Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:47 am

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:28 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:03 pm
Still looks more like a trip than violent conduct, which it'd have to be for red (there).
You're missing the third, which having seen the video it must be, which is "serious foul play". It's the reason a two-footer (/high tackle etc) is a red, and different to violent conduct which is the handbags "he's hit him in the face" one.

The wording of that had changed (we've had reckless v dangerous fairly recently) but I think the current wording is "endangering an opponent". I think he's *tried* to do the cynical trip him, but accidentally raked him down the back of the calf. I have very little sympathy for those. Loads of them are dangerous and I think you take your chances. 9/10 you trip them and it's a booking. The 1/10 you go scraping down the back of the calf or achilles, tough shit it's a red.
Fair point, but I still don't think he's endangering an opponent. It's just a sh!t trip. Put it this way, if it were our player I'd be demanding an appeal.

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:37 am
What happened when Izzy went off? Assume Johnstone into midfield with Lee and Tommo, Dapo left and Kachunga right? (Assuming Kachunga started left with Izzy right).
Yes. Johnstone's presence and Donny's relative lack of ambition gave Tomo and Lee more licence to get forward. I think Kachunga started at 10 with Dapo left but they interchanged a lot.

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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:59 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:10 am
A 'problem' I noticed is that he [Amaechi] wants the ball played into areas where he can run onto it, whereas we seem to feel the need to play it in to feet. I hope we see a case of other players realising this and acting accordingly, rather than have Amaechi 'dumb down' as it were.
Yeah, I noticed once incident almost straight away, and mentioned it in passing. Santos received the ball in his channel, coming forward, five yards short of the halfway line. Amaechi immediately burst into one of those bent-to-beat-the-flag runs. Xav was maybe 30/40 yards in front of big Reekz - not necessarily an easy pass, but certainly within his scope - it's no longer than the crossfield sweeps he and Aimson regularly perform, and doesn't even have to be as accurate because you're playing it in the gap behind the defenders, rather than asking a Dapo or Kachunga to control it on their chest.

Santos saw him, I think; but he chose not to make the pass. It would, I think, be a new pattern of play and one that Evatt should introduce. I'm not advocating we become a team that habitually "bangs it in behind" but doing so a couple of times usually makes defenders drop deep, giving you more space to play. And if the lad collects the ball and whacks it in the onion bag, we'd accept that, right?

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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:01 am

I thought we'd win that one and I'm delighted we did. My take on it was that it was a good game for Izzy at right back, as he could step inside, but putting Gordon there was a good move from Evatt. He was a bit shaky when they got at him in the first 20 minutes, but Kachunga helped him out and once he grew into it he was excellent.

Kachunga clear man of the match for me, but then I think he's been one of our best players for a good while now. Hardest worker I've seen in a White shirt in years, creative, good movement and always willing to take the ball. I think Evatt has picked one out there.

Generally just proud of the lot of them. I'm gutted for Izzy and it's a mess that Dapo got a yellow for being fouled by their guy, but Johnston came in and did well and Ameachi looks ready.

I think the injury and suspension make the next one more difficult, but if everyone stays fit until the weekend we will win that one too. They're much better side than Donny, but it won't matter. 4 on the bench is a terrifying thought, though.

We saw both sides of "Captain Santos" today. Got stuck in when Dapo was studded (and it was a red card in the modern game) and when Thommo scored he was all smiles and making sure everyone came in and celebrated with him. First time he's looked the part.

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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:25 am

Donny boss Richie Wellens thinks they should have been 3-0 up before we scored (and Doyle was offside).

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/19 ... rs-defeat/

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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by Prufrock » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:33 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:47 am
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:28 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:03 pm
Still looks more like a trip than violent conduct, which it'd have to be for red (there).
You're missing the third, which having seen the video it must be, which is "serious foul play". It's the reason a two-footer (/high tackle etc) is a red, and different to violent conduct which is the handbags "he's hit him in the face" one.

