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:28 am

First game I'll have missed this season this :(
Bloody fixture schedulers picking this and Plymouth for midweek :whack:

Isgrove, who's been excellent so far, is a big loss. Kachunga to start presumably although i wonder if Delf might offer more defensive solidity. John instead of Gordon too.

Can we get it on iFollow?

2-1 win
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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:40 am

Talk about fine margins - Charlton are W1 D3 L5 in the league, but four of the five defeats have been 1-2 (the other was 0-2 at home to Wigan, who opened the scoring in the 88th minute).

Perhaps notably, in three of those four 2-1 losses, Charlton went 2-0 down before giving the commentators the opportunity to say "halving the deficit". That could be their ferocious, if unsuccessful, determination to get back in the game, or it could be oppos easing up.

They would have had another 2-1 loss on Saturday, too, but for a late equaliser by Josh Davison, who has spent most of his career in non-league.

Either way, in 7 out of 9 league games both sides have scored; only yon WIgan game plus a 2-0 home win over Crewe were the exceptions.

So even if they score first, which is a possibility with our less than shipshape defence, we might add to the four occasions (five if you include the Sherpa Reserves, which frankly I don't) we've pegged teams back this season.

Three of those were more than a month ago, though. It would significantly help our misfiring attack if we weren't chasing the game, especially now the gaffer has made repeatedly plain how much he loves it when teams come at us rather than sit in. Sunderland and Ipswich were never going to sit back, but Rotherham were savvier and Charlton, for all the pre-season excitement, might be content to win 1-0 once they nose in front.

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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by TonyDomingos » Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:27 pm

Pay on the day confirmed for this.
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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:01 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:40 am
Talk about fine margins - Charlton are W1 D3 L5 in the league, but four of the five defeats have been 1-2 (the other was 0-2 at home to Wigan, who opened the scoring in the 88th minute).

Perhaps notably, in three of those four 2-1 losses, Charlton went 2-0 down before giving the commentators the opportunity to say "halving the deficit". That could be their ferocious, if unsuccessful, determination to get back in the game, or it could be oppos easing up.

They would have had another 2-1 loss on Saturday, too, but for a late equaliser by Josh Davison, who has spent most of his career in non-league.

Either way, in 7 out of 9 league games both sides have scored; only yon WIgan game plus a 2-0 home win over Crewe were the exceptions.

So even if they score first, which is a possibility with our less than shipshape defence, we might add to the four occasions (five if you include the Sherpa Reserves, which frankly I don't) we've pegged teams back this season.

Three of those were more than a month ago, though. It would significantly help our misfiring attack if we weren't chasing the game, especially now the gaffer has made repeatedly plain how much he loves it when teams come at us rather than sit in. Sunderland and Ipswich were never going to sit back, but Rotherham were savvier and Charlton, for all the pre-season excitement, might be content to win 1-0 once they nose in front.
Teams look at us and know how we play with possession and also that we're a greater threat on the counter than if they are sat in against us. So first goal is becoming critical in these games. I remember Megson saying it and he's right look at how many underdogs win games by scoring first and hanging on. Happens more than you'd expect. Because once a team has something to hang on for it gets harder no matter how good you are.

Scoring first negates the ability for a side to sit in against us which for me makes it increasingly important.

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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:14 pm

Aye. We scored first 39 of the 43 league wins under Parky – and two of the four exceptions were in his first four wins. He soon stamped that out...

I like Evatt a lot but I do think he's made an error by loudly and repeatedly telling opponents we find it harder when they sit back.

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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by nicholaldo » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:20 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:28 am
First game I'll have missed this season this :(
Bloody fixture schedulers picking this and Plymouth for midweek :whack:

Isgrove, who's been excellent so far, is a big loss. Kachunga to start presumably although i wonder if Delf might offer more defensive solidity. John instead of Gordon too.

Can we get it on iFollow?

2-1 win

Evatt seems to have confirmed in the pre-match press conference that Kachunga will start in Isgrove's place.

And yes, it's on iFollow (with the usual caveats).

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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:25 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:14 pm
Aye. We scored first 39 of the 43 league wins under Parky – and two of the four exceptions were in his first four wins. He soon stamped that out...

