Who do you believe?

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Gudnib
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Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:29 am

In a revealing interview with Cowgill’s Jason Elliott, posted on YouTube this week, Sharon Brittan said, "Eddie Davies, God bless his soul, was an incredible man” and "an amazing person to have at this club".

On the other hand in his book, Sam Allardyce had little to say about Eddie Davies except that the man who made BSA into a multi-millionaire and kept BWFC afloat for the last nineteen years of his life was 'a ruthless businessman'.

Who do you believe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FlJSDo7K_A&t=1988s

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Mar » Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:21 pm

Gudnib wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:29 am
In a revealing interview with Cowgill’s Jason Elliott, posted on YouTube this week, Sharon Brittan said, "Eddie Davies, God bless his soul, was an incredible man” and "an amazing person to have at this club".

On the other hand in his book, Sam Allardyce had little to say about Eddie Davies except that the man who made BSA into a multi-millionaire and kept BWFC afloat for the last nineteen years of his life was 'a ruthless businessman'.

Who do you believe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FlJSDo7K_A&t=1988s
Why not both. Not everyone works the same way and some times people can get wound up in the wrong way unintentionally.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:38 pm

Mar wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:21 pm
Gudnib wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:29 am
In a revealing interview with Cowgill’s Jason Elliott, posted on YouTube this week, Sharon Brittan said, "Eddie Davies, God bless his soul, was an incredible man” and "an amazing person to have at this club".

On the other hand in his book, Sam Allardyce had little to say about Eddie Davies except that the man who made BSA into a multi-millionaire and kept BWFC afloat for the last nineteen years of his life was 'a ruthless businessman'.

Who do you believe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FlJSDo7K_A&t=1988s
Why not both. Not everyone works the same way and some times people can get wound up in the wrong way unintentionally.
The facts support both and, as you say, why not. For those years we behaved like a big-time club off Eddie's support. It was only when the money tree withered and died the truth became known. We were a failed business venture in massive debt. Bolton Wanderers owed Eddie a debt that could neve be re-payed.Without him the Uniboll would probably be an American football venue today, an extended business park or a council housing estate..God bless Eddie Davies.
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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:41 pm

Gudnib wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:29 am
In a revealing interview with Cowgill’s Jason Elliott, posted on YouTube this week, Sharon Brittan said, "Eddie Davies, God bless his soul, was an incredible man” and "an amazing person to have at this club".

On the other hand in his book, Sam Allardyce had little to say about Eddie Davies except that the man who made BSA into a multi-millionaire and kept BWFC afloat for the last nineteen years of his life was 'a ruthless businessman'.

Who do you believe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FlJSDo7K_A&t=1988s
They're not mutually exclusive.
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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:30 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:38 pm
It was only when the money tree withered and died the truth became known. We were a failed business venture in massive debt. Bolton Wanderers owed Eddie a debt that could neve be re-payed.Without him the Uniboll would probably be an American football venue today, an extended business park or a council housing estate..God bless Eddie Davies.
Or it was only when our inevitable, eventual relegation occurred that Eddie's lack of football business acumen, came and bit us all on the arse.

For every Okocha there was a Keith Andrews. Failing to plan ahead is what led to Ken and our very near demise. Ultimately, that's Eddie's legacy. Very sad.
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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:36 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:41 pm
Gudnib wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:29 am
In a revealing interview with Cowgill’s Jason Elliott, posted on YouTube this week, Sharon Brittan said, "Eddie Davies, God bless his soul, was an incredible man” and "an amazing person to have at this club".

On the other hand in his book, Sam Allardyce had little to say about Eddie Davies except that the man who made BSA into a multi-millionaire and kept BWFC afloat for the last nineteen years of his life was 'a ruthless businessman'.

