Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Post Reply
User avatar
officer_dibble
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 13819
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:27 am

Stop the rot please!

Back to basics, don’t concede an early goal and build from there!

Santos will surely return, as will Doyle and Sarce. Sicknote Declan John??

LeverEnd
Legend
Legend
Posts: 9969
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:18 pm
Location: Dirty Leeds

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:42 am

officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:27 am
Stop the rot please!

Back to basics, don’t concede an early goal and build from there!

Santos will surely return, as will Doyle and Sarce. Sicknote Declan John??
With Lee back as well we should be good enough. I'm going to firmly fence sit on the defence attack thing, but the defence could do the attack a big favour by not giving stupid early goals away and an incentive to sit in.
Attack is blunt enough as it is without that.
Score first we'll win.
...

User avatar
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 32273
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:44 am

Despite a lot of negativity, from the last few results, there's no reason we can't get a result in this one. I think some people mentally have us challenging for the top - and we're a long way short of that mark. Equally, we shouldn't be in a dogfight at the bottom. But we've had some really tough games recently and even if we've struggled more than we'd like, I think we should be mid-table come the end of the season. On that basis I can see a win although it might be nervy and squeaky.

Interesting analysis from Brommers, that the Plymouth team ain't thrown lots of cash at the problem. I do see why Evatt might have wanted to boost his squad's credibility by retaining players and that all the step up needed was more effort. I think that's close to being disproven, but in a concerning way rather than a knee-jerking way, at the moment. Couple of the right mettle signings in Jan should see us safe.

I also think the notion that we'll just score more than you, playing the beautiful game, isn't a sound one either - sure might work when you're City just buying who you need when you need them, but we're not City. There will be times we do play the beautiful game, but why would anyone think it was the norm? We need to tighten up in defence. There weren't 5 gilt edged chances just going begging v Wigan, nor were there 4 against Plymouth (Sarce's looked a decent one though :-) )

So tighten up at the back please and hope our misfiring at the front (which is also an issue) can grab one or two for a 1-0/2-1 win.

Of course with us being at home, conceding early goal(s) might not endear the luvvies to a restless crowd...

User avatar
BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 36008
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:27 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:44 am
Despite a lot of negativity, from the last few results, there's no reason we can't get a result in this one. I think some people mentally have us challenging for the top - and we're a long way short of that mark. Equally, we shouldn't be in a dogfight at the bottom. But we've had some really tough games recently and even if we've struggled more than we'd like, I think we should be mid-table come the end of the season. On that basis I can see a win although it might be nervy and squeaky.

Interesting analysis from Brommers, that the Plymouth team ain't thrown lots of cash at the problem. I do see why Evatt might have wanted to boost his squad's credibility by retaining players and that all the step up needed was more effort. I think that's close to being disproven, but in a concerning way rather than a knee-jerking way, at the moment. Couple of the right mettle signings in Jan should see us safe.

I also think the notion that we'll just score more than you, playing the beautiful game, isn't a sound one either - sure might work when you're City just buying who you need when you need them, but we're not City. There will be times we do play the beautiful game, but why would anyone think it was the norm? We need to tighten up in defence. There weren't 5 gilt edged chances just going begging v Wigan, nor were there 4 against Plymouth (Sarce's looked a decent one though :-) )

So tighten up at the back please and hope our misfiring at the front (which is also an issue) can grab one or two for a 1-0/2-1 win.

Of course with us being at home, conceding early goal(s) might not endear the luvvies to a restless crowd...
Its a must not lose. And ideally win game. And as you say if we keep perspective we should hopefully be good enough.

I think the thing is we can play football AND tighten up. They aren't mutually exclusive. We're not a long ball side but when people see you talk about tightening up they assume that means changing how we play. We aren't conceding goals because we play out from the back (mainly) we're conceding because we look defensively woeful, usually from very basic set pieces or even out of nowhere - Wigan's first 2 goals were just defensive catastrophes borne out of no pressure at all.

We need to up the tempo and urgency of our play and perhaps that means getting the ball forward more quickly - but I don't think we need to stop playing football. Its a change of mentality off the ball that's key.

User avatar
The_Gun
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 3147
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by The_Gun » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:43 pm

It might be stating the blindingly obvious, but selection/player availability is going to be absolutely crucial.

