The state of the squad

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Re: The state of the squad

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:22 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:13 pm
Oh I'd happily take a Bergsson, all day. Where Santos is different to a Taggart/Hendry is that he's not a vocal organiser. Evatt has spoken about that and made him captain in order to bring him out of himself, but there's only so far you can change people's character types.

I don't sign up to the Braveheart b0ll0cks (although I guess plenty of players do) but I think we need a bit of that, and after every defeat there's a virtual stampede to criticise our lack of leadership. Back in his Bolton days Allardyce said there's two types of captain, and citing the leading players of the time we can categorise them as John Terrys (Bravehearts) and David Beckhams (quieter leaders by example), and the impression I get round here at 5pm every Saturday is that folks wants Terrys. I would cite Bergsson and indeed Baptiste as more Beckham than Terry.
I mean the problem is that Santos isn’t the defender he should be for his size and stature. But If we are sticking with him we need someone to compliment him and for me it’s a reader of the game who tells him what to do. A big commanding captain type centre half would be nice but it does then come down to balance in the side.

I agree re leaders but suspect more and more it will be Beckhams not Terrys in football.

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Re: The state of the squad

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:07 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:56 am

I’d put Baptiste in the Bergson style reader of the game.

Then you're clearly on drugs. Shrooooms of the Dunscar Golf Club variety. Absolutely spanked off of yer tits. Christ alfuckingmighty!!!! :shock:
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Re: The state of the squad

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:23 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:07 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:56 am

I’d put Baptiste in the Bergson style reader of the game.
Then you're clearly on drugs. Shrooooms of the Dunscar Golf Club variety. Absolutely spanked off of yer tits. Christ alfuckingmighty!!!! :shock:
TBF to BWFCi, we were talking types and I took BWFCi's Bergsson comment as meaning he's "more of a calm Bergsson than a hollering Taggart", which I think is fair. (Obviously he's many levels lower, but such is our situation.)

Baps was, last season, a decent reader of the game. Trouble is now he's got 25% slower and oppos in this division are 25% faster. Plymouth in particular was painful.

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Re: The state of the squad

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:33 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:23 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:07 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:56 am

I’d put Baptiste in the Bergson style reader of the game.
Then you're clearly on drugs. Shrooooms of the Dunscar Golf Club variety. Absolutely spanked off of yer tits. Christ alfuckingmighty!!!! :shock:
TBF to BWFCi, we were talking types and I took BWFCi's Bergsson comment as meaning he's "more of a calm Bergsson than a hollering Taggart", which I think is fair. (Obviously he's many levels lower, but such is our situation.)

Baps was, last season, a decent reader of the game. Trouble is now he's got 25% slower and oppos in this division are 25% faster. Plymouth in particular was painful.
Yeah types. Not levels. Baptiste was that type of defender in league two. More than I’d call him the league two Hendry.

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Re: The state of the squad

Post by Prufrock » Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:25 pm

These things aren't absolutes. We're in a little danger of getting towards saying Rico is a mute little mouse who needs someone guiding him with a PlayStation controller. It was v noticeable at (I think) Lincoln away that he was very much in charge. Even from our goals kicks he was making little changes to where Jones, Baka and MJ started from. And he's been made captain for a reason.

I think he's improved on that, but it becomes a big ask when you don't have a settled partner on either side of you, and then when we lost the main shield in MJ.

I've been back to check and we have named the same back 4 in 3 consecutive league games once all season (Jones, Santos, Johnstone, Gordon) in September (it was for 4 games, but that's the only time we've above 2), and only another 4 occasions for even two consecutive league games. All of Jones, John, Santos, Aimson, Brocky and even emergency Isgrove have missed multiple games. That has a huge impact.

Of course you will have some injuries but that's a lot to cope with. Of course it's the manager's job to deal with that, but I think we'd have a better idea on individuals if they could get a run together.
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Re: The state of the squad

Post by GhostoftheBok » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:31 am

It is a bit black and white I agree, but it's a bit of fun on a football forum rather than serious analysis.

I agree there's far more nuance to be had here.

Unusually, I agree with Insane quite a bit here. We are in a false position. I am not sure I agree on the causes for that, but that's another issue.

I think we have very few players who are simply not capable at this level and never will be (again) - which is the veterans. Gilks knows it and is stepping aside. I suspect Baps also knows it. Tutte hasn't had a chance, but he and Delf are both also on that list. Delf is probably the most likely to protest at that...sorry, Nath.