Who do you believe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FlJSDo7K_A&t=1988s
They're not mutually exclusive.
Bingo.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:13 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:41 pm
Gudnib wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:29 am
In a revealing interview with Cowgill’s Jason Elliott, posted on YouTube this week, Sharon Brittan said, "Eddie Davies, God bless his soul, was an incredible man” and "an amazing person to have at this club".

On the other hand in his book, Sam Allardyce had little to say about Eddie Davies except that the man who made BSA into a multi-millionaire and kept BWFC afloat for the last nineteen years of his life was 'a ruthless businessman'.

Who do you believe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FlJSDo7K_A&t=1988s
They're not mutually exclusive.
No they're not mutually exclusive but being a tough businessman is a million miles from being a ruthless one. Sharon admits to being tough and accepts that tough decisions have to be made but she also says she has a moral compass.

Ruthless means someone without a moral compass or scruples and, in BSA's case, it wasn't a word used casually or off-guard. So, except for the opinion of Sam Allardyce, where is the evidence that Eddie Davies was 'a ruthless businessman'?
Last edited by Gudnib on Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Prufrock » Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:27 pm

Oh no, do not eat me, if you wait my brother, a bigger goat, will be along in a second.
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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by TonyDomingos » Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:02 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:27 pm
Oh no, do not eat me, if you wait my brother, a bigger goat, will be along in a second.

:D I can't believe anyone bothered to respond to this.
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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Hoboh » Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:32 pm

I believe Eddie taking on BWFC was more out of sentiment then any sort of business plan, hell if I had the money of Musk, Bezos or Gates I seriously wouldn't touch a football club as any sort of business venture

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:34 pm

Gudnib wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:13 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:41 pm
Gudnib wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:29 am
In a revealing interview with Cowgill’s Jason Elliott, posted on YouTube this week, Sharon Brittan said, "Eddie Davies, God bless his soul, was an incredible man” and "an amazing person to have at this club".

On the other hand in his book, Sam Allardyce had little to say about Eddie Davies except that the man who made BSA into a multi-millionaire and kept BWFC afloat for the last nineteen years of his life was 'a ruthless businessman'.

Who do you believe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FlJSDo7K_A&t=1988s
They're not mutually exclusive.
No they're not mutually exclusive but being a tough businessman is a million miles from being a ruthless one.
Having previously worked for Dietrich Mateschitz, allow me to assure you, it's possible for someone to be both.
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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Hoboh » Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:43 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:34 pm
Gudnib wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:13 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:41 pm
Gudnib wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:29 am
In a revealing interview with Cowgill’s Jason Elliott, posted on YouTube this week, Sharon Brittan said, "Eddie Davies, God bless his soul, was an incredible man” and "an amazing person to have at this club".

On the other hand in his book, Sam Allardyce had little to say about Eddie Davies except that the man who made BSA into a multi-millionaire and kept BWFC afloat for the last nineteen years of his life was 'a ruthless businessman'.

Who do you believe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FlJSDo7K_A&t=1988s
They're not mutually exclusive.
No they're not mutually exclusive but being a tough businessman is a million miles from being a ruthless one.

Having previously worked for Dietrich Mateschitz, allow me to assure you, it's possible for someone to be both.
Totally agree Bruce, the guy who owned the last company I worked for was an Eastender about as ruthless as the Krays but it never stopped him digging into his own pocket at this time of year adding to official bonuses.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:09 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:38 pm
Mar wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:21 pm
Gudnib wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:29 am
In a revealing interview with Cowgill’s Jason Elliott, posted on YouTube this week, Sharon Brittan said, "Eddie Davies, God bless his soul, was an incredible man” and "an amazing person to have at this club".

On the other hand in his book, Sam Allardyce had little to say about Eddie Davies except that the man who made BSA into a multi-millionaire and kept BWFC afloat for the last nineteen years of his life was 'a ruthless businessman'.

