Who do you believe?

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

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Gudnib
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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:32 pm


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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:21 am

Happy New Year to one and all.

Every day and every year bring new experiences; new things to learn and new things to treasure. But it also reminds us that the world is full of nitwits and people who are so gullible and unworldly that they somehow manage to stumble through it without ever really learning or understanding much at all.

That Universities grant chairs to folk like that should only surprise those who have not encountered many University professors in real life.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">8 years ago today, I realised that <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/bwfc?src=ha ... ">#bwfc</a> were in deep trouble and <a href="https://twitter.com/MarcIles?ref_src=tw ... arcIles</a> became my go-to football financial analyst. Boy, those were rough times. <a href="https://t.co/U98PPA8CaE">https://t.co/U ... </p>&mdash; Andrew Lee (@leeconomicsKA) <a href="https://twitter.com/leeconomicsKA/statu ... ">December 31, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm still gobsmacked though.
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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:49 am

Allow me to explain. Apparently it hadn't dawned on Bolton supporter, Professor Andrew Lee, that there was an owner funding problem at BWFC until 2013. That is FOUR YEARS after owner and funder Eddie Davies had retired from the Board of Burnden Leisure.

And his 'go- to football financial analyst' on it all has remained for the last EIGHT YEARS none other than Marc Iles who had spent TEN YEARS as Chief Football Writer at the Bolton News when announcing that Gordon Hargreaves had funded the Reebok Stadium!!!!!!!

YOU COULD NOT MAKE IT UP

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:29 am

Even Bob Cratchit got Christmas and New Year off. Compliments of the season to you. :D


ae:)
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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:44 am

Thanks Tango. Compliments of the season to you too.

Cratchit got New Year off too, did he, the idle so-and-so?

Bullshitting is a 365 days a year industry and there can be no rest for the bullshit hunters.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:02 am

Having read a few more of Professor Andrew Lee's tweets I am unconvinced that he fits the mould of the dotty professor. The levels of dottiness and eccentricity that I have in mind usually take years of refinement and he seems to be too young for that.

Nope there's something else going on there and I believe that I've seen it a few times before. Its something that he, Marc Iles and David Conn all seem to have in common; a virtual compulsion to completely blank out any facts that do not fit in with their existing prejudices.

I believe I first noticed it with Conn when Eddie Davies paid off all the Reebok debt a few days before he retired from the Board of Burnden Leisure in 2009. In Conn's perverse way of thinking, Davies had done this to profit from the interest ignoring the fact that, barring a minor miracle, Davies was never likely to get any of the interest unless he provided the funds to pay it himself and was unlikely to see much, if any, of his capital ever again.

Davies had lashed out the neck end of £100m by then and would end up spending a similar amount over the next nine years trying to keep BWFC afloat. He died in September 2018 two or three days after he had lent Ken Anderson the money to pay off the BluMarble mortgage taken out by Dean Holdsworth in March 2016. There were a few weasel words from the Bolton News and a small number of supporters attended the memorial service but its all mostly forgotten.

Professor Lee says that he's proud to be a member of the Supporters Trust but none of the ST, the Beeno or the Grauniad ever did get round to commenting on how much Holdsworth's involvement had cost BWFC.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:16 am

Lest I forget, Eddie Davies never did appear on the Sunday Times Rich list again after 2008 and you don't need to be a professor of anything to figure out why.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:48 am

Do you like talking to yourself ?

I don't think that anyone else is interested in your posts on this thread.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:13 pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:48 am
Do you like talking to yourself ?

I don't think that anyone else is interested in your posts on this thread.
With all due respect, I don't post for the attention of those that 'don't think' but for those that do think.
I'm sorry if that upsets you.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:04 pm

Gudnib wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:16 am
Lest I forget, Eddie Davies never did appear on the Sunday Times Rich list again after 2008 and you don't need to be a professor of anything to figure out why.
Now that is interesting. OK, I meet your criteria of not being a professor of anything ;) , however, to this laymen, two possibilities exist (or, of course, a combination of the two).
Was ED's collateral sufficiently diminished by his Wanderers' ownership to see him removed from the list? Was he simply overtaken by others? Or a combination of the two?

What puzzles me here (leave it) is this. We'd hear every year how we'd ran up debts once again of £X Million over the period, and further, how the debt had been increased by further monies owed to ED at a spectacular interest rate. Now, if those numbers were reported as a loss to the club, then wouldn't it follow that they'd also needed reporting as at least a theoretical gain to ED?
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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:46 am

The reason ED got nowhere near the Sunday Times Rich List after 2008, Bruce, is quite simply BWFC.

