Charity Legends Game

[Worthy4England]

The "modern game" will shit itself to death if it couldn't accommodate an "Okocha." Not everything can be distilled into a very imperfect formula!

[GhostoftheBok]

The "modern game" will shit itself to death if it couldn't accommodate an "Okocha." Not everything can be distilled into a very imperfect formula!

Sam gave him a set of rules to follow, if you remember. He was allowed to occasionally deviate from the "no long shots" rule, but Sam still tried to reign in his exuberance. Nolan used to do jokes about it, "We get fined if we shoot from too far out, but I scored so he might let me off. Might ask Jay-Jay for one of his get out of jail free cards."

I remember being in the Reebok and Okocha did a flick pass to someone which had Sam going ballistic at him for not just playing a simple ball.

Okocha was inefficient and a bloody joy.

[TANGODANCER]

Watching some of the clips on social media, I can't express how much I want an Okocha at the club again.

There'll never be another Jay-Jay Okocha. He was a one off magician and we were the lucky ones to have him. We've had many grear players, but only one Jay-Jay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyOHbCBApus

[GhostoftheBok]

There'll never be another Jay-Jay Okocha. He was a one off magician and we were the lucky ones to have him. We've had many grear players, but only one Jay-Jay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyOHbCBApus

I would happily take BTEC Okocha at this level.

Evatt's most convincing side was that Barrow team he took up, where Rooney had licence to be unpredictable. Now Rooney is nothing like an Okocha, but Evatt's brand of football can accommodate a maverick #10 who can change tempo and angles at will.

I know we'll never see another Jay-Jay, I just miss that feeling of watching pure joy on a football pitch.

[Worthy4England]

The "modern game" will shit itself to death if it couldn't accommodate an "Okocha." Not everything can be distilled into a very imperfect formula!

Sam gave him a set of rules to follow, if you remember. He was allowed to occasionally deviate from the "no long shots" rule, but Sam still tried to reign in his exuberance. Nolan used to do jokes about it, "We get fined if we shoot from too far out, but I scored so he might let me off. Might ask Jay-Jay for one of his get out of jail free cards."

I remember being in the Reebok and Okocha did a flick pass to someone which had Sam going ballistic at him for not just playing a simple ball.

Okocha was inefficient and a bloody joy.

Yes, of course I remember, although I thought the long shot thing was general, rather than Okocha specific. But Sam had the wherewithal to see that the benefit of Okocha outweighed whatever "inefficiences" were being measured.

[GhostoftheBok]

Yes, of course I remember, although I thought the long shot thing was general, rather than Okocha specific. But Sam had the wherewithal to see that the benefit of Okocha outweighed whatever "inefficiences" were being measured.

The raw entertainment value mollified a lot of the people who hated Sam's brand of football, so in that sense Okocha's flair was of a real benefit to him.

In modern terms, Evattball probably needs an Eze sort of player. Just like there were a lot of Bolton fans who hated Sam's "hoofball" but accepted that it won games, there are some fans who look at Evatt's side and see "tippy tappy crap".....in both cases flair keeps people happy and entertained.

[Worthy4England]

Yes, of course I remember, although I thought the long shot thing was general, rather than Okocha specific. But Sam had the wherewithal to see that the benefit of Okocha outweighed whatever "inefficiences" were being measured.

The raw entertainment value mollified a lot of the people who hated Sam's brand of football, so in that sense Okocha's flair was of a real benefit to him.

In modern terms, Evattball probably needs an Eze sort of player. Just like there were a lot of Bolton fans who hated Sam's "hoofball" but accepted that it won games, there are some fans who look at Evatt's side and see "tippy tappy crap".....in both cases flair keeps people happy and entertained.

I can do hoofball or tippy tippy crap, as long as it comes with three points (whilst understanding that won't be every week). Someone doing 39 step overs whilst we lose 2-0 isn't impressing me any time soon.

[GhostoftheBok]

I can do hoofball or tippy tippy crap, as long as it comes with three points (whilst understanding that won't be every week). Someone doing 39 step overs whilst we lose 2-0 isn't impressing me any time soon.

So no to BTEC Chris Eagles then?

[Worthy4England]

I can do hoofball or tippy tippy crap, as long as it comes with three points (whilst understanding that won't be every week). Someone doing 39 step overs whilst we lose 2-0 isn't impressing me any time soon.

