Charity Legends Game

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Jim_McDonuts
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Re: Charity Legends Game

Post by Jim_McDonuts » Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:00 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:17 pm


The tail end of his first season here Jay Jay was in my view and I will defend it to my grave, the best midfield player in the world.

He was absolutely outstanding. That period is the best I’ve ever seen from a Bolton player.
Maybe worth adding that, for me, up until xmas he was dreadful - too slow, got bullied off the ball, wasteful etc. But then...

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Re: Charity Legends Game

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:41 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:14 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:57 am
People say they want a brand of football but they only really mean it if its winning football. And rightly so.
I mostly agree. People 100% want to see their side win more than anything else. I know fans who say they'd rather lose playing beautiful football than win parking the bus, but I've seen those same guys having fits about losses when their side has played well.

At the same time, when you compare systems that are working to their maximum I'd much watch an Evatt side than a Parky one.

I'm a fan who loves seeing a midfield enforcer or a no-nonsense centre back kick lumps out of players. I love a proper ding dong battle on the pitch between two committed teams. I think you can have that and play beautiful football. I also think that modern match analytics really matter in terms of gaining the edge in the war of fine margins.

I don't really mind what kind of football we play, so long as it is well coached and we have a committed group of players; but I do like what Evatt is doing, on the whole. We just need to support him in January with good recruitment so he has the tools he needs for different games, at which point issues with tempo in certain shapes and against low blocks should be far less pronounced.
I'd rather watch a combination of the strengths of both sides. Because I fear we go down a rabbit hole of pretending that you can't be a good team and win in a variety of ways.

Parky in his first 6 months also produced some of the most exciting counter-punching football we've had in a long time with Clough and Ameobi flanking Madine - it was absolutely belting stuff in some games. But it faded when he lost players like the aforementioned Clough and Ameobi and we became considerably more agricultural. I'm not claiming he was ever expansive as a manager BUT there are times we'd do better if Evatt drilled the side to be more difficult to score against and we nicked one off a set piece. I think virtually every side I've seen win the premiership has been able to do that - and its definitely something we need to add this season - last season we did have that ability.

I don't believe you can ever play one way and one way only in English football. I've not seen any team ever do that. Man City are the closest and arguably only side who are all one thing - but even they in their various title wins have had games they've ended up nicking on the counter or via a set piece. Even under Guardiola. Doesn't happen often. And its not his way but still.

In league one I think you need to be adaptable because teams come and pose different problems and we're dealing with a group of league one players not Messi and Silva at their finest. So all the theory re low block this and that goes out the window when a side sits in and you need a simple and repetitive way to ask them questions.

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Re: Charity Legends Game

Post by GhostoftheBok » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:32 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:41 pm
In league one I think you need to be adaptable because teams come and pose different problems and we're dealing with a group of league one players not Messi and Silva at their finest. So all the theory re low block this and that goes out the window when a side sits in and you need a simple and repetitive way to ask them questions.
In defence of Evatt I think we lack the tools a bit more than the ideas.

The low block is the side sitting in, as in your example of where we need a simple and repetitive way to break a side down. We have that - it worked vs Crewe. We played wide against their block and got into the box time and again - we lacked quality with the final ball and finish, but we got in.

Second half we step up the tempo with the midfield switch and got a mistake from them, then we got in down the flanks again and scored. It was the switch in midfield that was key.

I think we miss the tools to play two deeper mids against lesser sides who stand off us, but we played it as we were on a bad run and wanted stability. If we want to use it going forward we need someone who can carry the ball from deep. Williams isn't mobile enough and Sheehan doesn't have the physicality to brush past players. It's something we need to be able to do in some games and we'll need to find a suitable mid for it at some stage. In Evatt's 3-at-the-back you'd look to an overlapping centre back to give you that drive, but in a 4 it's down to the midfielders.

Likewise, we know Doyle can't stretch teams at this level. We spoke about it in the summer. That means teams can step up on us and compact the midfield without fear of us going over them. There's no point playing on the counter if your fastest player is Dapo, who is fairly plodding for a winger. If we can add raw pace and stretch sides then we can both play more on the counter and also earn ourselves space in midfield.

I think Evatt has adapted his style of play quite well to the tools he has. He's changed formation, altered his midfield, altered the roles of his wingers and radically changed how his striker(s) works. He's been extremely pragmatic and it has mostly worked for us. He even changed his midfield to give us more stability, but people didn't like that much.

I still think that if we can get 2-3 proper players (with the right attributes) in in January we will be a different animal; but lack of depth might elsewhere kill us. if we could get 4-5 I'd be thrilled, but we'd need to let some go. There are various ways we could fill the gaps in this squad, but I think Evatt's approach is fundamentally fine. Pace in attack, driving force in midfield and a right back would be a lovely start. If he can find a midfield goal threat in there (possibly by using Sheehan was he was at the start of the season) we are off to the races.

Needs to get a set piece coach in, though; because some of those routines....yikes.

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Re: Charity Legends Game

Post by Mar » Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:02 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:32 pm
Needs to get a set piece coach in, though; because some of those routines....yikes.
I did find it slightly entertaining that Evatt scored from a set piece on the weekend when the first team rarely do.

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Re: Charity Legends Game

Post by GhostoftheBok » Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:55 pm

Mar wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:02 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:32 pm
Needs to get a set piece coach in, though; because some of those routines....yikes.
I did find it slightly entertaining that Evatt scored from a set piece on the weekend when the first team rarely do.
Not quite as good as Adam Senior deciding to show his ability against a 48-year-old Jay-Jay and ending up on his arse, but still amusing I agree.

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Re: Charity Legends Game

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:56 pm

Really good to see all the positive endearments from the Legends ex Wanderers players.
Ricky Gardener is the latest, says Bolton treated him like a son, but everyone from Sam Allardyce down has good words for our club. :pray:
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

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Re: Charity Legends Game

Post by DJBlu » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:03 pm

Mar wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:02 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:32 pm
Needs to get a set piece coach in, though; because some of those routines....yikes.
I did find it slightly entertaining that Evatt scored from a set piece on the weekend when the first team rarely do.
Had the chance to score a perfect hat trick but knocked the 3rd in with his right peg.

Amateur stuff.

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Re: Charity Legends Game

Post by Prufrock » Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:09 am

Over £100k raised. Superb.

On a (related) tangent, it's an absolute travesty that there has been no rugby league knighthood ever, but it has to be a matter of time before it's Sir Kevin Sinfield. What a man.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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Re: Charity Legends Game

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:10 am

Prufrock wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:09 am
Over £100k raised. Superb.

On a (related) tangent, it's an absolute travesty that there has been no rugby league knighthood ever, but it has to be a matter of time before it's Sir Kevin Sinfield. What a man.
Don't think there been too many, in any sort of rugby, actually for rugby. Woodward got one for World Cup win, no players though...the ex Union players who've been bestowed, the dub wasn't in most cases for "Rugby"

Hopefully Sinfield is recognised for what he's done. Immense (and very humbling)

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