Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....EFL Trophy vs Rochdale (Happened Yesterday. What is time anyway?)

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Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....EFL Trophy vs Rochdale (Happened Yesterday. What is time anyway?)

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:41 am

Apologies if we already have a thread for this, I couldn't see it.

I'm still not 100% on the squad rules for the FA Trophy, but presumably resting some of the first team will be made easier by having had to draft in lads like Gordon and Brockbank a lot lately and thus having them as "qualifying players" or whatever it's called.

Dale are bang in mid table in league two and I can't see us going for our strongest 11 (whatever that now is) so it should be competitive.

Would be nice to get any kind of win on the board.

The biggest issue I can see is that we don't seem to have enough players to rest attackers in the way we'd want to. Anyone got any thoughts on how we will line up?
Last edited by GhostoftheBok on Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by Mar » Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:30 am

I would've been confident in saying that we would be seeing the likes of Brockbank, Gordon, Delfouneso etc. But given our current run of form this may be one game where Evatt goes for it to address our winless run.

We need to not lose to keep ourselves in the competition and we're in a good position as it stands so perhaps it'll be a mix of first team and reserves.

I'm expecting Comley, Edwards and Gilks to get game time. Maybe a start for the dyed blonde haired small lad who won the penalty in the last match.

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by The_Gun » Sun Oct 31, 2021 10:35 am

Our squad is so thin right now that we absolutely can’t risk injuries to any key players. Santos, John, MJ, Lee, Isgrove, Dapo and Doyle must not feature, and to be honest shouldn’t be needed.

A win would be nice, but the games we’ve got coming up afterwards are much more important.

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Oct 31, 2021 10:47 am

The_Gun wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 10:35 am
Our squad is so thin right now that we absolutely can’t risk injuries to any key players. Santos, John, MJ, Lee, Isgrove, Dapo and Doyle must not feature, and to be honest shouldn’t be needed.

A win would be nice, but the games we’ve got coming up afterwards are much more important.
Yep got to agree. We are being sucked towards the bottom and cannot risk our key players in this as our squad is so very thin.

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:34 pm

I don't think we have much leeway to rotate. Not because of the FLT rules, which aren't as restrictive as you might think (I'll dig them out again this afternoon), but because we just ain't got the players available. With Jones, Tutte, Bakayoko and Amaechi injured, the 18 players named at Pompey were the only ones we had.

I guess he could switch in the entire bench - Gilks for Dixon, Brocky/Bap/Johnston/Gordon as back four, Sheehan and Tomo into midfield - where he could also pick Comley, who's deregistered for the league but not this cake-and-arse affair. That still leaves us with absolutely no options to rotate the front three - unless we move Isgrove up there, or give the whippet-fast Mitchell Henry a go. Henry came off the bench last time against Liverpool's kids, along with Pettifer, while Conway and Tweedley were also named as subs. But we can't bring in kids wholesale - that's the "devaluing" that the proper-players rules are supposed to avoid, and it's not like we have dozens bursting to play anyway.

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by brommers95 » Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:40 pm

Rather depressingly we're beginning to struggle to put out a side containing four qualifying players without risking key players.

I imagine the side will be something like the below but I'm not even sure if Bakayoko will be fit enough to start. If he's not, then who do you put up front? As ineffectual as he's been in the league do you risk Kachunga, knowing if he gets injured there's basically no winger depth behind him. Delfouneso? Who then plays on the left wing?

Also is it worth risking Sheehan again due to lack of CM depth in case of injury. I wouldn't mind seeing Arran Pettifer be given a start, he showed some good awareness and composure on the ball against Liverpool U21s.

Screenshot 2021-10-31 at 12.35.02.png
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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:19 pm

I can see both arguments (put out your best side to get a win vs rest players), but for me resting as many as possible wins. We absolutely do need a win and our back up lot could easily lose to Rochadale. The trouble is, players will have to rest at some stage and this is the game for it.

One option would be to play Johnston (or a kid, if we have anyone) at left back and move Gordon to left wing, where he has played a bit in non-league. That would give us another option to rest a forward.

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:46 pm

So a few reminders:

v PORT VALE
Gilks; Brocky, Santos, Baptiste, Gordon; Tutte, Thomason; Isgrove (Sarce 67), Delf, Kachunga (Conway 90); Doyle (Dapo 67).
Subs not used: Dixon, Senior, Johnston, Henry
Result: W 3-2 (Doyle, Delfouneso, Afolayan, from 2-0 down)

v LIVERPOOL U21
Gilks; Brocky, Aimson, Baptiste, Gordon; Comley, Thomason, Sheehan (Pettifer 72); Isgrove (Henry 68), Kachunga (Bakayoko 45), Delfouneso
Subs not used: Dixon, Tweedley, Conway
Result: W 4-1 (Delfouneso, Bakayoko 2(1p), og)

GROUP SITUATION
Despite two wins we're not quite technically through. Top two go through but if Dale beat us and Vale put four past Liverpool - as both us and Dale did - then we could go out, depending on whether Liverpool both scoring.

