Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

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Which of these players should we try to get rid of in the next window?

Poll ended at Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:31 pm

Alex Baptiste
9
6%
Brandon Comley
22
15%
Ali Crawford
21
14%
Nathan Delfouneso
14
10%
Liam Edwards
14
10%
Liam Gordon
10
7%
Reiss Greenidge
23
16%
Kieran Lee
0
No votes
Dennis Politic
1
1%
George Thomason
2
1%
Andrew Tutte
9
6%
MJ Williams
0
No votes
Will Aimson*
0
No votes
Harry Brockbank*
10
7%
Ronan Darcy*
0
No votes
Eoin Doyle*
1
1%
Lloyd Isgrove*
0
No votes
Gethin Jones*
0
No votes
Elias Kachunga*
9
6%
Josh Sheehan*
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 145

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:59 pm

DJBlu wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:23 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:12 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:37 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:31 am
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:19 am
I'm probably wrong then. Who is missing from the below list?

Jones
John
MJ
Santos
Johnston
Delf
Sheehan
Doyle
Baka
Aimson
Dapo
Tutte
Lee
Brockbank
Isgrove
Kachunga
Edwards
Baptiste
Gordon
Looks right - perhaps Iles' post I saw was Pre Crawford going?

Certainly scope to be getting some in first but I think we still need more than 4.
Yeah long term we need more than four, but even that is a lot for one window. Without wanting to sound too obvious, it's the quality of the additions which matters. Four upgrades on what we have now and I'd wager we'd be pushing for playoffs.
I think we'll need more than 4 and I don't think we're close to top 6 even with good additions. Personally. Lets be realistic we're closer to the bottom 3 right now and the teams at the top are a much larger gap from us quality wise than last season.

Its vital we pick up some points between now and January because its harder to attract the right players at this level if they think its a sinking ship.
Just like January past? Weren't we 20th in League Two at one point?
Well yes in January 2020 we signed 8 players. 4 of whom were huge first team upgrades and in reality all a standard above the league we were in. 1 a backup who scored a goal that effectively sent us up, one an option off the bench for most games and 2 who didn't really work out. Even then it took an unprecedented run to get there.

In January if we sign 8 players and 4 of them are of a standard above league we are in and 2 are able to chip in off the bench and are comfortable at this level then we could do similar. But for me the difference is that its a higher level finding those players is not as easy and the gap between us and the teams at the top in squad depth and quality is greater this time round. Last time round it was a job of recruiting our way out of the failed 3-5-2 system. This time is less obvious and more about adding real quality and physicality to the team. And for the impact to be the same as last time they need to be players ready to deliver here and now. I personally think promotion this season is a pipe dream right now and January would require significant investment to change that.

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by Prufrock » Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:09 pm

Comley, Crawford, Delf, Greenidge, Edwards, Gordon, Tutte and Brocky are the ones I am relatively certain aren't up to top end League 1 even as squad players. I don't think Thomason is either but he doesn't take up a place and hasn't had much of a chance so kept him along with Brocky who I think there's space for as utility 9th defender/cheerleader/good egg.

4 good signings (plus Amaechi staying and contributing) would have us good enough for the top 6 for me. Start of the season showed the quality is there in the XI but we've really struggled for depth and need to replace Sarce.
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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:06 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:03 am
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:49 am
I believe we're allowed to register 22 players excluding keepers and under 21s, and by my count we currently have 19. Move Edwards on and that gives us room to bring in four new signings.

Edit: That would be four new players plus the option of bringing back Politic and Darcy.
Last I heard Iles said one space was left (which would be Comley but wasn't registered) now Sarce has gone that's two. But not sure club want to pay for non registered players so I'd argue its one space plus Comley plus then any new additions....
On squad spaces: on Sept 9 Iles published this
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... quad-list/
BRANDON Comley has been excluded from a squad list submitted by Wanderers to the EFL for the League One campaign. The midfielder, who has not featured for Bolton since December 5, was the notable absentee in a 20-man roster which will be available for league games. Ian Evatt has the option of adding up to three senior players to his squad, with EFL approval...