So no to BTEC Chris Eagles then?

Well, depends if we won or not.

[BWFC_Insane]

Watching some of the clips on social media, I can't express how much I want an Okocha at the club again.

I really, really like the current squad. We can debate the various qualities and deficiencies of each player, but they're a thoroughly likeable bunch of players. I miss raw flair, though. Dapo is great and he can find a lovely pass, beat a man and stick it in the top bins from 30 yards; but I want a born entertainer. It's not the way of the modern game and I get that, but I also don't care.

Watching Jay-Jay in a White shirt was a privilege that I want more of. My brain is well aware that it's not what the system needs to work better, but my heart wants a #10 who will do stepovers and flicks with a smile on his face.

The tail end of his first season here Jay Jay was in my view and I will defend it to my grave, the best midfield player in the world.

He was absolutely outstanding. That period is the best I’ve ever seen from a Bolton player.

I’d say overall across his period Youri was the better player. But for those few months having the best midfield player on the planet at Bolton was absolutely special.

And if having that quality is not modern football then….actually I think it’s nonsense I just think there are fewer players that stand out like that for lots of reasons.

[BWFC_Insane]

Yes, of course I remember, although I thought the long shot thing was general, rather than Okocha specific. But Sam had the wherewithal to see that the benefit of Okocha outweighed whatever "inefficiences" were being measured.

The raw entertainment value mollified a lot of the people who hated Sam's brand of football, so in that sense Okocha's flair was of a real benefit to him.

In modern terms, Evattball probably needs an Eze sort of player. Just like there were a lot of Bolton fans who hated Sam's "hoofball" but accepted that it won games, there are some fans who look at Evatt's side and see "tippy tappy crap".....in both cases flair keeps people happy and entertained.

You are talking about the best Bolton side that has ever been assembled. About three fans were unhappy and they would be unhappy watching any team.

The only time the football was really questioned by Bolton fans was during the last season when in hindsight it was clear Sam was marking time.

[officer_dibble]

What was the game where Jay Jay and Youri played a one two across half the pitch? Magnificent footballers.

[GhostoftheBok]

You are talking about the best Bolton side that has ever been assembled. About three fans were unhappy and they would be unhappy watching any team.

That's the point. People absolutely were happy watching the team, but complaints about the football were constantly there throughout Sam's reign. "We'd be better if we didn't hoof it over midfield" etc

It was a lot more than "three fans" who used to moan about the football. And it would have been a lot more than a lot more than 3 if we'd not had a set of players who were naturally entertaining.

The accusations of Sam just playing hoofball are as ridiculous as accusations that Evatt's team play "tippy tappy crap", but the boo boys are always there and two things shut them up: Wins and brilliant individual players. Amazingly those two are sometimes related.

[BWFC_Insane]

You are talking about the best Bolton side that has ever been assembled. About three fans were unhappy and they would be unhappy watching any team.

That's the point. People absolutely were happy watching the team, but complaints about the football were constantly there throughout Sam's reign. "We'd be better if we didn't hoof it over midfield" etc

It was a lot more than "three fans" who used to moan about the football. And it would have been a lot more than a lot more than 3 if we'd not had a set of players who were naturally entertaining.

The accusations of Sam just playing hoofball are as ridiculous as accusations that Evatt's team play "tippy tappy crap", but the boo boys are always there and two things shut them up: Wins and brilliant individual players. Amazingly those two are sometimes related.

In my experience nobody was moaning about the football until the last season.

I mean sure you always have the odd person online. I didn’t see it but I’m sure they were there. But in the ground and at away games I didn’t hear anyone complaining.

[GhostoftheBok]

In my experience nobody was moaning about the football until the last season.

I mean sure you always have the odd person online. I didn’t see it but I’m sure they were there. But in the ground and at away games I didn’t hear anyone complaining.

Water under the bridge now, but I used to sit in the West Lower at that point and if we weren't winning at half time the concourse was always full of folk moaning about bypassing the midfielders - regardless of what was actually happening on the pitch.

Away games were different. At that point it was all roses. None of the scrapping we saw under Owen when sections started turning on him. That's really the only time I've known our away support be anything other than excellent.

[Worthy4England]

In my experience nobody was moaning about the football until the last season.