Who do you believe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FlJSDo7K_A&t=1988s
Why not both. Not everyone works the same way and some times people can get wound up in the wrong way unintentionally.
The facts support both do they?and, as you say, why not. For those years we behaved like a big-time club off Eddie's support. It was only when the money tree withered and died the truth became known. We were a failed business venture in massive debt. Bolton Wanderers owed Eddie a debt that could neve be re-payed.Without him the Uniboll would probably be an American football venue today, an extended business park or a council housing estate..God bless Eddie Davies.
The facts support both do they?

Just so we know what we are talking about, here are a few synonyms for 'ruthless':
cruel, uncaring, hard-hearted, callous, merciless, inhumane, uncharitable etc etc.

You don't think that we might have learned more about Sharon Brittan from her kind, appreciative, thoughtful and spontaneous comments than we learned about Eddie Davies? And don't you also think, by the same token, that we learned a lot about Sam Allardyce from his not so spontaneous comment?

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:30 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:00 am
I'm well aware what we are talking about thanks Gudnib. Not sure where this is going to be honest. Sharon and co must be well aware of past errors and sins committed and yet see their way to running a successful club. No one could have predicted Covid and its devastating effects on so many things, yet life goes on and we're in a "One day at a time" situation that dwelling on a "what if" achieves little except lessons learned, which better and more informed financial brains than ours (at least we have to believe) are in the driving seat.

"Faith can move mountains" we're told, and though you may tear my post to ribbons, we're all just expressing views. To end on a classic rebuttal of always answer a question with a question; if you had the money, would you buy Bolton Wanderers?
Just a point: Nineteen years (quoted) is quite a long time for change even in millionaires. Back in that time we had Campo on loan, Frandsen Gardener, Okocha, Nolan, Djorkayev, N,Gotty etc,etc on our books. A different world to today.
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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:39 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:30 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:00 am
I'm well aware what we are talking about thanks Gudnib. Not sure where this is going to be honest. Sharon and co must be well aware of past errors and sins committed and yet see their way to running a successful club. No one could have predicted Covid and its devastating effects on so many things, yet life goes on and we're in a "One day at a time" situation that dwelling on a "what if" achieves little except lessons learned, which better and more informed financial brains than ours (at least we have to believe) are in the driving seat.

"Faith can move mountains" we're told, and though you may tear my post to ribbons, we're all just expressing views. To end on a classic rebuttal of always answer a question with a question; if you had the money, would you buy Bolton Wanderers?
Just a point: Nineteen years (quoted) is quite a long time for change even in millionaires. Back in that time we had Campo on loan, Frandsen Gardener, Okocha, Nolan, Djorkayev, N,Gotty etc,etc on our books. A different world to today.
I was really talking about who is believable and who isn't, TD. Sharon seemed quite credible in her interview with Jason Elliott which even now few Bolton fans have bothered to watch. Sam, on the other hand, is so consumed by his own brilliance that he's totally oblivious of his own bullshit. His book was a shining example but there are loads of others.

Would I buy BWFC if I had loadsamoney? Not a chance. The worst decision Eddie Davies made in his life was to take over 94.5% of the business in 2003.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:33 pm

Okay. I'm not really at odds with anything you're saying Gudnib, because there are too many questions I would have to say "I just don't know! to. Nineteen years ago both Sam Allardyce and Phil Gartside were getting their fair amount of lambasting from the fans and when Sam joined Newcastle he was less than a local hero here.. All I do know is that Eddie Davis was the one who threw the lifebelt when we were heading for the rocks.

An undeniable fact in high finance is that the more money you have/make, the more the inland revenue will cheer you on as they cut a large slice of pie.. It's why self-employed people and business owners buy mansions, Bentley's (even football clubs) rather than publish pure profit. Accepting that, can you blame them. A great example of current head-shaking lunacy is Bruce Springstein selling his music rights for five-hundred million dollars.
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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:27 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:33 pm
Okay. I'm not really at odds with anything you're saying Gudnib, because there are too many questions I would have to say "I just don't know! to. Nineteen years ago both Sam Allardyce and Phil Gartside were getting their fair amount of lambasting from the fans and when Sam joined Newcastle he was less than a local hero here.. All I do know is that Eddie Davis was the one who threw the lifebelt when we were heading for the rocks.