The Wanderers squad in full: Afolayan, Aimson, Bakayoko, Baptiste, Brockbank, Delfouneso, Doyle, Edwards, Gordon, Isgrove, John, Johnston, Jones, Kachunga, Lee, Santos, Sarcevic, Sheehan, Tutte, Williams.
20-man named roster + "three senior players" = 23, right? I thought it was 22 :conf:

Goalkeepers don't count, nor do players born on or after Jan 1st 2000 - so that's Amaechi, Thomason, Darcy, Politic, Adam Senior, Ryan Colvin, Jay Fitzmartin and Fin Lockett (plus other academy scholars like Henry, Pettifer etc)

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:18 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:06 pm
Goalkeepers don't count, nor do players born on or after Jan 1st 2000
Makes sense of this link we have in the London press to Anthony Hartigan, as he just squeaks in for this season's "no need to register" lot.

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:22 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:18 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:06 pm
Goalkeepers don't count, nor do players born on or after Jan 1st 2000
Makes sense of this link we have in the London press to Anthony Hartigan, as he just squeaks in for this season's "no need to register" lot.
1 goal in his 83 league starts to date. Its one metric - but I'd be hoping we sign players more likely to score than not in attacking midfield areas....

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:37 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:22 pm
1 goal in his 83 league starts to date. Its one metric - but I'd be hoping we sign players more likely to score than not in attacking midfield areas....
He's a deeper-lying, passing midfielder. He played with Sheehan at Newport on loan last season and is doing well in League One this campaign. Also a dead-ball specialist. Not really a player you judge on goals at the minute. He played against us this season, so you've probably seen him.

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:34 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:01 pm
Interesting…my gut is that it should be more bodies in than people out.
I agree, and some of these lads I wouldn't shunt out until we have replacements incoming. It's a difficult balance, but it is after all just a thought experiment.
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:33 pm
January needs to mostly be about adding quality, not getting rid of players we've actually used this season.
What if we've used them and seen they're not up to it?
Prufrock wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:32 pm
Your ideal recruitment is to replace your back-ups with top level and make your current first choice your new back ups. Obviously it never quite works like that.
Agreed, and that has become even more piquant since the early promise dissipated. When all is glowing, it's tempting to imagine it will stay that way forever and that the reserves are equally promising; but when the wind changes it can blow up your skirts and show your embarrassing underwear. There's little point signing someone who's not quite as good as the bloke in the team that's losing all the time.

In the lost below I've been a bit brutal but sometimes we have to be. For all the fanny-panicking I never felt in danger of being in the bottom two last season. This time it's a bottom four and we're hurtling toward it. Still think we've got enough but I also think every window has to build toward longer-term improvement, even if that sometimes means short-term loans to plug gaps.

Long-term improvement means an honest assessment of who's good enough for us. Right now we'd settle for anything with a pulse, but really we want players who are good enough to be comfortable in the third tier, sprinkled with enough class to threaten leaving it via the helicopter pad rather than the garbage chute.

Given a fair wind, I might bid farewell to up to nine of the current squad.

First, the low-hanging fruit:

• I can't quite believe that BRANDON COMLEY is still here, but let's hope for all concerned he isn't in February.

• REISS GREENIDGE is another failed summer 2020 experiment - he's on a season loan anyway so that's presumably that.

• ALI CRAWFORD's loan ends in January, but he's hopeful it will get extended until the end of the season. (“I’m hopeful that it will get extended until the end of the season,” he told the local paper.) He's appeared in 7 of St Johnstone's 8 league games since signing (a groin pull ruled him out of the other). Good luck to him.

Those three weren't registered in our EFL squad anyway. But some were who've added little.

• I wish LIAM EDWARDS all the love and luck in the world, but if he ever does get fit he needs a run in a team, any team. If he can do that in spring we might, maybe, give him another contract. Maybe. But registering him for the second half of the season wouldn't be so much charity as acknowledgement of the total absence of other options.

• ANDREW TUTTE was a surprise contract extension, and I dare say one now regretted. Surgery went well so there's a chance he'll be fit by January, which might make deregistering him more personally awkward, but equally might make him loanable. He's not a bad player and still only 31, so a loan to D4 might be fixable.