At the back, Santos coming in to partner Johnston is huge (literally). Just that one addition to the backline significantly strengthens us relative to Tuesday.

As previously mentioned many times, the full backs are the real concern. John seems to be touch and go, so hopefully he's back, otherwise Gordon is our only option on the left. At right back, I really think we need to try Isgrove in there over Brockbank. I like Harry, he seems like a good lad and is 'one of our own' etc, but he's just not up to it at League One level. Izzy has all the attributes to be successful as an attacking right back, so let's roll the dice.

Lee must start alongside MJ if fit, likewise Sarce and Doyle must come back at 10 and 9 respectively. Dapo on the left, and then we've got the right hand side dilemma. My choice would be Sheehan, but Kachunga or Baka are more realistic, and probably not Baka given his performance vs Plymouth.

If we can keep a clean sheet in the first half that will be progress.
Last edited by The_Gun on Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
officer_dibble
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 13819
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:54 pm

I think Isgrove could be a disaster at right back personally. You would shove a Kevin Davies style forward out there to bully him, particularly early doors knowing that our confidence will shatter if we go 1-0 down early on. It’s an option off the bench. If we want shut of Brocky I would play Baptiste there. We need to approach this with the mindset of not conceding first and foremost.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 28435
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:16 pm

They're 19th, two places above the relegation zone. They're three points clear of the dots and three (plus a dozen goals) behind 13th. Pretty definitively lower-mid-table.

They've scored 13 (fourth-bottom; our 20 is now joint-seventh with five other teams, all of whom have played fewer games). They’ve conceded 19, which is mid-table. So they’re better in defence than attack.

Their matches feature fewer overall goals than most (2.29, 5th-bottom - we’re 3.07, 7th), particularly away where their games average dead on 2 goals. They've had more "both teams score" games than most – 9/14 so far, only Ipswich and Charlton have played in 10 – but then again, 14 teams have played in 8+ both-sides-scored games, and like us Gills have played 14 games (19 teams have played 13 or fewer).

Like us, they've had only 2 clean sheets all season; only five teams have had fewer. They've failed to score 3 times - our 7 is the division's joint-worst with Rock-Bottom Doncaster.

They've scored in both halves twice. We've done it 5 times, which only Sunderland (8) can better. What a curious team we are.

The only 15-minute segment in which they score more than the oppo is 16-30 mins. The only two such segments in which we do are either side of HT. At home, it’s just 31-45 minutes for us; away, it’s still 16-30 for them.

While our goals are perfectly split between the halves, theirs are strongly weighted to the first half (61.5%). They also concede slightly more after the break (we concede more before).

Their midweek win – only their second in two months, and only their third all season – over Rock-Bottom Doncaster was a nervy 1-0 in which they had minority possession and fewer efforts on goal. Obvz they’ll be hoping for similar at ours.

(All stats League One only)

Chief threat is Vadaine Oliver, Sheffield-born 6ft2in striker who turns 30 today. Off the back of easily his best season ever (17 goals in 43 – for comparison the previous term he’d scored 4 in 30 while Northampton were promoted from League Two), he’s scored five already this season. Versatile diminutive Scouse forward Danny Lloyd (or Lloyd-McGoldrick) – who turned down a Tranmere extension in the summer, good lad – has weighed in with 3, nobody else scoring more than once.

I’m predicting a Bolton win, possibly from behind - 2-1. Doyler to break his bad run, possibly from the spot, and Dapo with the other.

User avatar
BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 36008
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:07 pm

^^Don't fancy us if they score first. Has to be a clean sheet. Just has to be. Concede none and you take a point at the least which stops the rot. Confidence is low so we need the first goal if there are to be goals.

But by christ this team needs to learn how to stop the other team scoring and Saturday has to be the start of that, full effort and concentration for 90 minutes. All work in the next three days has to be on defensive shape, responsibilities and set pieces. And not just first ball set pieces, second and third especially where I think we basically look awful. Get that right and we'll at least take a point and probably win the game.

User avatar
The_Gun
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 3147
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by The_Gun » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:16 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:54 pm
I think Isgrove could be a disaster at right back personally. You would shove a Kevin Davies style forward out there to bully him, particularly early doors knowing that our confidence will shatter if we go 1-0 down early on. It’s an option off the bench. If we want shut of Brocky I would play Baptiste there. We need to approach this with the mindset of not conceding first and foremost.
Brockbank is a disaster at right back, so we don't have much to lose. Isgrove is quickish, works hard and can defend well enough. If opponents shove a KD style forward out wide they'd also be able to bully Brockbank or Gethin Jones, so I can't see that would be a particular concern about Isgrove.