The wording of that had changed (we've had reckless v dangerous fairly recently) but I think the current wording is "endangering an opponent". I think he's *tried* to do the cynical trip him, but accidentally raked him down the back of the calf. I have very little sympathy for those. Loads of them are dangerous and I think you take your chances. 9/10 you trip them and it's a booking. The 1/10 you go scraping down the back of the calf or achilles, tough shit it's a red.
Fair point, but I still don't think he's endangering an opponent. It's just a sh!t trip. Put it this way, if it were our player I'd be demanding an appeal.

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:37 am
What happened when Izzy went off? Assume Johnstone into midfield with Lee and Tommo, Dapo left and Kachunga right? (Assuming Kachunga started left with Izzy right).
Yes. Johnstone's presence and Donny's relative lack of ambition gave Tomo and Lee more licence to get forward. I think Kachunga started at 10 with Dapo left but they interchanged a lot.
I think it's one of those you see not given. And I'd be annoyed if it was given against us but for that reason I think, that you see others get away with it. I still think that sort of challenge *should* and is a red as things stand though. No chance or attempt at winning the ball, and if you catch the achilles that can be a horrible, horrible injury.

Listened to that Wellens interview last night laughing my head off. Loves a moan, that lad :lol:
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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:36 am

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:33 am
I think it's one of those you see not given. And I'd be annoyed if it was given against us but for that reason I think, that you see others get away with it. I still think that sort of challenge *should* and is a red as things stand though. No chance or attempt at winning the ball, and if you catch the achilles that can be a horrible, horrible injury.
The people saying that you'd have sending offs every game if it was a red are talking bollocks.

It was studs up, into his achilles with no attempt to play the ball. It's just a red.

You see lads go in and hook at legs all the time to bring down a runner and it's a smart foul....that's a yellow.

Driving your studs into a player intentionally is a red card and has been for a long time.

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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:38 am

Just read Their manager's view on the game. No bother, he's just playing the aggrieved "Rudyard Kipling" (If) loser role. We know it well. ( Street version "If my auntie Fanny had had a pair of balls she'd have been my uncle Tommy" etc.)

Tommy Edwards made a record way back,"All in the game" and that's how it goes. It's a big, bad world out there... :wink:
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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by KeyserSoze » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:25 am

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:36 am
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:33 am
I think it's one of those you see not given. And I'd be annoyed if it was given against us but for that reason I think, that you see others get away with it. I still think that sort of challenge *should* and is a red as things stand though. No chance or attempt at winning the ball, and if you catch the achilles that can be a horrible, horrible injury.
The people saying that you'd have sending offs every game if it was a red are talking bollocks.

It was studs up, into his achilles with no attempt to play the ball. It's just a red.

You see lads go in and hook at legs all the time to bring down a runner and it's a smart foul....that's a yellow.

Driving your studs into a player intentionally is a red card and has been for a long time.
It looked remarkably similar to the professional foul option they used to allow you to make on long-defunct game franchise This is Football :D
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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:26 am

https://mobile.twitter.com/bwfcbwfc/sta ... 0772825092
Watched it loads of times now and I still think it's more of a leg-up than a stud-rake. Dude swings his leg round from the side, actually misses Dapo's right leg 'cos he's too slow, then lifts up his leg to try to get the left and achieves it. I've seen may a stud-rake and you don't come in from the side or flick upwards. I would be livid if our player got a red and a ban for that – under the current rules: clearly it's twattish.
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Anyways, balls to him and them.

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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by boltonboris » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:33 am

Well, that was loverly, that! 1 hairy moment with that incredible miss of theirs, but then completely dominated thereafter - Not always so easy against 10 men as Sunderland will testify after going a goal up against Shrewsbury who then had a man sent off. That finished 1-1

The 3rd goal was stunning. Fully 30 passes in the build up to that

Only negatives were Isgrove's injury and Afolayan's booking, which was inexplicable! Good individual performances and some great team play on the ball and hunting when they had it.
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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by boltonboris » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:35 am

Re: Red Card - No intention of playing the ball an always chance of a serious injury, so he can't have any complaints - Put it down as an Orange Card & 15 minutes in the sin bin for when I finally have my way

Edit: Oh and it was great to see our players get around the ref and opposition, perhaps influencing his decision. More of that please! We don't do it nearly enough
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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:39 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:26 am
I would be livid if our player got a red and a ban for that
I'm mostly livid that our player got banned for literally nothing.