I actually think some of the younger players could be in a squad that stays up, they just can't be mainstays and you can't have too many of them in at a time. When you have Brocky, Gordon and Thomason in the same side you're in bother, especially if Baps is in the centre. It's just too many of your back-up singers trying to do lead vocals. I also think Dixon falls into this category.

I will differ from almost everyone by saying that I think a lot of our players could be part of a squad that gets promoted. Again, I think some would be back up singers and not leads, but I don't think we're in too bad a shape. My feeling is that we will do good work in this window (I don't agree the summer was a disaster) and in the summer we will have the job of adding serious quality rather than a million players.

Jones, John, Santos, Johnston, Aimson, Williams, Lee, Sheehan, Dapo, Kachunga, Izzy, Charles and Baka can, I think, all be part of what Evatt wants to do here.

If we do end up getting Morley and Dempsey this window then I think we're getting very close to where I wanted us to be last summer. It'll be a case of looking for real quality in the summer - as in the kinds of players who can not only take you up but keep you up. If we can also get another good striker (or god forbid, one better than Charles *hushed gasps of awe*) then I think summer is 90% about the defence. That's unless we get Jack Tucker now...Ian, if you're reading this....go and buy Jack Tucker.

I get we are staring the drop zone square in the face and are absolutely shocking right now, but as with last year I think there are considerable strides to be made in short order if we recruit well. I also think we were far closer to competitive going into this window than we were last time.

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Re: The state of the squad

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:25 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:33 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:23 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:07 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:56 am

I’d put Baptiste in the Bergson style reader of the game.
Then you're clearly on drugs. Shrooooms of the Dunscar Golf Club variety. Absolutely spanked off of yer tits. Christ alfuckingmighty!!!! :shock:
TBF to BWFCi, we were talking types and I took BWFCi's Bergsson comment as meaning he's "more of a calm Bergsson than a hollering Taggart", which I think is fair. (Obviously he's many levels lower, but such is our situation.)

Baps was, last season, a decent reader of the game. Trouble is now he's got 25% slower and oppos in this division are 25% faster. Plymouth in particular was painful.
Yeah types. Not levels. Baptiste was that type of defender in league two. More than I’d call him the league two Hendry.
The only category I'd couple both Baptiste and Hendy in, is that they both rinsed us for a late-order living. I have Baptiste down as being one of our worst ever. I'm not sure that he's even had a decent game for us, ever!
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Re: The state of the squad

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:29 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:25 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:33 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:23 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:07 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:56 am

I’d put Baptiste in the Bergson style reader of the game.
Then you're clearly on drugs. Shrooooms of the Dunscar Golf Club variety. Absolutely spanked off of yer tits. Christ alfuckingmighty!!!! :shock:
TBF to BWFCi, we were talking types and I took BWFCi's Bergsson comment as meaning he's "more of a calm Bergsson than a hollering Taggart", which I think is fair. (Obviously he's many levels lower, but such is our situation.)

Baps was, last season, a decent reader of the game. Trouble is now he's got 25% slower and oppos in this division are 25% faster. Plymouth in particular was painful.
Yeah types. Not levels. Baptiste was that type of defender in league two. More than I’d call him the league two Hendry.
The only category I'd couple both Baptiste and Hendy in, is that they both rinsed us for a late-order living. I have Baptiste down as being one of our worst ever. I'm not sure that he's even had a decent game for us, ever!
But harsh, second half of last season we kept a lot of clean sheets and Baps was pretty important in that.

It was league two, and he was absolutely useless higher up for us. But I’d say last season he was important as a defender especially his experience.

Hendry paid for himself didn’t he with his work in part of getting us the premiership pot. So yeah…

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Re: The state of the squad

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:38 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:29 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:25 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:33 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:23 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:07 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:56 am

I’d put Baptiste in the Bergson style reader of the game.
Then you're clearly on drugs. Shrooooms of the Dunscar Golf Club variety. Absolutely spanked off of yer tits. Christ alfuckingmighty!!!! :shock:
TBF to BWFCi, we were talking types and I took BWFCi's Bergsson comment as meaning he's "more of a calm Bergsson than a hollering Taggart", which I think is fair. (Obviously he's many levels lower, but such is our situation.)