I mean sure you always have the odd person online. I didn’t see it but I’m sure they were there. But in the ground and at away games I didn’t hear anyone complaining.

Water under the bridge now, but I used to sit in the West Lower at that point and if we weren't winning at half time the concourse was always full of folk moaning about bypassing the midfielders - regardless of what was actually happening on the pitch.

Away games were different. At that point it was all roses. None of the scrapping we saw under Owen when sections started turning on him. That's really the only time I've known our away support be anything other than excellent.

That's sorta the point, we've been making on the other thread. I think you could share all the data in the world, but many will still look at a game like Friday night and do a different "calculation" (home + bottom team + missed chances + dominance = 0-0 = not good enough)...they actually don't care much that the double pivots operating more efficiently (or that we've won 85% of knockdown from Super Kev)

[GhostoftheBok]

That's sorta the point, we've been making on the other thread. I think you could share all the data in the world, but many will still look at a game like Friday night and do a different "calculation" (home + bottom team + missed chances + dominance = 0-0 = not good enough)...they actually don't care much that the double pivots operating more efficiently (or that we've won 85% of knockdown from Super Kev)

It's not about good enough vs not good enough. It's also not about people wanting to see more, or feeling we should be doing better.

Booing your own team at half time shouldn't be a response to things not being 100% right on the pitch, it shouldn't happen unless things are seriously, seriously wrong.

The lads booing that display are not the ones making reasonable points about what we should be doing better, it's the "We're Bolton, we should be winning every game in League One" crowd and those blokes who go to the match to make themselves the centre of attention for 90 minutes.

People can watch that 45 minutes and want better. Anyone booing that display needs to give their head a wobble.

Honestly, sod 'em. It's like a child having a tantrum.

[Worthy4England]

That's your view (also mine) - but others clearly have a different view. I suspect for them, it's about "good enough 45" vs "not good enough 45" the fact that you or I don't necessarily agree isn't consequential.

[BWFC_Insane]

That's sorta the point, we've been making on the other thread. I think you could share all the data in the world, but many will still look at a game like Friday night and do a different "calculation" (home + bottom team + missed chances + dominance = 0-0 = not good enough)...they actually don't care much that the double pivots operating more efficiently (or that we've won 85% of knockdown from Super Kev)

It's not about good enough vs not good enough. It's also not about people wanting to see more, or feeling we should be doing better.

Booing your own team at half time shouldn't be a response to things not being 100% right on the pitch, it shouldn't happen unless things are seriously, seriously wrong.

The lads booing that display are not the ones making reasonable points about what we should be doing better, it's the "We're Bolton, we should be winning every game in League One" crowd and those blokes who go to the match to make themselves the centre of attention for 90 minutes.

People can watch that 45 minutes and want better. Anyone booing that display needs to give their head a wobble.

Honestly, sod 'em. It's like a child having a tantrum.

I'm not sure in any event what booing achieves.

But if you're playing a hapless Crewe and passing sideways and backwards and have the manager bellowing at you in anger its not that surprising that some chose to boo.

I'm not convinced that the entertainment factor is all that high with Evattball especially when we're not pressing well and look lethargic. Its frankly dull stuff - and I suspect the same goes for all styles of football. If you aren't playing well however you choose to play it won't be met with excitement from fans.

People say they want a brand of football but they only really mean it if its winning football. And rightly so.

[GhostoftheBok]

People say they want a brand of football but they only really mean it if its winning football. And rightly so.

I mostly agree. People 100% want to see their side win more than anything else. I know fans who say they'd rather lose playing beautiful football than win parking the bus, but I've seen those same guys having fits about losses when their side has played well.

At the same time, when you compare systems that are working to their maximum I'd much watch an Evatt side than a Parky one.

I'm a fan who loves seeing a midfield enforcer or a no-nonsense centre back kick lumps out of players. I love a proper ding dong battle on the pitch between two committed teams. I think you can have that and play beautiful football. I also think that modern match analytics really matter in terms of gaining the edge in the war of fine margins.

I don't really mind what kind of football we play, so long as it is well coached and we have a committed group of players; but I do like what Evatt is doing, on the whole. We just need to support him in January with good recruitment so he has the tools he needs for different games, at which point issues with tempo in certain shapes and against low blocks should be far less pronounced.