• LIAM GORDON is no longer a kid and we need fullbacks/wingbacks we can trust. There's some sort of a player there but I'm not sure it's quite up to the standard Evatt needs. If Ben Jackson's borrowable I'd much rather get him back. Liam can be loaned to D4 or even National League and, again, if he absolutely stars we might think about extending his contract - but really, is he a D3 player? If not, why bother?

Now we're getting down to it...

• NATHAN DELFOUNESO turns 31 on February 2nd. His 2021 has been a wash-out - so far, outside the Sherpa Van Sideshow, he's scored one goal. I'd love him to bag a barrelful before it ends but I doubt it'll happen and I hope we can do better.

• HARRY BROCKBANK will always be warmly regarded by Bolton fans. However, if he is to become a footballer rather than a mascot he might need to recalibrate. That would start with a run in a team somewhere. Only three times has he started more than two successive games: the last three of the 2018/19 relegation season (all three lost to nil); then the start of 2019/20 with the other kids he started six successive games in which we drew one and lost five; then this time last year he'd started eight successive games of which Bolton won just two. He didn't start any of the next eight, of which Bolton won five. I don't hold those runs against him, I'm just saying the poor bloke needs to find his feet in a team not getting arse-plated every week. Maybe a loan to D4 would show the ability we hoped he'd have. For now, we're in danger of breaking him.

• ALEX BAPTISTE. Absolute hero last season but watching Baps at Plymouth, he wasn't so much Maldini as Maladroit – it was honestly difficult to witness. It seems to also have been difficult for his old mate the boss, because for the next game - despite the rumours of squad disharmony, which you'd think would make a manager lean on his trustiest old friends - he dropped Baptiste from the match day 18 for the first time in the league since Harrogate, more than a year ago.

Now, Maldini himself may have struggled in our current defence but I think it's worth noting that Baps has started four league games this season; we've conceded 3, 3, 1 and 3. Perhaps it's Evatt's unconscious homage to a bonkers Bielsa formation but I think it's also quite possible that our boy's race is run.

I can understand why some might say he should stay for the sake of squad harmony, teaching the kids etc and so on. I'm just worried that if he's still our 4th-choice centre-back in February, we might not get much better. Johnston is a ball-playing footballer who's never going to terrify opponents. Too early to tell on Aimson. Santos is very far from our biggest problem. It's also tempting to say centre-back isn't a problem to prioritise right now, but I think fixing it would help.

What I'd like to see is a centre-back who is determined not to concede, and that doesn't have to mean one who can't kick a ball. Chelsea have a rotating back three of ball-playing defenders who all clearly buzz of keeping clean sheets. And while we ain't hiring no Thiago Silvas any time soon, I'm beginning to yearn for a Gerry Taggart type - a battler but not incapable with his feet. Even, to take two very different types, a Colin Hendry or Simon Coleman or a Chris Fairclough – diehard defenders who just got the ball and passed it simply to the nearest player. Not every defender has to be a baby Beckenbauer. And acknowledging that is no more a betrayal of your principles than practising f**king set-pieces, Ian.

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:40 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:34 pm
What if we've used them and seen they're not up to it?
Burn them?

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:50 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:37 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:22 pm
1 goal in his 83 league starts to date. Its one metric - but I'd be hoping we sign players more likely to score than not in attacking midfield areas....
He's a deeper-lying, passing midfielder. He played with Sheehan at Newport on loan last season and is doing well in League One this campaign. Also a dead-ball specialist. Not really a player you judge on goals at the minute. He played against us this season, so you've probably seen him.
A deeper lying passing midfield player. So where does he play in Evatt's system?

Lets not make the same mistake. We play with a holding midfield player who needs to shield the back four and setup plays. MJ does this brilliantly but we need a backup. We then play with 2 numbers 8's who need to cover a huge amount of ground and be box to box. We need players in this role and a number 10.

What we don't need is a deep lying midfield player who might be good on the ball but cannot protect the back four. Our two big problems are physicality in midfield and a lack of goals. Signings that don't fix either - not what we need.

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:53 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:34 pm


• LIAM GORDON is no longer a kid and we need fullbacks/wingbacks we can trust.

• HARRY BROCKBANK will always be warmly regarded by Bolton fans. However, if he is to become a footballer rather than a mascot he might need to recalibrate. That would start with a run in a team somewhere.