1.BOL73+46pts
2.ROC41+33pts
3.PVL3303pts
4.LIV18−70pts

Places decided by points then GD, then goals scored, then number of (normal time) wins, then record v each other in the group game, then the drawing of lots. So if end up level with Dale they'll be above us (having beaten us), but if we go level with Vale we'll be above them (having beaten them).

RULES
https://www.efl.com/papa-johns-trophy/t ... ion/rules/
7.3 Each EFL Club shall play its Full Available Strength in and during all Matches. Full Available Strength means the EFL Club must include at least four Qualifying Players in the ten outfield Players named in the starting eleven on the Team Sheet.

7.4 Qualifying Player means any Player who:
7.4.1 had started the immediately preceding First Team Fixture (as defined below);
= Isgrove, Aimson, Santos, John, Williams, Lee, Kacha, Dapo, Delf, Doyle

7.4.2 subsequently starts the immediately following First Team Fixture;
Who knows, but it probably won't include any Players not otherwise Qualifying

7.4.3 is in the list of ten Players at the Club with the highest number of starting appearances in First Team Fixtures in the same Season;
adds Johnston and Sheehan, plus possibly Gordon, who's 11th but Sarcevic may now be excluded (or Dixon may be 'cos he's a keeper)

7.4.4 has made forty or more starting appearances in First Team Fixtures or international equivalents (and not limited to the same Club or Season);
adds Gilks (not that keepers count), Baptiste, Comley, Bakayoko and Kachunga

7.4.5 is on standard loan from a Premier League Club or any EFL Club operating a Category One Academy.
N/A

7.5 First Team Fixture means the League Competition, Premier League, EFL Cup or FA Challenge Cup (but shall, in the context of Rules 7.4.3 and 7.4.4 only, also include this Competition).
So that leaves only Tomo, Brocky and possibly Gordon as non-Qualifying Players. I personally would assume that all those three will start - if not now, when? - and Evatt could also give a full debut to Mitchell Henry, partly because it's effectively (but not quite) a dead rubber, partly because we have no real rotation options up front with Baka and Amaechi injured.

If we want to go for maximum rotation:
Gilks; Brockbank*, Baptiste. Johnston, Gordon*?; Comley, Thomason*, Sheehan; Isgrove, Henry, Delf
(izzy and Delf because they were both subbed on Saturday whereas Dapo, Doyle and Kacha played 90).

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:38 am

We've got tomorrow and Sunday Cup games before a Friday match against Crewe in the League. If we intend getting any results we have to bite the bullet and play the best sides we have and not do an Allardice. Given our present situation,( repetitive losses) it isn't as if we have much choice. Every cup game is sudden death and no excuses or returns. We're no different than any other team in as much as they can have injuries just like us, so enough of the large testicles attitude and taking things for granted. Get the strongest side out both cup games and get ahead early. Do that and we can then take the first teamers off and use subs. If we stick with our current run of going behind early despite our "best" side playing, it won't matter what we do as there are no second chances.

Use some savvy Mr Evatt, "Use it or lose it". :oyea: :oyea:
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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by brommers95 » Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:10 pm

I'm sure he's still a few weeks away from making an appearance, but maybe just maybe Amaechi gets a token 15 minutes at the end of the game. Just a thought.

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:19 pm

brommers95 wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:10 pm
I'm sure he's still a few weeks away from making an appearance, but maybe just maybe Amaechi gets a token 15 minutes at the end of the game. Just a thought.
Really doubt it. This was going to be his first week training with the first team – content, download, etc. While you can have a bit more of a wild card up top, I also suggest we'll be risk-averse with his comeback. Imagine if he re-knacks himself in a Sherpa Sideshow game - or is kicked into the stand by a non-league defender on Sunday.

Crewe, maybe, if he's shown enough in training. Not like he's clambering over giants to get in the team.

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:52 pm

Assuming he isn't rested, I'll be keeping an eye out for Aaron Morley.

Bury-born Rochdale centre-mid, DOB 27-2-2000 (ie underage) but experienced for it: he played 44 League One games last season (3 goals, 6 assists) and all 15 this season. Contract is up in summer. Rochdale “fought off” a £150k bid from Shrewsbury in late August but with Dale marooned in mid-table he might want out, and we’d be a good next step.

Aye but what’s in it for us? He seems to be Quite Good. Per WhoScored, he’s 2nd in League 2 (among centre-mids with at least 5 apps) for passes per game (58.4), 4th for accurate long passes (5.1), 5th for accurate short passes (40.3). He’s 2nd for key passes (ie chance-creation) with 2.6 per game. Among the same centre-mids cohort he’s also put in the 2nd most completed crosses per game (2) and the 5th most completed corners (1.4). The fact he only has one assist can be put down to his mates, then. Scored a 94th-minute winner last week v Sutton.

Does the other stuff too: 3rd for interceptions with 1.9 per game, he also attempts 3.1 tackles per game (20th) - only wins 1.9 of them, like (33rd).

