Plymouth match

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Worthy4England
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Re: Plymouth match

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:50 pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:32 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:19 pm
It's a bit harsh to criticise FV for doing what they've said they'd do. They have provided funds to strengthen every window, they've invested in backroom to improve recruitment (and rectified a big mistake in phoenix, for whom i.blame Peter fecking Kenyon) Unfortunately players that looked a good fit have been a bit shit so far.
I'll be looking at the next window with interest, seen nothing to suggest we won't strengthen again.

As for this game, it's actually going better than I anticipated at 2-0!
Saturday is the important one, because if we lose that then we're in trouble.
I'm not necessarily having a dig at FV, I was asking BWFCI as he appears to know FV really well if their 3 year plan was to stabilise in League 1 in the 3rd year - if that's the plan then I'm ok with it as I'm happy to just stay up this year, my point is if FV are not going to spend a bit (even if its just on wages i.e. Wigan) then we will just probably stay in League 1 for the next 2,3,4 years ? surely FV want to get some money back by moving up the leagues not just remain as a League 1 club for the foreseeable ?

We can look to recruit well in January but if we are not going to invest (even a little) on slightly better wages, then we will just keep getting the players that the better teams don't want, I'm not saying that its right but the better quality players will go to clubs offering the better wages, so again my question is how do we improve enough to get out of League 1 even after another few years in League 1 without more investment in wages to attract the better quality players ?, I'm not asking for FV to break the bank but surely they won't be satisfied staying in League 1 for another few years even if some fans are ok with that.
It's sorta moot. If they were sat on a "war-chest", you can only assume they were happy with the summer's business, as best they could be (think there were a couple of "ones that got away.").

There's only them know what breaks the bank, but the three year plan won't have been banking on COVID.

For what we don't know about FV, we do know they've talked about not breaking the bank, being sustainable etc. etc. We'll have to wait and see what Jan brings...

It's not a case of fans being ok with it. We've got what we've got and I reckon most would rather we didn't come 72 hours from liquidation again.

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Bruce Rioja
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Re: Plymouth match

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:52 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:46 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:40 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:36 pm
2-0 away from home few minutes left free kick just outside the box and the gormless Brockbank takes a quick one. FFS.
Why wouldn't he?
Because we could have loaded the box instead we ran it out of play… with only two men up….
That's not Brockbank's fault. Where the feck were we?
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Re: Plymouth match

Post by LeverEnd » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:56 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:52 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:46 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:40 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:36 pm
2-0 away from home few minutes left free kick just outside the box and the gormless Brockbank takes a quick one. FFS.
Why wouldn't he?
Because we could have loaded the box instead we ran it out of play… with only two men up….
That's not Brockbank's fault. Where the feck were we?
And we hardly have great form for direct set pieces so would've come to nothing either way.

Plus I imagine Brockbank has instructions what to do there, and if there's nowt to aim at...
...

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Re: Plymouth match

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:03 pm

Interesting run of fixtures after this -
Gillingham at home
Nailed on pasting at Pompey, then
Two cup games (county home and Rochdale)
Crewe at home on the Friday (3 games in a week)
The 8 days until Wycombe, Doncaster (tue) and Cheltenham both at home.

Those would all be home games we were targeting with wins. We’ll be facing teams hoping to keep us at bay passing between ourselves and looking to nick one off a set piece…

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Re: Plymouth match

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:03 pm

What’s the crack with Declan John? What’s his latest injury?

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Re: Plymouth match

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:50 pm

Well that were shite. Again.

Appalling defending from the off and looked like were going to ship half a dozen, easy. Much better in the 2nd half, particularly when Sarc & Doyler came on but yet another keeper who won't have to put his gloves in the wash.

As others have mentioned, I was incredulous at us trying to continue to pass short to each other once it was clear the ball was no longer travelling. Conceding that 3rd in that manner was shocking.

Free kicks. Not just tonight but all bloody season. We're chasing the game, we get a free kick in the opponents half - time and again we play it short and it either ends up back with Dixon or out of play. Would it not be worth occasionally lobbing one towards the box?