I like Evatt a lot but I do think he's made an error by loudly and repeatedly telling opponents we find it harder when they sit back.
Yeah I agree. Don't advertise your weakness to the world. Because even Sunderland to an extent were happy to sit back at 1-0. Good sides know even if we score they can have another spell later in the game.

At Ipswich we had 44% possession and scored 5. I'm willing to bet our results will correlate well to lower possession because thats indicative of teams coming at us and rotation. I don't care how good you are when a team concedes 70% of the possession its a slog to break them down. We've seen Man City struggle recently to do that. And they are the best of this type in the country right now. So we need to stop conceding the first goal and try and start games fast. Also probably need to think about what happens once a team does sit in because we're reliant on our full backs a lot and the end product/final ball isn't really there. For all the criticisms of finishing and scoring for the amount of possession we've had we haven't created a whole lot - and that is ultimately the biggest problem. Yes we've had chances. But take Rotherham - loads of the ball, Doyle had one chance and in fairness should have scored but hit the post instead. Outside of that I struggle to recall clear cut chances with all that possession. Yes Rotherham are a good side but I come back to...pressure on finishing only mounts when you don't create that many clear chances and also are likely to concede a few.

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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by Prufrock » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:35 pm

I agree I wouldn't have said it, but I'm not sure he considers it "advertising our weaknesses". I.e. I think it's a miscalculation rather than naivety. I think he'd be happy for every team to come and sit and give us all the ball and then it become a repeatable routine of games following the same pattern where we try to break teams down.

Could be naivety, mind.

On the chances, tbf my suspicion is that Rotherham and Sunderland are the best two teams in the division. Rotherham we don't seem to have created much, but Sunderland we created plenty.

We're at the point we're I think we're going to find out whether we've just had a few unlucky games conceding first and then missing chances (in which case things should turn and we'll start picking up the wins performances deserve) or whether these are more fundamental issues at both ends meaning it's probably a case of taking a few transfer windows to improve on personnel.

I thought we were an attacker light, and injuries are really hurting us.

Silver lining is Kachunga will get the minutes now (and I agree with whoever said he looked fitter when he came on on sat). And then hopefully Baka and Amaechi can come back in sooner rather than later. The latter is going to be miles off initially you'd think, though.
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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by boltonboris » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:43 pm

Sorry for the negativity, but I think this will be more of the same - Concede first half, then spend the next hour or so missing chances and losing 1, or 2-0
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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by LeverEnd » Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:27 pm

They don't sound particularly good so this another one where we could nick a win. Conceding first again would make that very unlikely though, as has been said.
I see Kachunga for isgrove as a significant weakening. Yes he needs minutes, but I'd rather see him get them in the reserves until he looks like he knows what he's doing. I wonder when was the last time he started a game and played well? Maybe he's due one 😁
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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:33 pm

Per xG stats, we created more or rather better chances v Rotherham than v Sunderland, but only very fractionally. Even so, it was our third-lowest xG of the season (league only).
.
stats 2.jpeg
stats 2.jpeg (65.78 KiB) Viewed 1701 times
.
Perhaps more worryingly, only in one match (at Proper Wimbledon) have we given away a higher xG. That's been kept under 1 in the last few games, which implies that statistically we've been slightly unlucky to concede at the rate we have been doing. Even at Sunderland we probably deserved a draw, going by the Experimental 361 definition that anything within a third of a goal difference is honours even.

By that rationale, we dropped two points vs MK and Burton, one at Cambridge, three against Rotherham and one at Sunderland (total 9pts dropped), while sneaking three in the Lincoln smash-and-grab and two against Oxford (total 5pts). In other words, due to a combination of blunt attack and blundering defence, we're tracking 6pts behind where we should be – which would hoist us to 2nd place, considering we'd also be taking points back off Sunderland and McDons (real-world 2nd and 3rd).

TL;DR: underlying stats suggest we should be better, which is annoying but preferable to saying we're lucky and doomed to fall.

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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:04 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:33 pm
Per xG stats, we created more or rather better chances v Rotherham than v Sunderland, but only very fractionally. Even so, it was our third-lowest xG of the season (league only).
.
stats 2.jpeg
.
Perhaps more worryingly, only in one match (at Proper Wimbledon) have we given away a higher xG. That's been kept under 1 in the last few games, which implies that statistically we've been slightly unlucky to concede at the rate we have been doing. Even at Sunderland we probably deserved a draw, going by the Experimental 361 definition that anything within a third of a goal difference is honours even.

