FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:24 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:47 pm
Delf wants free transferring. He’s stunk the place out for a year now and he was a disgrace last night. Not on his own (last night) but he’s stealing a living here.
I wouldn't personally say he's stealing a living, I'd just say that he's gone. But of the five players who are out of contract in summer - he, Baps, Edwards, Gordon, Tutte – I imagine he's on the biggest wage, and we could do with cutting those losses. For me, same goes with Baps. Tough decisions for Evatt to force his old mates towards the door, but hopefully sense (or self-preservation) will prevail.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:27 pm

Delfs 29/30 isn’t he? Shouldn’t be past it, but plays like he is. Disgraceful how he ambled round last night avoiding getting stuck in.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:40 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:27 pm
Delfs 29/30 isn’t he? Shouldn’t be past it, but plays like he is. Disgraceful how he ambled round last night avoiding getting stuck in.
30 now, 31 in February. I don't think his legs have gone, he just needs a new start (IMO).

Baps is 36 in January.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by GhostoftheBok » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:43 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:21 pm
Obviously you aren't going to agree so it's probably best to leave it there.
Probably best. What I will say is that we've been seeing Johnston hoof the ball since he arrived. He had passing options, he just didn't use them.

Baka not closing down was arguably because he was shattered. He's a big unit and it takes a lot of energy to push it around. Evatt dropped a bollock by abandoning that 4-4-2 block we used against Crewe, which saw Lee supporting Baka in the press. I'm inclined to think it was pure arrogance, wanting his team to play like Barcelona for the cameras - but that 4-4-2 out of possession is the best we've looked defensively all season.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by boltonboris » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:45 pm

As bad as it gets and I'm still absolutely fuming with them all. Absolute cowards
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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:50 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:21 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:38 am
You could hear Evatt and the staff over the BBC mics calling for the players to calm down on the ball and get in people's faces off it.

"George! George! Time George!" *HOOOOOOOOF!*
"Baka, get at him. Now, Baka, get at him!" *slow jog*

The lads' heads went. You can talk about the manager doing this and that to change structure or whatever, but once players' heads go it's like herding cats. You need a couple of players in the side who will say, "This is what we're going to do" and the only player we had doing that did his knee.

Bunch of panic fannies the lot of them. Ultimately, all responsibility will reach the manager; but they let him down last night. You saw precisely why they are playing where they are in the league pyramid.

Right, but I'd argue it's equally if not more plausible heads dropped because they knew they were being asked to do things that wouldn't work. It seems futile asking the players to be calmer in posession when numerically and physically dominated in the middle of the pitch.

If ever there were a night to cede possession, adopt a low block and restrict the space in the first third it was last night and it concerns me that we didn't even think about giving it a go.

Obviously you aren't going to agree so it's probably best to leave it there.
I think for once we had an effective out so sitting deeper and hitting them with Dapo, Baka and Kacha sounds a better plan than what we did do. Especially at 3-1.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:00 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:45 pm
As bad as it gets and I'm still absolutely fuming with them all. Absolute cowards
It's probably a good job they're away at weekend TBF...

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Prufrock » Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:57 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:50 pm
nicholaldo wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:21 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:38 am
You could hear Evatt and the staff over the BBC mics calling for the players to calm down on the ball and get in people's faces off it.

"George! George! Time George!" *HOOOOOOOOF!*
"Baka, get at him. Now, Baka, get at him!" *slow jog*

The lads' heads went. You can talk about the manager doing this and that to change structure or whatever, but once players' heads go it's like herding cats. You need a couple of players in the side who will say, "This is what we're going to do" and the only player we had doing that did his knee.

Bunch of panic fannies the lot of them. Ultimately, all responsibility will reach the manager; but they let him down last night. You saw precisely why they are playing where they are in the league pyramid.

Right, but I'd argue it's equally if not more plausible heads dropped because they knew they were being asked to do things that wouldn't work. It seems futile asking the players to be calmer in posession when numerically and physically dominated in the middle of the pitch.

