FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:23 am

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:38 am
You could hear Evatt and the staff over the BBC mics calling for the players to calm down on the ball and get in people's faces off it.

"George! George! Time George!" *HOOOOOOOOF!*
"Baka, get at him. Now, Baka, get at him!" *slow jog*

The lads' heads went. You can talk about the manager doing this and that to change structure or whatever, but once players' heads go it's like herding cats. You need a couple of players in the side who will say, "This is what we're going to do" and the only player we had doing that did his knee.

Bunch of panic fannies the lot of them. Ultimately, all responsibility will reach the manager; but they let him down last night. You saw precisely why they are playing where they are in the league pyramid.
The criticism of Evatt is that he got carried away and thought we were great when its painfully obvious we haven't got the balance right in the squad. For me that's two summer windows where I'd say the majority of new signings are duds. And that's a worrying trend. I think he needs a sit down with some experience to work out that how he wants to play is fine but you have to balance out the other side of the game in your squad.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:27 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:19 am
Evatt's in the Evening News saying "I wondered what would happen if we lost MJ and there's the answer". Really? The more Evatt attempts to absolve himself, the more ridicule he attracts.
We've just shipped seven over two games against a non-league side.
Sort it out, you c*nt.
I wondered what would happen if we lost our only midfield player...yeah its stuff like this that frustrates me.

Bruce Rioch liked to play football but he wouldn't tolerate a group of wallflowers and that's what we are.

In terms of real drive and determination I'd say we have MJ and Doyle and Sarce (before he went) and Gethin Jones who is injured. One of those we let go, and 3 unavailable last night. And frankly its nowhere near enough. We need a side full of those types.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by GhostoftheBok » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:34 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:23 am
The criticism of Evatt is that he got carried away and thought we were great when its painfully obvious we haven't got the balance right in the squad.
Agreed, yes. We were all talking in the summer about how we'd not done enough of the right things to kick on and we described where the issues would be. It wasn't one or two of us, basically everyone saw it - even people who don't agree on much.

I don't think the window was as bad as you do, by the sounds of it; but Ian clearly got ahead of himself.

If we have Gordon, Baps, Brocky, Thomason, Tutte, Delf etc as necessaries in a League One squad you're unlikely to win the league.

We've some lads who could change things, but who can't stay fit. Other lads who have stepped into the shoes of experienced leaders with hardly any league football under their belts. Key players who need a structure around them we can't provide (Sheehan and Doyle being the obvious ones). Then we painfully lack depth in vital areas.

For me (still), we are not that far off a very competitive 11, but we're miles off a 22-25 and our 11 can't stay fit.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by DJBlu » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:46 am

Dare I say that this squad is still in its infancy and they will learn from this.

It is doom and gloom at the minute but we are at the beginning of the project. We can't paint the walls until the plaster had dried.

Last night did feel like the inspector said the retaining wall is shit and needs replacing but it will and we'll rebuild.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:51 am

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:34 am
For me (still), we are not that far off a very competitive 11, but we're miles off a 22-25 and our 11 can't stay fit.
I think we're one of those sides that can beat anyone (perhaps) but can also lose to anyone (obviously). I still think, or at least hope, that we're better than enough sides to stay up; this month's fixtures will give us an indication, but Crewe looked a division worse than us. It's the easiest division to get relegated from (four slots) but thankfully there's a few baaaad teams. We need to make sure we're not one of them.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:56 am

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:30 am
I've said before I am not panicking over this run and I'm still not, but a result like that has to have you rethinking your life choices. Never mind supporting Evatt, I had flashbacks to an awful shirt I wore in 1997.

After that game, everything is on the table. Evatt's ability to revive this squad and get a reaction out of them is going to be the real test. If we are shocking gain against Wycombe then people like Insane and DSB will start to look entirely justified in basically calling for a rebuild. I'd say Evatt has probably earned the right to conduct that rebuild, but if he can't arrest this slide then he will be at real risk.

I still, even after this, think this squad isn't miles off. We basically have no midfield right now and so Evattball is going to be, let's say "interesting" for a bit. This squad has been built on a shoestring to play one style of football and it requires a decent midfield.

Ultimately I think Evatt needs 8-9 players, but I had thought we could do that as 3-4 in January and the rest in the summer and still be fine. We'll see.
Saying he needs half a new squad every window, doesn't strike me as sustainable...

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:59 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:49 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:25 am
"People talk about old school, new school – the game hasn’t changed, it hasn’t. Unless you run, scrap, fight as the basics and bare minimum, you will get beat."