By that rationale, we dropped two points vs MK and Burton, one at Cambridge, three against Rotherham and one at Sunderland (total 9pts dropped), while sneaking three in the Lincoln smash-and-grab and two against Oxford (total 5pts). In other words, due to a combination of blunt attack and blundering defence, we're tracking 6pts behind where we should be – which would hoist us to 2nd place, considering we'd also be taking points back off Sunderland and McDons (real-world 2nd and 3rd).

TL;DR: underlying stats suggest we should be better, which is annoying but preferable to saying we're lucky and doomed to fall.
I'm not sure those stats really reflect full reality.

Rotherham I'd not say we created much clear cut. And for all our possession that's an issue. One clear and obvious problem is without Baka we don't have a target in the box for crosses. And for all the good play it often ends up with a full back or a winger trying to beat their man and put in the perfect low cross or pull back into a crowded box. That means you need to get a lot right. Rather than say, a full back hooping a cross in, Baka pressing a defender and something breaking for Doyle or Dapo or Sarce.

I'd not say movement up front or sniffing out chances is our issue (not whilst Doyle is there) its more the final ball. And partly that's down to ability and partly that is down to just the limitations of no physical presence in the front three.

When teams pack their areas its not easy to break them down with the clever football that Issy, Doyle and Sheehan etc rely on - where they can open pockets of space up.

I'd also say that the fullbacks at home especially get a lot of possession and I assume will anywhere a team decides to surrender the ball. Jones early doors was a driving force but I wonder against a more camped in side whether his running down the line ability is more negated and it comes down to quality of delivery which is undoubtedly his weakness going forwards. Similarly you can look at Sarce and when he does well is generally on the counter and for me Sheehan is the same - exploits gaps and plays the ball in behind teams but doesn't seem all that comfortable in the attacking third without space. He certainly was frustrated against Rotherham and on Saturday. Once teams sit a bit deeper I feel those two especially become less effective. Along with Jones. And that's three big players for our attacking play. Dapo is effective because he wins free kicks and also drags men over but again we have to maximise our output from set pieces to really capitalise on that. He won't often get the space he did against Ipswich.

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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:29 pm

We sort of need to win this one to get some momentum back. A loss is a loss too many when it becomes regular, and that can happen very easily. The why's and wherefore's are much less important than the result. We need the points and "nearly" won't do. In the words of the Maori farewell, "Now is the hour"..COME ON YOU WHITES.. :oyea: :oyea:


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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by Prufrock » Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:59 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:04 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:33 pm
Per xG stats, we created more or rather better chances v Rotherham than v Sunderland, but only very fractionally. Even so, it was our third-lowest xG of the season (league only).
.
stats 2.jpeg
.
Perhaps more worryingly, only in one match (at Proper Wimbledon) have we given away a higher xG. That's been kept under 1 in the last few games, which implies that statistically we've been slightly unlucky to concede at the rate we have been doing. Even at Sunderland we probably deserved a draw, going by the Experimental 361 definition that anything within a third of a goal difference is honours even.

By that rationale, we dropped two points vs MK and Burton, one at Cambridge, three against Rotherham and one at Sunderland (total 9pts dropped), while sneaking three in the Lincoln smash-and-grab and two against Oxford (total 5pts). In other words, due to a combination of blunt attack and blundering defence, we're tracking 6pts behind where we should be – which would hoist us to 2nd place, considering we'd also be taking points back off Sunderland and McDons (real-world 2nd and 3rd).

TL;DR: underlying stats suggest we should be better, which is annoying but preferable to saying we're lucky and doomed to fall.
I'm not sure those stats really reflect full reality.

Rotherham I'd not say we created much clear cut. And for all our possession that's an issue. One clear and obvious problem is without Baka we don't have a target in the box for crosses. And for all the good play it often ends up with a full back or a winger trying to beat their man and put in the perfect low cross or pull back into a crowded box. That means you need to get a lot right. Rather than say, a full back hooping a cross in, Baka pressing a defender and something breaking for Doyle or Dapo or Sarce.