We're on a worrying downwards spiral which we need to arrest soon.
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Re: Plymouth match

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:51 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:56 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:52 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:46 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:40 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:36 pm
2-0 away from home few minutes left free kick just outside the box and the gormless Brockbank takes a quick one. FFS.
Why wouldn't he?
Because we could have loaded the box instead we ran it out of play… with only two men up….
That's not Brockbank's fault. Where the feck were we?
And we hardly have great form for direct set pieces so would've come to nothing either way.

Plus I imagine Brockbank has instructions what to do there, and if there's nowt to aim at...
Evatt is criticising them for trying to play it short in last ten. He’s right but then why were players ignoring the bench?

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Re: Plymouth match

Post by LeverEnd » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:26 pm

Well if he did ignore the bench then I stand corrected and he should be dropped. I just don't trust that Evatt has coached them properly in set pieces, hence my comment. I wasn't watching so accept I may be wrong.
...

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Re: Plymouth match

Post by Prufrock » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:31 am

That was a farce from start to finish. I don't think I'll ever be dry again.

Gordon and Brocky are league two players at an absolute push, and probably non league. Bakayoko was genuinely woeful, a 1/10. Isgrove not up to it.

Very, very bad.
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Re: Plymouth match

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:40 am

Devon knows I’m miserable now….

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Re: Plymouth match

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:28 am

Some thoughts.

Thanks to Ibahjanner for parking tip - got away very easily despite the monsoon. Sadly, half an hour up the road the car packed up and we’re still inching back via RAC-organised relay of local tow-trucks. It’s 2am and we’ve made it as far as Exeter. Gonna be a long night.

The match looked like a well-drilled established third-tier team against naive newbies with 3/4 of their defence missing. (In truth, we don’t play much better with our first choices, but that’s by the by for now.)

Plymouth deserved the win - Evatt’s post-match blather that we had the better “moments” is pure hooey - but they didn’t look gobsmacking. Maybe they didn’t have to, and had gears in reserve.

Our reserves are better than Liverpool’s U21s and possibly Port Vale too but sickeningly out of their depth here. And by reserves here I mean the full-backs, who are vital in this formation, and for tonight at least the centre-forward.

Sorry Baka, I wish you well but after an awful display wide right on Saturday you had an absolute stinker tonight, competition-winner style. I saw one good touch all night, and by then Doyle was stripped and ready. The Irishman probably needed resting in a rare three-game week but this will also ensure his name is cheered at being among the XI on Saturday.

Being in no rush to join the second-tier fiscal death march, I’m fine with being in this division for three, maybe five seasons if we continue to improve. But we have to improve in January, and by the same sort of paradigm as last January, because the summer signings simply haven’t boosted us as much.

Sheehan looks woefully low on confidence, as does Kachunga. Johnston is a ball player with a high ceiling but he’s got some learning to do. Dixon will do for now. Baka is a curate’s egg and a curious signing for an Evatt team. Right now, IMO, only Johnston and Dixon of the summer signings get in our best XI, and arguably mainly because their predecessors are pensionable.

The very minimum we need in January are reliable backups in both full-back positions, defensive midfield and centre-forward - but even hiring incrementally more able deputies won’t push us on, it will just make us less worse when the first choices are out.

The difficulty with improving a squad is you need to keep dragging up the bottom while also heightening the top - although right now it doesn’t feel like we’re anywhere near having to worry about the top of this division, let alone troubling the next.

We need to improve personnel but we also need to improve coaching. We have to do something about our woeful set-pieces, attacking and defending.

Tactically, if Evatt is to be wise rather than stubborn, he simply must return to the defensive “box” of last Jan-May with two holding midfielders. As good as MJ is, he can’t do it all alone - and meanwhile Sheehan, for whom we assumed the switch to “a 6 and two 8s” was supposed to accommodate, is so out of form that he’s often out of the team.

It’s also not working. Those early “you score three, we’ll score three” ding-dong dos have fallen away and we’re now suffering “you score three, we’ll watch”. What’s worse, we’ve now gone from Not Taking Chances to Not Making Chances.

Right now, we almost always concede first, we rarely score and we usually lose. That’s relegation habits. I still think we are good enough to stay up but it requires the sort of rethink Evatt has proven himself capable of before.

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Re: Plymouth match

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:57 am

^^ It’s somewhat concerning that the match attendees see it as starkly as those of us who watched from home. I was also incredibly irked by Evatt who after rightly calling us naive and soft decided to say we had the ‘best moments in the game’. Which either shows an extreme lack of judgement and understanding or reflects a manager who doesn’t understand how to turn it round.