“We can concentrate on pass detail, rotation, technical positions, playing out from the back – you have to run and fight and scrap, and tonight we didn’t do that well enough.”

There's them basics getting another mention...
Don't always agree with you Worthy, but on this 100 %. " Bang it up to the big lad" was their only game plan, and they sent more deliveries into our box than an Amazon warehouse at Christmas, but that worked fine against a spineless display that saw us bullied, out-muscled, out-fought and yes, Mr Evatt, totally out-thought. Not felt this ashamed since we lost 5-0 to Stoke. It hurts.

As a by-the-way, I thought the ref must have been a fan of cage-fighting as some of his decisions had me gibbering.
I can relieve you on the not always agreeing TD - they're Evatt's words not mine (apart from the last sentence)

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:00 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:51 am
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:34 am
For me (still), we are not that far off a very competitive 11, but we're miles off a 22-25 and our 11 can't stay fit.
I think we're one of those sides that can beat anyone (perhaps) but can also lose to anyone (obviously). I still think, or at least hope, that we're better than enough sides to stay up; this month's fixtures will give us an indication, but Crewe looked a division worse than us. It's the easiest division to get relegated from (four slots) but thankfully there's a few baaaad teams. We need to make sure we're not one of them.
I think we'll have enough providing Dapo and MJ stay fit and aren't sold. I'd worry if we lost either of those for a period or they were sold.

Even then I think we could if form and confidence continue to dip seriously flirt with the bottom 4. Crewe did look woeful as their points return suggests. But there are 3 more spaces gaping...and Shrewsbury didn't look much worse than us IMHO. Two wonder strikes beat them but it wasn't straightforward.

But I do think we'd need a collapse to end up down or some strange events. The worry as Worthy points out is that's now two summers we've clearly made some bad calls. Not just on new signings but also retentions. Can't keep needing a rebuild.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by GhostoftheBok » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:03 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:51 am
I think we're one of those sides that can beat anyone (perhaps) but can also lose to anyone (obviously). I still think, or at least hope, that we're better than enough sides to stay up; this month's fixtures will give us an indication, but Crewe looked a division worse than us. It's the easiest division to get relegated from (four slots) but thankfully there's a few baaaad teams. We need to make sure we're not one of them.
I don't fancy us to go down, but whether we are in the mix by January will depend on the next 3 games. If we lost all of them, for example, we'd be heavily in it. If we are still clear by Jan there's no chance. This is a vital period and could literally make the difference between going down and dreaming of the play offs.

We switched out of that 4-4-2 block out of possession that served us so well against Crewe, anticipating Stockport's directness; but it was a mistake. If we bring it back, depending on what we have in midfield, I think we'd look a lot more solid.

As to "we could beat anyone", we couldn't beat eggs playing like we did last night. We will probably lose to Wycombe, but we'd sure as hell better see a performance.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by GhostoftheBok » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:06 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:56 am
Saying he needs half a new squad every window, doesn't strike me as sustainable...
It's planned into the transfer strategy. If you look at the contract situations the squad is designed to be renewed as we go up the leagues, with key positions targeted each window. You don't build a squad in league two and then stick with it all the way up. You sort out a promotion squad, then shed players to sort out another, then do it again.

If you manage to get a player who is good enough to be back up in the Championship when you are in League Two you've played an absolute blinder.
Last edited by GhostoftheBok on Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:07 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:19 am
Evatt's in the Evening News saying "I wondered what would happen if we lost MJ and there's the answer". Really? The more Evatt attempts to absolve himself, the more ridicule he attracts.
We've just shipped seven over two games against a non-league side.
Sort it out, you c*nt.
^^

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:12 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:06 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:56 am
Saying he needs half a new squad every window, doesn't strike me as sustainable...
It's planned into the transfer strategy. If you look at the contract situations the squad is designed to be renewed as we go up the leagues, with key positions targeted each window. You don't build a squad in league two and then stick with it all the way up. You sort out a promotion squad, then shed players to sort out another, then do it again.

If you manage to get a player who is good enough to be back up in the Championship when you are in League Two you've played an absolutely blinder.
Great - so we have 8/9 expiring in January....let's ship some!