Seems a very Evatt sort of signing...

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by brommers95 » Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:09 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:19 pm
brommers95 wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:10 pm
I'm sure he's still a few weeks away from making an appearance, but maybe just maybe Amaechi gets a token 15 minutes at the end of the game. Just a thought.
Really doubt it. This was going to be his first week training with the first team – content, download, etc. While you can have a bit more of a wild card up top, I also suggest we'll be risk-averse with his comeback. Imagine if he re-knacks himself in a Sherpa Sideshow game - or is kicked into the stand by a non-league defender on Sunday.

Crewe, maybe, if he's shown enough in training. Not like he's clambering over giants to get in the team.
Ah cheers, I didn't see that this week is his first back in full team training.

He posted this photo on Instagram on Monday 11th October, so just thought he may have returned to full training last week.


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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:16 pm

Think he’s been On The Grass but not With The Lads.

Evatt quoted last Wed in BN:

“He’s doing well. He’s having to build-up slowly. His attitude and application to his rehab has been first class. He’s very fit. Now it’s just about building it up, building up his sharpness.

“We’ve not had him back in training yet but I think that will probably be the first week in November, and then from that getting him fully up to speed and ready to play again.”

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/19 ... ry-update/

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:43 pm

Nice thread title n'all, but when the hell is the match? Details...details... :(

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:35 pm

brommers95 wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:09 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:19 pm
brommers95 wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:10 pm
I'm sure he's still a few weeks away from making an appearance, but maybe just maybe Amaechi gets a token 15 minutes at the end of the game. Just a thought.
Really doubt it. This was going to be his first week training with the first team – content, download, etc. While you can have a bit more of a wild card up top, I also suggest we'll be risk-averse with his comeback. Imagine if he re-knacks himself in a Sherpa Sideshow game - or is kicked into the stand by a non-league defender on Sunday.

Crewe, maybe, if he's shown enough in training. Not like he's clambering over giants to get in the team.
Ah cheers, I didn't see that this week is his first back in full team training.

He posted this photo on Instagram on Monday 11th October, so just thought he may have returned to full training last week.
Fresh story online:

Hamburg loanee Amaechi trained alongside his team-mates for the first time in a full session on Monday.

“Xav came through training for the first time this morning and looked fine,” he said.

“The signs are good and the way he has conducted himself during rehabilitation has been fantastic. He looks in great condition, a real specimen and an athlete, so we are looking forward to getting him back. At the minute it all looks good.

“He will definitely need to play. He missed a lot of football before he came to us and pre-season he was just about getting up to speed before the injury happened.

“He will need some time and we will need to be patient.

“We are at a stage of the season where we have such limited options that it would be easy to rush him but that is not the right thing to do for him and I am not prepared to take that risk.”

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... am-return/

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:39 pm

Can only be good news that he's back training. We absolutely need to be patient. Hopefully he impresses and we get that loan extension we sought.

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by LeverEnd » Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:35 am

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:39 pm
Can only be good news that he's back training. We absolutely need to be patient. Hopefully he impresses and we get that loan extension we sought.
Patience is definitely required, and not just for the injury. He's played 10 games in the German 2nd division, that's all. He's never played league football in this country. I don't think we should be expecting too much here.
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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:46 am

LeverEnd wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:35 am
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:39 pm
Can only be good news that he's back training. We absolutely need to be patient. Hopefully he impresses and we get that loan extension we sought.
Patience is definitely required, and not just for the injury. He's played 10 games in the German 2nd division, that's all. He's never played league football in this country. I don't think we should be expecting too much here.
This is a worry for me too. In his absence he’s been built up into a saviour. I’m sure he’ll have something and can help us but he won’t be 10/10 for 90 minutes a game. Which winger ever was? But what we need - pace, difference, bravery - maybe he will have enough of that to buck the others up, especially if the forthcoming run of (more) Winnable Fixtures helps their self-belief.

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Re: Over (Keith) Hill and down the 'Dale....FA Trophy vs Rochdale

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:16 pm

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... ns-trophy/

Iles: "A MUCH-CHANGED Wanderers line-up will be sent out at Rochdale tonight... Ian Evatt will switch his squad around at Spotland to give ample opportunity for those not involved at Portsmouth to stake a claim for a starting spot against Stockport County this Sunday in the FA Cup. The likes of Liam Gordon, Matt Gilks, Harry Brockbank, Josh Sheehan, George Thomason and Alex Baptiste are poised to start."

Evatt:
“I want to take this club to Wembley, to win a competition, whether that’s the Papa John’s Trophy, the League Cup or the FA Cup – and right at this moment in time, this one looks the most likely.

"Rochdale are a good team, I have seen a fair bit of them, and they seem well-coached. They play the way Rochdale have played for many years now.

“In my view we have to win – but for us; we want a result for us. We will be going there to rebuild confidence and play with a smile on our face again. Yes, we have done some hard work in this competition and winning two games would probably see us through, but we want to do it by winning all three.”

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