I will say this - Saturday we have to as a priority be set up to keep a clean sheet. If it’s 0-0 then so be it. It stops the rot. But you cannot have anything good from a team built on sand and for all our inability to score in recent games the biggest problem is only Morecambe have conceded more than we have. Attacking wise it’s clear we’ve got what we’ve got for now but defensively we do have shapes and even players we’ve not yet tried.

The full backs are very poor though I’d say it’s slightly harsh on Gordon. He’s probably just about a league one backup for a club just promoted. Brockbank is and I’ve said this before just simply not a league footballer. It’s sad but abundantly obvious.

Baka I’m at the point of saying he shouldn’t figure again after two of the most lacklustre lazy and downright disgraceful performances in a white shirt I can remember. And Sheehan it’s just that he offers nothing other than little occasional nice touches on the ball. And it’s been that way since the start. I’m not sure what he is but for me he’s a complete luxury who needs carrying and not a very good one at that.

Saturday is a day for 11 grafters. No fancy nonsense. Just get out there and scrap and fight and mean it. And don’t concede. Do everything not to concede a goal.

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Re: Plymouth match

Post by Jim_McDonuts » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:11 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:40 am
Devon knows I’m miserable now….
Sorry to hear about your vehicle woes DSB.
Hopefully some solace in that the above line officially wins the interweb for today.

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Re: Plymouth match

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:14 am

Jim_McDonuts wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:11 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:40 am
Devon knows I’m miserable now….
Sorry to hear about your vehicle woes DSB.
Hopefully some solace in that the above line officially wins the interweb for today.
7am and we’re still only at Yeovil, awaiting the third tow truck in our very slow relay…

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Worthy4England
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Re: Plymouth match

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:26 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:14 am
Jim_McDonuts wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:11 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:40 am
Devon knows I’m miserable now….
Sorry to hear about your vehicle woes DSB.
Hopefully some solace in that the above line officially wins the interweb for today.
7am and we’re still only at Yeovil, awaiting the third tow truck in our very slow relay…
Wow. Hope it speeds up a bit DSB, you're in danger of missing Christmas...

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Re: Plymouth match

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:32 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:26 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:14 am
Jim_McDonuts wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:11 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:40 am
Devon knows I’m miserable now….
Sorry to hear about your vehicle woes DSB.
Hopefully some solace in that the above line officially wins the interweb for today.
7am and we’re still only at Yeovil, awaiting the third tow truck in our very slow relay…
Wow. Hope it speeds up a bit DSB, you're in danger of missing Christmas...
Now there is daylight and fresh tachometers I’m hoping the next baton-carrier - due any moment, but aren’t they always - will complete the remaining two-hour journey to my local garage. At one point during the dark watches of the night The Legendary Flanners considered walking six miles to a train station to catch the first morning service, until a £160 ticket cost put him off. Instead we dozed fitfully in a petrol-station car park while thunder and lightning did their thing above. It’s very tempting to take a pathetic-fallacy reading of events.

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Re: Plymouth match

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:32 am

Wow. You won’t forget this trip in a hurry.

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Re: Plymouth match

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:03 am

That third goal is getting some serious ironic airtime. Shows up the ridiculousness of it all. Evatt ball indeed.

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Re: Plymouth match

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:14 am

Evatt: “It was farcical but what is frustrating from my perspective is that we are still trying to play short on a pitch where the ball isn’t rolling. I can’t think for the life of me how we are not communicating or recognising that. It is down to naivety.”

He’s done plenty wrong but for me that’s on the players and their lack of match intelligence. You shouldn’t need help or content downloading to realise that if the ball don’t roll, you don’t roll it.

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Re: Plymouth match

Post by The_Gun » Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:49 am

Dear lord, that's an absolute shocker, DSB. Hope you can have a nice quiet one today to recuperate.

If anything the reports coming from those at the match are even more negative than the takes from those of us who were cosily ensconced in front of iFollow. Don't know whether the apocalyptic conditions played a role in that, but it's clear to everyone that we're not in a good place right now.

Really hoping that Amaechi turns out to be a good 'un, because we're desperately short of attacking quality right now.

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