Johnston is a ball-playing footballer who's never going to terrify opponents
These are the only ones where I'd have question marks. I think in the case of both Brocky and Gordon it was a case of too many youngsters at once in a back four. I have serious doubts about both of them, but if we persist with them past January I won't complain. With the caveat that we definitely need another specialist right wingback type.

On Johnston, I think he's the most talented of the 3 - but this is his first full season of professional football. If we have brought him in for the long term, which we say we have, then I think we have got to persist with him. He makes individual errors, which I expect from an inexperienced defender. His general play is pretty good.

I agree with you that we need one of the two centre backs to be more aggressive. We are crying out for someone who will attack the ball in the air, rather than do well within 5 yards of themselves. Aimson has a bit more of that to him and it was probably right to take Johnston out for a game or two. Again, though, he's supposed to be the lad we have signed because our coaches can turn him into a top Championship defender. If we believe that then he has got to be playing most weeks. If the coaches no longer believe that, having worked with him in training, then maybe we need to replace Baps - and question the recruitment models.

If Johnston needs to play and Santos is captain, then who do we get in in January that's a much better 4th choice than Baps?

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:58 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:50 pm
What we don't need is a deep lying midfield player who might be good on the ball but cannot protect the back four. Our two big problems are physicality in midfield and a lack of goals. Signings that don't fix either - not what we need.
I'm fairly certain (from memory) that his defensive stats are better than Williams' this season. If your issue with him is that he's 5'10" then that's another matter. He's not shy in the tackle, as we saw against us.

What he would do is upgrade on Tutte and offer us the real option of playing a double pivot, which a lot of people have been saying we need to do at times.

I mean this thread is what would we do and this link is more of an "Evatt looks like he might do this", so it's probably the wrong thread to hash it out; but I can see the appeal of that type. Same goes for someone like Billy Mitchell of Millwall.

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:14 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:53 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:34 pm
• LIAM GORDON is no longer a kid and we need fullbacks/wingbacks we can trust.

• HARRY BROCKBANK will always be warmly regarded by Bolton fans. However, if he is to become a footballer rather than a mascot he might need to recalibrate. That would start with a run in a team somewhere.
These are the only ones where I'd have question marks. I think in the case of both Brocky and Gordon it was a case of too many youngsters at once in a back four. I have serious doubts about both of them, but if we persist with them past January I won't complain. With the caveat that we definitely need another specialist right wingback type.
I agree that they were unwittingly punished by being pushed in simultaneously to a weakened defence but TBH defending is only half the job for an Evatt full-back. Seems to me that neither has the combination of ability and confidence to do much in the opponents' half, and each has a lot to learn defensively, both individually and as part of a unit. Personally I think that, with a little development (not the sort you get flitting in and out of a losing team), each could be a fourth-division full-back. And that's not good enough if we want to stay in this division, let alone be good in it.

As I say, if they went on fourth-tier loans and starred, maybe we could consider extension. But Gordon's 23 in May, Brocky's 24 in September. These aren't promising kids, they're vaguely disappointing adults who need to improve. I don't think they can do that in our Central League team. It's as much about them as us, but obviously "us" is my first priority.

Put it thusly: what happens if Declan John keels over, as he is wont to do, and Gethin has an injury complication or a fresh problem? Answer: we're knackered. And I know you can say that about most positions but full-back/wingback is so crucial to Evatt that I don't think we can risk it again.
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:53 pm
On Johnston, I think he's the most talented of the 3 - but this is his first full season of professional football. If we have brought him in for the long term, which we say we have, then I think we have got to persist with him. He makes individual errors, which I expect from an inexperienced defender. His general play is pretty good.

I agree with you that we need one of the two centre backs to be more aggressive. We are crying out for someone who will attack the ball in the air, rather than do well within 5 yards of themselves. Aimson has a bit more of that to him and it was probably right to take Johnston out for a game or two. Again, though, he's supposed to be the lad we have signed because our coaches can turn him into a top Championship defender. If we believe that then he has got to be playing most weeks. If the coaches no longer believe that, having worked with him in training, then maybe we need to replace Baps - and question the recruitment models.
For clarity, I like Johnston and think he has great potential, second-tier at least, if he continues to develop. I certainly don't want shut of him.