Baps was, last season, a decent reader of the game. Trouble is now he's got 25% slower and oppos in this division are 25% faster. Plymouth in particular was painful.
Yeah types. Not levels. Baptiste was that type of defender in league two. More than I’d call him the league two Hendry.
The only category I'd couple both Baptiste and Hendy in, is that they both rinsed us for a late-order living. I have Baptiste down as being one of our worst ever. I'm not sure that he's even had a decent game for us, ever!

But harsh, second half of last season we kept a lot of clean sheets and Baps was pretty important in that.

It was league two, and he was absolutely useless higher up for us. But I’d say last season he was important as a defender especially his experience.

Hendry paid for himself didn’t he with his work in part of getting us the premiership pot. So yeah…
Hendry attempted to sue us when we flogged him to Blackpool for the remainder of his contract in an attempt to settle his gambling debts. So yeah.....
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Re: The state of the squad

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:49 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:38 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:29 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:25 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:33 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:23 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:07 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:56 am

I’d put Baptiste in the Bergson style reader of the game.
Then you're clearly on drugs. Shrooooms of the Dunscar Golf Club variety. Absolutely spanked off of yer tits. Christ alfuckingmighty!!!! :shock:
TBF to BWFCi, we were talking types and I took BWFCi's Bergsson comment as meaning he's "more of a calm Bergsson than a hollering Taggart", which I think is fair. (Obviously he's many levels lower, but such is our situation.)

Baps was, last season, a decent reader of the game. Trouble is now he's got 25% slower and oppos in this division are 25% faster. Plymouth in particular was painful.
Yeah types. Not levels. Baptiste was that type of defender in league two. More than I’d call him the league two Hendry.
The only category I'd couple both Baptiste and Hendy in, is that they both rinsed us for a late-order living. I have Baptiste down as being one of our worst ever. I'm not sure that he's even had a decent game for us, ever!

But harsh, second half of last season we kept a lot of clean sheets and Baps was pretty important in that.

It was league two, and he was absolutely useless higher up for us. But I’d say last season he was important as a defender especially his experience.

Hendry paid for himself didn’t he with his work in part of getting us the premiership pot. So yeah…
Hendry attempted to sue us when we flogged him to Blackpool for the remainder of his contract in an attempt to settle his gambling debts. So yeah.....
Christ I’d forgotten that.

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Re: The state of the squad

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:53 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:49 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:38 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:29 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:25 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:33 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:23 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:07 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:56 am

I’d put Baptiste in the Bergson style reader of the game.
Then you're clearly on drugs. Shrooooms of the Dunscar Golf Club variety. Absolutely spanked off of yer tits. Christ alfuckingmighty!!!! :shock:
TBF to BWFCi, we were talking types and I took BWFCi's Bergsson comment as meaning he's "more of a calm Bergsson than a hollering Taggart", which I think is fair. (Obviously he's many levels lower, but such is our situation.)

Baps was, last season, a decent reader of the game. Trouble is now he's got 25% slower and oppos in this division are 25% faster. Plymouth in particular was painful.
Yeah types. Not levels. Baptiste was that type of defender in league two. More than I’d call him the league two Hendry.
The only category I'd couple both Baptiste and Hendy in, is that they both rinsed us for a late-order living. I have Baptiste down as being one of our worst ever. I'm not sure that he's even had a decent game for us, ever!

But harsh, second half of last season we kept a lot of clean sheets and Baps was pretty important in that.

It was league two, and he was absolutely useless higher up for us. But I’d say last season he was important as a defender especially his experience.

Hendry paid for himself didn’t he with his work in part of getting us the premiership pot. So yeah…
Hendry attempted to sue us when we flogged him to Blackpool for the remainder of his contract in an attempt to settle his gambling debts. So yeah.....
Christ I’d forgotten that.

Mate, there are just certain things about certain players. Ian Marshall, for example, played his fecking heart out for us. Colin Hendry most certainly didn't.
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Re: The state of the squad

Post by Mar » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:01 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:38 pm
Hendry attempted to sue us when we flogged him to Blackpool for the remainder of his contract in an attempt to settle his gambling debts. So yeah.....
Is this actually a thing? I googled this but didn't manage to find any note of it. I'm aware of the issues he had with his wife and the suing around that but wasn't aware he was trying to sue the club.

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