If ever there were a night to cede possession, adopt a low block and restrict the space in the first third it was last night and it concerns me that we didn't even think about giving it a go.

Obviously you aren't going to agree so it's probably best to leave it there.
I think for once we had an effective out so sitting deeper and hitting them with Dapo, Baka and Kacha sounds a better plan than what we did do. Especially at 3-1.
Tbf I think that's what we tried to do second half. Defend another four minutes and it's "ok that was shit" but 3-2 at half time with their tails up we ground it out and got out of dodge". There was certainly no attempt to play through them second half.

I mean it was still awful. Lee and Thomason as a two was about as bad as it gets. Thomason can't cope at all when he gets hustled, and Lee was atrocious (I'm going to be incredibly kind and say he looked knackered, but omg). The one where he had absolutely acres and sort of prodded it into nothing.

I think first half we really struggled with their shape. Quigley and Madden were running channels and so we couldn't leave them 1v1. So Isgrove and John stayed it but it meant their wing backs had acres and/or pushed Kachunga and Dapo back. Sheehan's injury meant that I can see the logic (given the paucity of midfield options) in matching them up with a back 5. But it was very very bad. Because of the midfield.

For Wycombe, if MJ is out we might as well not show up. If he is I think you have to go him and Lee together at the base and either Dapo at 10 and Delf/Amaechi wide, or Delf at ten. Both of those are very much making the best of a bad deck.
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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by boltonboris » Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:08 pm

^^

Thomason and Lee together were indeed as bad as it gets. My biggest concern is that area. They offer nothing defensively (well, they offered feck all offensively, too)

We lack pace and aggression. The Centre Backs are the same - Zero aggression. We can't even put big defenders in front, because they're absolute cowards who don't like running and tackling

It's looking grim and the spine of the team needs replacing in January. GK, CB, DM, MF, ST

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by GhostoftheBok » Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:12 pm

To Johnston's very limited credit he came out at first and was pretty aggressive. He won a few headers and got physical with Madden. Then he took one look at Quigley and promptly shat himself.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Prufrock » Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:23 pm

He looks like he doesn't know how to cope for his lack of size, he's actually pretty good at getting up for long balls forward, but Quigley bullied him. He didn't know whether to get tight (didn't work, got rolled easily for a shot from the edge of the box) try to nullify it by pushing up (no communication with Santos for the 4th, Quigley just ran in behind), drop off (led to an easy pass wide and a million crosses). He's still learning so he might figure that out, but Cannavaro (or even Simon Charlton) he ain't. He could be a centre back in a back 3, but not a 4 for me, not now and maybe not ever.

Boris, I don't think Dixon is the answer but I think he's fine for now. In that I don't think he's a catastrophe in the way almost every other unit of the team is right now. So summer for me, unless we fix the other areas first and there's a good option.
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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by GhostoftheBok » Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:52 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:23 pm
He looks like he doesn't know how to cope for his lack of size, he's actually pretty good at getting up for long balls forward, but Quigley bullied him. He didn't know whether to get tight (didn't work, got rolled easily for a shot from the edge of the box) try to nullify it by pushing up (no communication with Santos for the 4th, Quigley just ran in behind), drop off (led to an easy pass wide and a million crosses). He's still learning so he might figure that out, but Cannavaro (or even Simon Charlton) he ain't. He could be a centre back in a back 3, but not a 4 for me, not now and maybe not ever.
Cannavro would have put Quigley in the fecking stands after 5 minutes, taken his yellow card and then wound the lad up all night by just getting in the way - the number of forwards he got sent off after he got booked first was unreal. Johnston is in his first proper season and has no nouse. It was arguably a good lesson for him, if he can recover his confidence.

His body positioning, his footwork and his distribution all need work; but he's raw rather than awful. Everyone is right that he has to be better than good to reach the same level as bigger lads in that position. I don't see him in training, so I have no idea how good he looks there, but he has the tools to be a player at this level with proper coaching. His touch is fine, as is his timing and he can defend on the back foot - those are tough to coach.