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by GhostoftheBok » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:20 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:12 pm
Great - so we have 8/9 expiring in January....let's ship some!
We're not quite Oyston's Blackpool. No 6 month contracts and decidedly fewer rapists.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:25 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:00 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:51 am
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:34 am
For me (still), we are not that far off a very competitive 11, but we're miles off a 22-25 and our 11 can't stay fit.
I think we're one of those sides that can beat anyone (perhaps) but can also lose to anyone (obviously). I still think, or at least hope, that we're better than enough sides to stay up; this month's fixtures will give us an indication, but Crewe looked a division worse than us. It's the easiest division to get relegated from (four slots) but thankfully there's a few baaaad teams. We need to make sure we're not one of them.
I think we'll have enough providing Dapo and MJ stay fit and aren't sold. I'd worry if we lost either of those for a period or they were sold.

Even then I think we could if form and confidence continue to dip seriously flirt with the bottom 4. Crewe did look woeful as their points return suggests. But there are 3 more spaces gaping...and Shrewsbury didn't look much worse than us IMHO. Two wonder strikes beat them but it wasn't straightforward.

But I do think we'd need a collapse to end up down or some strange events. The worry as Worthy points out is that's now two summers we've clearly made some bad calls. Not just on new signings but also retentions. Can't keep needing a rebuild.
Yesterday we were missing Jones, MJ, Doyle - whilst I think they might have made "a difference" - I'm not convinced they'd have made "the difference"

We've been outclassed, outplayed, out thought to a team that's mid-table in the National League, shipping 7 goals on the way and despite missing Jones and MJ, we let them score 2 when MJ was playing. I've not mentioned Doyler, because Baka actually played a big part in two of the goals.

The narrative around shape, formation, single pivots, double pivots is one for after us being able to tackle, pass and run into the right places. The basics - as Evatt said...

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:26 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:20 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:12 pm
Great - so we have 8/9 expiring in January....let's ship some!
We're not quite Oyston's Blackpool. No 6 month contracts and decidedly fewer rapists.
That was the shortest strategy I think I've ever seen..

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by GhostoftheBok » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:35 pm

If we can move a few on in January I think we will. There might be takers for Delf and Gordon. Tutte and Baps you'd imagine we are stuck with until summer. I was dead against retaining Tutte in the summer but explained it to myself as a character in the dressing room. It's looking increasingly like an awful call from the manager. He's always had injury issues and if he comes back fit he's not good enough for this league.

If Delf and Gordon go and with Sarce having walked, does that leave us 4 or 5 squad spaces for senior pros? Might be 6 now I do a count. Either way, enough to make an impact if there are funds going.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:39 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:35 pm
If Delf and Gordon go and with Sarce having walked, does that leave us 4 or 5 squad spaces for senior pros? Might be 6 now I do a count.
Going to try to get to the bottom of this, over on the transfer thread.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:42 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:35 pm
If we can move a few on in January I think we will. There might be takers for Delf and Gordon. Tutte and Baps you'd imagine we are stuck with until summer. I was dead against retaining Tutte in the summer but explained it to myself as a character in the dressing room. It's looking increasingly like an awful call from the manager. He's always had injury issues and if he comes back fit he's not good enough for this league.

If Delf and Gordon go and with Sarce having walked, does that leave us 4 or 5 squad spaces for senior pros? Might be 6 now I do a count. Either way, enough to make an impact if there are funds going.
Aye - that's the hope...Not losing sight of the fact that despite our current "run", we're still half way up and half way down....

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:47 pm

Delf wants free transferring. He’s stunk the place out for a year now and he was a disgrace last night. Not on his own (last night) but he’s stealing a living here.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by nicholaldo » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:21 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:38 am
You could hear Evatt and the staff over the BBC mics calling for the players to calm down on the ball and get in people's faces off it.

"George! George! Time George!" *HOOOOOOOOF!*
"Baka, get at him. Now, Baka, get at him!" *slow jog*

The lads' heads went. You can talk about the manager doing this and that to change structure or whatever, but once players' heads go it's like herding cats. You need a couple of players in the side who will say, "This is what we're going to do" and the only player we had doing that did his knee.

Bunch of panic fannies the lot of them. Ultimately, all responsibility will reach the manager; but they let him down last night. You saw precisely why they are playing where they are in the league pyramid.

Right, but I'd argue it's equally if not more plausible heads dropped because they knew they were being asked to do things that wouldn't work. It seems futile asking the players to be calmer in posession when numerically and physically dominated in the middle of the pitch.

If ever there were a night to cede possession, adopt a low block and restrict the space in the first third it was last night and it concerns me that we didn't even think about giving it a go.

Obviously you aren't going to agree so it's probably best to leave it there.

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