User avatar
BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 36008
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:40 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:16 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:54 pm
I think Isgrove could be a disaster at right back personally. You would shove a Kevin Davies style forward out there to bully him, particularly early doors knowing that our confidence will shatter if we go 1-0 down early on. It’s an option off the bench. If we want shut of Brocky I would play Baptiste there. We need to approach this with the mindset of not conceding first and foremost.
Brockbank is a disaster at right back, so we don't have much to lose. Isgrove is quickish, works hard and can defend well enough. If opponents shove a KD style forward out wide they'd also be able to bully Brockbank or Gethin Jones, so I can't see that would be a particular concern about Isgrove.
I think we're out of any good option at right back but I'm very unsure on Isgrove there for this game. He's nothing like Jones defensively and I would worry about a striker against him - to my eyes Issy is tiny.

Not sure how we fix right back. You could put Lee there as he's played there before plenty of times but then midfield is weakened.

Brockbank for me is not up to it but I'm far from convinced on Baptiste either.

User avatar
The_Gun
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 3147
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by The_Gun » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:33 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:40 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:16 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:54 pm
I think Isgrove could be a disaster at right back personally. You would shove a Kevin Davies style forward out there to bully him, particularly early doors knowing that our confidence will shatter if we go 1-0 down early on. It’s an option off the bench. If we want shut of Brocky I would play Baptiste there. We need to approach this with the mindset of not conceding first and foremost.
Brockbank is a disaster at right back, so we don't have much to lose. Isgrove is quickish, works hard and can defend well enough. If opponents shove a KD style forward out wide they'd also be able to bully Brockbank or Gethin Jones, so I can't see that would be a particular concern about Isgrove.
I think we're out of any good option at right back but I'm very unsure on Isgrove there for this game. He's nothing like Jones defensively and I would worry about a striker against him - to my eyes Issy is tiny.

Not sure how we fix right back. You could put Lee there as he's played there before plenty of times but then midfield is weakened.

Brockbank for me is not up to it but I'm far from convinced on Baptiste either.
Isgrove is 5'10, which is plenty big enough for a full back - most of the world's top full backs are that height or shorter. But yeah clearly physical stats are not everything, and his lack of experience playing there would be a concern. I can't see that he could be much worse than Brockbank, though, and 36 year old Alex Baptiste wouldn't fill me with confidence either.

User avatar
The_Gun
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 3147
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by The_Gun » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:06 pm

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... illingham/

Well, this isn't good. Evatt's going to have to come up with a workable solution to the right back problem for the next few months now. Maybe reverting to a back three is the answer?

Bertie Wooster
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1158
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:49 am

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by Bertie Wooster » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:38 pm

I suspect that this will be the lowest home league crowd of the season, a game that they simply can't afford to lose to avoid this season completely going downhill. Scoring 1st is so important & the defence need to start defending & stop pissing about passing sideways for 90 mins - defend 1st play 2nd, some of our defending in these last two games has been absolutely amateur / comical.

They need to play with intent, passion & a higher tempo.

User avatar
Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23959
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by Prufrock » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:39 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:40 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:16 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:54 pm
I think Isgrove could be a disaster at right back personally. You would shove a Kevin Davies style forward out there to bully him, particularly early doors knowing that our confidence will shatter if we go 1-0 down early on. It’s an option off the bench. If we want shut of Brocky I would play Baptiste there. We need to approach this with the mindset of not conceding first and foremost.
Brockbank is a disaster at right back, so we don't have much to lose. Isgrove is quickish, works hard and can defend well enough. If opponents shove a KD style forward out wide they'd also be able to bully Brockbank or Gethin Jones, so I can't see that would be a particular concern about Isgrove.
I think we're out of any good option at right back but I'm very unsure on Isgrove there for this game. He's nothing like Jones defensively and I would worry about a striker against him - to my eyes Issy is tiny.

Not sure how we fix right back. You could put Lee there as he's played there before plenty of times but then midfield is weakened.