If Evatt was half the defender (and coach) he thinks then he should improve Johnston massively. Thus far I'm not seeing any improvement after 20 games or whatever it is. If anything he's regressed due to nerves. As Insane said, he's probably be doing better in a Parky side - certainly he would be under Sam, who got the most of of Haim - who always claimed he was 6'0" but never was.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by nicholaldo » Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:33 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:50 pm
nicholaldo wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:21 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:38 am
You could hear Evatt and the staff over the BBC mics calling for the players to calm down on the ball and get in people's faces off it.

"George! George! Time George!" *HOOOOOOOOF!*
"Baka, get at him. Now, Baka, get at him!" *slow jog*

The lads' heads went. You can talk about the manager doing this and that to change structure or whatever, but once players' heads go it's like herding cats. You need a couple of players in the side who will say, "This is what we're going to do" and the only player we had doing that did his knee.

Bunch of panic fannies the lot of them. Ultimately, all responsibility will reach the manager; but they let him down last night. You saw precisely why they are playing where they are in the league pyramid.

Right, but I'd argue it's equally if not more plausible heads dropped because they knew they were being asked to do things that wouldn't work. It seems futile asking the players to be calmer in posession when numerically and physically dominated in the middle of the pitch.

If ever there were a night to cede possession, adopt a low block and restrict the space in the first third it was last night and it concerns me that we didn't even think about giving it a go.

Obviously you aren't going to agree so it's probably best to leave it there.
I think for once we had an effective out so sitting deeper and hitting them with Dapo, Baka and Kacha sounds a better plan than what we did do. Especially at 3-1.

Exactly. With a lead to defend and an already ineffective midfield further weakened it seemed like an idea worth trying to me. At least we'd be defending with the action in front of us.

I'm unconvinced we even attempted to give it a go in the second half. It seemed to me to be happening by default rather than as a result of a concious tactical instruction. It could easily have failed but at least it would've been reassuring to see that we knew why we were finding it so difficult to get a foothold and did something to address it.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:11 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:08 pm
Thomason and Lee together were indeed as bad as it gets. My biggest concern is that area. They offer nothing defensively (well, they offered feck all offensively, too)
I took the liberty of re-watching the first half and specifically Sheehan. If he was any better than Thomason and Lee last night, I missed it.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by GhostoftheBok » Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:37 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:11 pm
I took the liberty of re-watching the first half and specifically Sheehan. If he was any better than Thomason and Lee last night, I missed it.
You poor, poor bastard. Someone owes you a beer for sitting through that again.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by GhostoftheBok » Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:08 am

Whilst it was, as someone else said, a tallest Dwarf competition, Sheehan was better.

If you watch the build-up to our second goal Sheehan wins the ball back in the channel and plays it forward, we lose it and he wins it again and puts the ball over the top for Baka. Then as play develops it is Sheehan who is then at the opposite end of the pitch in the forward channel who takes the ball and puts it in for their own goal. He was also the one in our box mopping up.

He wasn't good enough, for me, but he was better. After he went off Lee and Thomason plumbed new depths. I think Sheehan, Rico, Baka (who I thought was poor, but as every with forwards it's what's behind them) and Kachunga could have played in a winning side on Friday and nobody else could. It may well be that Sheehan would have made me just as angry as the others if he had played the full 90 and been a part of the total collapse.


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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:05 am

Yes he did that. And not the only occasion he got up and down the pitch. He also watched the cross come in for their second. And I'd be very surprised if both Lee and Thomason didn't put in a huge amount more tackles in the first ten minutes, than he managed in 47. So some things he did better, others were missing.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by GhostoftheBok » Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:10 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:05 am
He also watched the cross come in for their second.
He did, yes. I have forgiven him that due to him only having one leg at the time, but he was at fault.

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Re: FA Cup 1st Round Replay..: Stocky Tony’s County Away..Stockport replay Wednesday 17th live BBC 2

Post by TANGODANCER » Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:06 am

So, let's put a line under it and move on. As they say in "Gone with the Wind" Tomorrow is another day.. :oyea:
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