The Times had him down as being worth £100m in 2007 and £98m in 2008 but you have to remember that these figures are ESTIMATES based on information that might easily be 12 months or more out of date. They were intended to include everything he owned, or effectively owned, like Fildraw, Moonshift and the Eddie Davies Trust. I suspect he was probably worth more but maybe not by all that much.

When Sam Allardyce took flight in 2007, ED had already spent £15-17million on the club depending on whether you believed the Guardian or the Bolton Evening News. I view both with scepticism but don't doubt that it would it be somewhere near that. He had also guaranteed some of the bank debt, including the funds provided to buy Nicolas Anelka.

By mid-2010 ED had lent the club another £79m taking the loan account up to £85m inclusive of re-invested or rolled-up interest, the money being used mainly to repay the bank debt and fund further investment in the playing squad.

FourFourTwo reported ED to be worth £60m in 2010 and two years later reduced their estimate to £40m before ED disappeared entirely off any rich list.

By 2015 the loan account had reached £185.5m including £14.4m of re-invested/ rolled up interest. In other words ED had provided the club with £171m capital between Allardyce’s departure and 2015, all of which was written off in due course including the interest.

It’s unsurprising that there have been so many misconceptions. Reporting in the media has been consistently abysmal since ED took over full effective control in 2003 but I suspect that the roots of it go further back than that. A psychologist might understand how the old guard at BWFC and their pals might have responded to this younger and wealthier businessman arriving on the scene in 1999 to, in effect, dictate to them the terms on which he would provide money that the club would need if it wanted to get back into the Premiership or stay there.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:12 am

You asked the questions, Bruce, did you understand the answers?

As for a Professor of Economics thinking that Marc Iles is a 'go-to football financial analyst', words fail me, they really really do.

P.S. At least viewings of the Sharon interview have now passed 5,000. Lets be grateful for some small mercies, shall we?

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:13 pm

Gudnib wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:12 am
You asked the questions, Bruce, did you understand the answers?

As for a Professor of Economics thinking that Marc Iles is a 'go-to football financial analyst', words fail me, they really really do.

P.S. At least viewings of the Sharon interview have now passed 5,000. Lets be grateful for some small mercies, shall we?
Chiefly, yes (many thanks). However, your answers have thrown up a couple more questions which I'll come back to you on if that's OK?
May the bridges I burn light your way

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:26 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:13 pm
Gudnib wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:12 am
You asked the questions, Bruce, did you understand the answers?

As for a Professor of Economics thinking that Marc Iles is a 'go-to football financial analyst', words fail me, they really really do.

P.S. At least viewings of the Sharon interview have now passed 5,000. Lets be grateful for some small mercies, shall we?
Chiefly, yes (many thanks). However, your answers have thrown up a couple more questions which I'll come back to you on if that's OK?
Many thanks. I'm pleased the answers have thrown up some more questions. That's exactly what I hoped they would do. There's no rush.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:46 pm

Gudnib wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:26 pm
I'm pleased the answers have thrown up some more questions.
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:04 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:46 pm
Gudnib wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:26 pm
I'm pleased the answers have thrown up some more questions.
Has he been, Lily?
https://youtu.be/95xdGcBbMWI
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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:54 am

Interested in what Sharon had to say? Here's a bit more about Sharon:

https://mcsbrent.co.uk/governors/

And here's a bit more about the Headteacher at Michaela Community School:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/arti ... singh.html

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:20 am

Red Nev's mate Dale Vince was on his soapbox in the i yesterday .
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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:23 am

Gudnib wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:20 am
Red Nev's mate Dale Vince was on his soapbox in the i yesterday .

tps://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/how-to-save-money-on-your-energy-bills-green-fuel-fight-climate-change-1382189/amp

Strangely he was never asked about how much government cash had gone into Ecotricty's coffers, how much of that had gone to FGR or how much tax he'd paid on the £12m interest-free loans he'd had out of Ecotricity. For somebody who claims he isn't interested in wealth or possessions, it seems like quite a lot to me.

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Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Gudnib » Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:44 am

Now we know that it was a 'ruthless businessman' that trickled another £92million into BWFC after he'd departed the Board of Burnden Leisure and another £7.5m after he'd 'sold' all his shares, we need someone to explain the difference between a steaming pile of horseshit and a Rhodedendron 'Daviesii'. Where's Monty Don when you need him?

https://www.gardeningexpress.co.uk/s900 ... ododendron

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