I'd not say movement up front or sniffing out chances is our issue (not whilst Doyle is there) its more the final ball. And partly that's down to ability and partly that is down to just the limitations of no physical presence in the front three.

When teams pack their areas its not easy to break them down with the clever football that Issy, Doyle and Sheehan etc rely on - where they can open pockets of space up.

I'd also say that the fullbacks at home especially get a lot of possession and I assume will anywhere a team decides to surrender the ball. Jones early doors was a driving force but I wonder against a more camped in side whether his running down the line ability is more negated and it comes down to quality of delivery which is undoubtedly his weakness going forwards. Similarly you can look at Sarce and when he does well is generally on the counter and for me Sheehan is the same - exploits gaps and plays the ball in behind teams but doesn't seem all that comfortable in the attacking third without space. He certainly was frustrated against Rotherham and on Saturday. Once teams sit a bit deeper I feel those two especially become less effective. Along with Jones. And that's three big players for our attacking play. Dapo is effective because he wins free kicks and also drags men over but again we have to maximise our output from set pieces to really capitalise on that. He won't often get the space he did against Ipswich.
To get on my favourite hobby horse xG is not a "stat" in any meaningful sense.

And while I appreciate as always DSB's thorough analysis, I don't think xG can bear that kind of weight on a granular analysis. I think it's a useful benchmark for analysing long term trends. I don't think anyone would disagree with the conclusion we've given away cheap goals, missed good chances and that has cost us points. I think it's also a good indicator that on "overall play" we're right at the top end. But I don't think it can support game by game analysis.

On the fullbacks point I think we're missing John's quality of delivery and a different option. But mainly I just think we're missing chances.

That's either because the quality we have in the final third doesn't match the rest of our play, or we're being unlucky and likely will revert to the mean. Fingers crossed for the later but even if it's the former, I think it's a question of steady patience, getting injuries back, and recruiting well in Jan.
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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:21 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:04 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:33 pm
Per xG stats, we created more or rather better chances v Rotherham than v Sunderland, but only very fractionally. Even so, it was our third-lowest xG of the season (league only).
.
stats 2.jpeg
.
Perhaps more worryingly, only in one match (at Proper Wimbledon) have we given away a higher xG. That's been kept under 1 in the last few games, which implies that statistically we've been slightly unlucky to concede at the rate we have been doing. Even at Sunderland we probably deserved a draw, going by the Experimental 361 definition that anything within a third of a goal difference is honours even.

By that rationale, we dropped two points vs MK and Burton, one at Cambridge, three against Rotherham and one at Sunderland (total 9pts dropped), while sneaking three in the Lincoln smash-and-grab and two against Oxford (total 5pts). In other words, due to a combination of blunt attack and blundering defence, we're tracking 6pts behind where we should be – which would hoist us to 2nd place, considering we'd also be taking points back off Sunderland and McDons (real-world 2nd and 3rd).

TL;DR: underlying stats suggest we should be better, which is annoying but preferable to saying we're lucky and doomed to fall.
Rotherham I'd not say we created much clear cut. And for all our possession that's an issue. One clear and obvious problem is without Baka we don't have a target in the box for crosses. And for all the good play it often ends up with a full back or a winger trying to beat their man and put in the perfect low cross or pull back into a crowded box. That means you need to get a lot right. Rather than say, a full back hooping a cross in, Baka pressing a defender and something breaking for Doyle or Dapo or Sarce.
I'm not sure those stats really reflect full reality of whether we created better chances (for us and the team we had out, on the day we had it out) v Rotherham. And this is the problem I have with xG, you can argue coulda, woulda, shoulda all day long. It doesn't matter whether the one we hit the post with was a better chance than their outside the box shot. Their outside the box shot, went in, our inside the box shot didn't. And if the one of ours that missed, they say we should score 9 times out of 10, we actually convert 3 out of 10, then it's not helping much. :-)

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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:03 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:59 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:04 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:33 pm
Per xG stats, we created more or rather better chances v Rotherham than v Sunderland, but only very fractionally. Even so, it was our third-lowest xG of the season (league only).
.
stats 2.jpeg
.
Perhaps more worryingly, only in one match (at Proper Wimbledon) have we given away a higher xG. That's been kept under 1 in the last few games, which implies that statistically we've been slightly unlucky to concede at the rate we have been doing. Even at Sunderland we probably deserved a draw, going by the Experimental 361 definition that anything within a third of a goal difference is honours even.