An undeniable fact in high finance is that the more money you have/make, the more the inland revenue will cheer you on as they cut a large slice of pie.. It's why self-employed people and business owners buy mansions, Bentley's (even football clubs) rather than publish pure profit. Accepting that, can you blame them. A great example of current head-shaking lunacy is Bruce Springstein selling his music rights for five-hundred million dollars.
You may remember that when Eddie lent Ken Anderson the money to pay off the BluMarble loan in September 2018, it was to be his final act before he died. You may also remember that just a few weeks before that Marc Iles published an article in the Bolton News in which he claimed that the building of the Reebok Stadium had been funded by Gordon Hargreaves. It was the most jaw-dropping garbage imaginable and proved beyond all doubt that the Bolton News and its Chief Football Writer hadn't a clue about the financial challenges and funding of BWFC over the previous twenty years.

There would have been no state-of-the art training facilities at Euxton, no army of fitness coaches and sports scientists and no Djorkaeff, Okocha, Campo or Hierro at Bolton without the money and personal commitment of Eddie Davies. But the stakes were to get bigger, a lot bigger with more and more money from broadcasting seriously imperiling the football economy for all but the richest clubs and richest owners. Eddie was never in that league and neither were Bolton Wanderers.

I notice that there have been a few viewings of the Sharon Brittan interview overnight but nowhere near as many as there should be. This is a most interesting interview for anyone who cares about Bolton Wanderers. Well done to Sharon and Jason Elliott.
Last edited by Gudnib on Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:41 am

Gudnib wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:27 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:33 pm
Okay. I'm not really at odds with anything you're saying Gudnib, because there are too many questions I would have to say "I just don't know! to. Nineteen years ago both Sam Allardyce and Phil Gartside were getting their fair amount of lambasting from the fans and when Sam joined Newcastle he was less than a local hero here.. All I do know is that Eddie Davis was the one who threw the lifebelt when we were heading for the rocks.

An undeniable fact in high finance is that the more money you have/make, the more the inland revenue will cheer you on as they cut a large slice of pie.. It's why self-employed people and business owners buy mansions, Bentley's (even football clubs) rather than publish pure profit. Accepting that, can you blame them. A great example of current head-shaking lunacy is Bruce Springstein selling his music rights for five-hundred million dollars.
You may remember that when Eddie lent Ken Anderson the money to pay off the BluMarble loan in September 2018, it was to be his final act before he died. You may also remember that just a few weeks before that Marc Iles published an article in the Bolton News in which he claimed that the building of the Reebok Stadium had been funded by Gordon Hargreaves. It was the most jaw-dropping garbage imaginable and proved beyond all doubt that the Bolton News and its Chief Football Writer hadn't a clue about the financial challenges or funding of BWFC over the previous twenty years.

There would have been no state-of-the art training facilities at Euxton, no army of fitness coaches and sports scientists and no Djorkaeff, Okocha, Campo or Hierro at Bolton without the money and personal commitment of Eddie Davies. But the stakes were to get bigger, a lot bigger with more and more money from broadcasting seriously imperiling the football economy for all but the richest clubs and richest owners. Eddie was never in that league and neither were Bolton Wanderers.

I notice that there have been a few viewings of the Sharon Brittan interview overnight but nowhere near as many as there should be. This is a most interesting interview for anyone who cares about Bolton Wanderers. Well done to Sharon and Jason Elliott.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:13 am

Pleased to see that the Sharon interview is now getting noticed at last.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:15 am

Gudnib wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:13 am
Pleased to see that the Sharon interview is now getting noticed at last.
For anyone who would like to see it;

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