But right now the defence needs solidity (and the attack penetration, but that's not the issue here). Here's another thing to address. Around this time last year our coaches were wise enough to alter the defending of set-pieces to give Santos, who often appeared almost laughably hopeless at man-marking, a free role to attack the ball. All fine. But what happens to the man-marking if the rest of the defence are diddymen? We got away with it a bit last year through Baptiste's experience and oppositional ineptitude but now we've stepped up, the quality of strikers has leapt up. And they don't have to leap up far when everyone's titchy apart from the big lad loafing about without portfolio.

So yeah, IMO we can add Proper Centre-Back to the rest of the shopping list. It's not an easy one. Maybe, hopefully, Aimson can nullify that need between here and January. I can't see Baps doing it.
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:53 pm
If Johnston needs to play and Santos is captain, then who do we get in in January that's a much better 4th choice than Baps?
Tsk. Naming replacements is explicitly outside the remit of this thought experiment.

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:42 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:40 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:34 pm
What if we've used them and seen they're not up to it?
Burn them?
Now we're talking. Proper management.

Comley, Gordon, Greenidge, Tutte, Edwards, Crawford, Brocky, Delf could all have my best wishes at their future Clubs. (Think I've missed someone, but it's quite the list for a January)...

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Doyler go.

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by The_Gun » Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:22 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:42 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:40 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:34 pm
What if we've used them and seen they're not up to it?
Burn them?
Now we're talking. Proper management.

Comley, Gordon, Greenidge, Tutte, Edwards, Crawford, Brocky, Delf could all have my best wishes at their future Clubs. (Think I've missed someone, but it's quite the list for a January)...

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Doyler go.
I would be very surprised to see Doyle go. He’s not firing at the moment, but unless he’s done a Sarce I can’t see him going mid-season.

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:28 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:58 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:50 pm
What we don't need is a deep lying midfield player who might be good on the ball but cannot protect the back four. Our two big problems are physicality in midfield and a lack of goals. Signings that don't fix either - not what we need.
I'm fairly certain (from memory) that his defensive stats are better than Williams' this season. If your issue with him is that he's 5'10" then that's another matter. He's not shy in the tackle, as we saw against us.

What he would do is upgrade on Tutte and offer us the real option of playing a double pivot, which a lot of people have been saying we need to do at times.

I mean this thread is what would we do and this link is more of an "Evatt looks like he might do this", so it's probably the wrong thread to hash it out; but I can see the appeal of that type. Same goes for someone like Billy Mitchell of Millwall.
Tackles again is not a stat that really means much. Can he do the physical job MJ does? If not then as you say maybe we change shape and he plays alongside him. If we do that then it’s absolutely critical we sign a number 10 who is likely to get double figures goals in a season.

The problem is if we make signings that don’t address immediate weaknesses it puts strain on other signings to address those.

For me a player to go with MJ and a number 10 is the ideal but it’s a lot to do.

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:04 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:28 pm
Tackles again is not a stat that really means much. Can he do the physical job MJ does? If not then as you say maybe we change shape and he plays alongside him. If we do that then it’s absolutely critical we sign a number 10 who is likely to get double figures goals in a season.

The problem is if we make signings that don’t address immediate weaknesses it puts strain on other signings to address those.

For me a player to go with MJ and a number 10 is the ideal but it’s a lot to do.
I'll shift this over to the transfers thread.

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by TonyDomingos » Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:08 pm

Comley has been jogged on. Contract cancelled by mutual consent.

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2021/novemb ... rers-stay/
Às armas, às armas!
Sobre a terra, sobre o mar,
Às armas, às armas!
Pela Pátria lutar!
Contra os canhões marchar, marchar!

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:16 pm

TonyDomingos wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:08 pm
Comley has been jogged on. Contract cancelled by mutual consent.

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2021/novemb ... rers-stay/
Which means we've paid him to shift.

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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by Prufrock » Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:23 pm

But less than we would have to stay for the whole contract.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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GhostoftheBok
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Re: Who should we jog on in January? (2022 version)

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:27 pm

Best for all parties. He isn't so awful he can't do a job in another side down the leagues and we have no use for him.

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