Brockbank for me is not up to it but I'm far from convinced on Baptiste either.
Isgrove is 5'10, which is plenty big enough for a full back - most of the world's top full backs are that height or shorter. But yeah clearly physical stats are not everything, and his lack of experience playing there would be a concern. I can't see that he could be much worse than Brockbank, though, and 36 year old Alex Baptiste wouldn't fill me with confidence either.
Oh aye, and I'm 6'3" and often mistaken for Daniel Craig :D !!
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 28435
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:54 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:06 pm
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... illingham/

Well, this isn't good. Evatt's going to have to come up with a workable solution to the right back problem for the next few months now. Maybe reverting to a back three is the answer?
Evatt: “There isn’t anything we really can do – we have got what we have got. We have to adapt and overcome. If that means changing shape and formations, we will. We are limited to squad sizes and options so we will figure out the right solutions to win football matches.”

Curious he mentions we're limited to squad sizes and options - didn't we haver two spaces in the registration list? Unless he means wage budget-wise... but if we so strapped that way, bit odd to not register Comley...

Bertie Wooster
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1158
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:49 am

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by Bertie Wooster » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:25 pm

At times I find a lot of what Evatt says very strange, sometimes its as if he's not close to one or two things going on at the club - I'm sure that we have space in the squad for another player (if required) as a replacement for Jones (admittedly not fully fit) but we could actually bring someone in who can play in that RB role, if Markham has identified a few ?

We can't however continue with Brockbank IMO, he wasn't that good in League 2 but for me having watched him live this year & on ifollow last year (and many others agree, even on here) he's simply not good enough in almost every aspect of his game, I'm sure as a local lad he will put 100% in but he's just not good enough and teams will now target him & his confidence must be shot now that he's under greater scrutiny - he could actually maybe benefit from a non league loan similar to a few of the others ?

But Evatt simply can't ignore this long term Jones injury and hope that Brockbank improves, he needs to proactively do something about it. I'll admit that in the main I actually don't think Jones is that good but bloody hell it now shows that we don't have anyone even close or better at RB - another area neglected in the summer by Evatt.

User avatar
Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 32273
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:51 pm

Not sure what Evatt can proactively do, if we're out of RB's and the transfer window is shut?

User avatar
officer_dibble
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 13819
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:56 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:51 pm
Not sure what Evatt can proactively do, if we're out of RB's and the transfer window is shut?
Aye. The free transfers options (who would be way short on fitness) that DSB dug out were all rubbish.

Bertie Wooster
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1158
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:49 am

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by Bertie Wooster » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:09 pm

Ok lets just keep playing Brockbank for the next 3-4 months and do fcuk all - I'd rather bring in an unfit experienced RB than play Brockbank, but then again what do I know, Worthy is obviously far more wise, patient & ITK than I'll ever be.

User avatar
BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 36008
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Kent buy a win, 23/10/21 15:00 Gillingham (h)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:11 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:40 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:16 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:54 pm
I think Isgrove could be a disaster at right back personally. You would shove a Kevin Davies style forward out there to bully him, particularly early doors knowing that our confidence will shatter if we go 1-0 down early on. It’s an option off the bench. If we want shut of Brocky I would play Baptiste there. We need to approach this with the mindset of not conceding first and foremost.
Brockbank is a disaster at right back, so we don't have much to lose. Isgrove is quickish, works hard and can defend well enough. If opponents shove a KD style forward out wide they'd also be able to bully Brockbank or Gethin Jones, so I can't see that would be a particular concern about Isgrove.
I think we're out of any good option at right back but I'm very unsure on Isgrove there for this game. He's nothing like Jones defensively and I would worry about a striker against him - to my eyes Issy is tiny.

Not sure how we fix right back. You could put Lee there as he's played there before plenty of times but then midfield is weakened.

Brockbank for me is not up to it but I'm far from convinced on Baptiste either.
Isgrove is 5'10, which is plenty big enough for a full back - most of the world's top full backs are that height or shorter. But yeah clearly physical stats are not everything, and his lack of experience playing there would be a concern. I can't see that he could be much worse than Brockbank, though, and 36 year old Alex Baptiste wouldn't fill me with confidence either.
There is absolutely no way on gods earth that Lloyd is 5’10. That’s listed online but in FM he’s listed as 5’8 which I can just about believe but I mean you only need to have seen him in the flesh to know he’s pretty damn tiny. Surprisingly so tbh.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 84 guests