I don't think their lad has tried to hurt Dapo, but when you stud a lad in the Achilles and your intent is the man not the ball you are going off. I think with VAR he goes and if they appeal it it'll be thrown out; but we may find out I'm wrong.

As you say, sod 'em.

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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:06 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:39 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:26 am
I would be livid if our player got a red and a ban for that
I'm mostly livid that our player got banned for literally nothing.

I don't think their lad has tried to hurt Dapo, but when you stud a lad in the Achilles and your intent is the man not the ball you are going off. I think with VAR he goes and if they appeal it it'll be thrown out; but we may find out I'm wrong.

As you say, sod 'em.
If the ref gave a yellow VAR wouldn’t change the decision. I’m seriously unconvinced that’s a red card really and we will see a challenge like that Saturday guaranteed and it’s be a yellow.

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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:12 pm

Cheltenham shifted to a 3 at the back from their 4 and their results have improved a lot since then. Ordinarily Evatt would change his team to respond, but there's not a huge amount for him to do.

We'll have two proper strikers to worry about and wingbacks who can run.

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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:16 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:06 pm
If the ref gave a yellow VAR wouldn’t change the decision. I’m seriously unconvinced that’s a red card really and we will see a challenge like that Saturday guaranteed and it’s be a yellow.
You will 100% see those at yellows in the lower leagues, but also regularly as reds.

We have seen plenty of reds through VAR where the still of the tackle being studs up make it an easy red for the ref. Ex-Pros then sit on MotD and talk about how slow motion and stills make it look bad and the game has gone, but the refs have the rules right.

It doesn't mean you have to like it, but he didn't play the ball and he was studs up at point of contact. It's an easy red.

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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:30 pm

First watch looked like a cynical trip and a yellow, but his foot is quite high so can see why the red came out. Going with Boris' orange.
Also, I think if Dapo had jumped up and our players hadn't piled in, it might've been yellow. Which I'm fine with 😁
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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:31 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:12 pm
Cheltenham shifted to a 3 at the back from their 4 and their results have improved a lot since then. Ordinarily Evatt would change his team to respond, but there's not a huge amount for him to do.

We'll have two proper strikers to worry about and wingbacks who can run.
Long passes from Santos aimson and thomason might be the order of the day then. Pick out ameachi and kachunga running into the space. Aimson hit some good ones last night.
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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:53 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:31 pm
Long passes from Santos aimson and thomason might be the order of the day then. Pick out ameachi and kachunga running into the space. Aimson hit some good ones last night.
Marcy Marc of the BN is suggesting Amaechi isn't fit to start yet and Aimson is being managed through his physical issues.

Makes life more challenging.

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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:55 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:12 pm
Cheltenham shifted to a 3 at the back from their 4 and their results have improved a lot since then. Ordinarily Evatt would change his team to respond, but there's not a huge amount for him to do.

We'll have two proper strikers to worry about and wingbacks who can run.
With Johnston playing we’ll arguably be quite able to shift to a 3 at the back out of possession anyway. Think it will be a lot tougher on sat - at the moment with injuries how they are a points not the end of the world.

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Re: Exchanging Corn...V Doncaster at home, 23/11/21 8 'O clock.

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:55 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:25 am
Donny boss Richie Wellens thinks they should have been 3-0 up before we scored (and Doyle was offside).

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/19 ... rs-defeat/
He's certainly correct they should probably have been at least one to the good. When you "still" the Doyle goal and draw pretty lines across it, it's a really close call (not saying my line drawing is good enough to declare a "winner"
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