By that rationale, we dropped two points vs MK and Burton, one at Cambridge, three against Rotherham and one at Sunderland (total 9pts dropped), while sneaking three in the Lincoln smash-and-grab and two against Oxford (total 5pts). In other words, due to a combination of blunt attack and blundering defence, we're tracking 6pts behind where we should be – which would hoist us to 2nd place, considering we'd also be taking points back off Sunderland and McDons (real-world 2nd and 3rd).

TL;DR: underlying stats suggest we should be better, which is annoying but preferable to saying we're lucky and doomed to fall.
I'm not sure those stats really reflect full reality.

Rotherham I'd not say we created much clear cut. And for all our possession that's an issue. One clear and obvious problem is without Baka we don't have a target in the box for crosses. And for all the good play it often ends up with a full back or a winger trying to beat their man and put in the perfect low cross or pull back into a crowded box. That means you need to get a lot right. Rather than say, a full back hooping a cross in, Baka pressing a defender and something breaking for Doyle or Dapo or Sarce.

I'd not say movement up front or sniffing out chances is our issue (not whilst Doyle is there) its more the final ball. And partly that's down to ability and partly that is down to just the limitations of no physical presence in the front three.

When teams pack their areas its not easy to break them down with the clever football that Issy, Doyle and Sheehan etc rely on - where they can open pockets of space up.

I'd also say that the fullbacks at home especially get a lot of possession and I assume will anywhere a team decides to surrender the ball. Jones early doors was a driving force but I wonder against a more camped in side whether his running down the line ability is more negated and it comes down to quality of delivery which is undoubtedly his weakness going forwards. Similarly you can look at Sarce and when he does well is generally on the counter and for me Sheehan is the same - exploits gaps and plays the ball in behind teams but doesn't seem all that comfortable in the attacking third without space. He certainly was frustrated against Rotherham and on Saturday. Once teams sit a bit deeper I feel those two especially become less effective. Along with Jones. And that's three big players for our attacking play. Dapo is effective because he wins free kicks and also drags men over but again we have to maximise our output from set pieces to really capitalise on that. He won't often get the space he did against Ipswich.
To get on my favourite hobby horse xG is not a "stat" in any meaningful sense.

And while I appreciate as always DSB's thorough analysis, I don't think xG can bear that kind of weight on a granular analysis. I think it's a useful benchmark for analysing long term trends. I don't think anyone would disagree with the conclusion we've given away cheap goals, missed good chances and that has cost us points. I think it's also a good indicator that on "overall play" we're right at the top end. But I don't think it can support game by game analysis.

On the fullbacks point I think we're missing John's quality of delivery and a different option. But mainly I just think we're missing chances.

That's either because the quality we have in the final third doesn't match the rest of our play, or we're being unlucky and likely will revert to the mean. Fingers crossed for the later but even if it's the former, I think it's a question of steady patience, getting injuries back, and recruiting well in Jan.
I agree more or less though I don’t think we are missing that many. We are having a lot of the ball but not creating enough that is clear cut. Doyle going through a tough spell as strikers do but I suspect he will come out the other side of that. But still like you say John helps abs we just have to get as many points till January then reassess. I’m not worried in the slightest. We are doing the right things you just have to accept that you will have runs like this.

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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:27 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:21 pm
And if the one of ours that missed, they say we should score 9 times out of 10, we actually convert 3 out of 10, then it's not helping much. :-)
For winning points, no. For analysing attacking effectiveness, yes.

I'm not xG's greatest fan myself – it's a stat, but a qualitative one - but Evatt takes note of it, and so do a great many professional football teams, so there's that. It's a gauge, and a useful one, more accurate than shots or shots on target.

Of course, the only stat that really matters for goal attempts is goals scored, which is a rather reductive analysis, but it gives simplicity. Last six: Zero, zero, zero, five, zero, zero.
Last edited by Dave Sutton's barnet on Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Will Evatt make Addick out of Adkins? Charlton (A), 7:45pm, Tuesday 28/09/21

Post by TonyDomingos » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:51 pm

So, we're agreed? Goals "for" good; goals "against" bad. I'm pleased we got there in the end. :D
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