Re: Quo Vadis time again. Home V Wycombe Wanderers ,Tues.10-01-22. 8'0clock.

[GhostoftheBok]

if you buy the other lot (small (in a "presence" sense"), technically gifted) footballers and the system will look after the deficiencies...

Who has said that, Worthy? People keep telling me I've said this, or I've said that "Evattball" can't stand "proper defenders" or "ballwinners" or whatever else. Dunno if you meant me, but I'll bite a little.

In the summer I said it was possible for us to win the league if we had a perfect window due to the nature of the league (look at nearly relegated Wigan), but that the business we'd done lacked far too many things. We didn't get a proper centre forward, we didn't get a physical and aggressive central midfielder, we didn't add depth at fullback and we kept on Tutte and Baps. I also wasn't happy with our options in goal.

I've had these down as issues for 6 months, but knowing what the issues are and finding the right players to fix them (especially in January) are two different things.

These lads we get need to be able to play with the ball at feet. Like I said before, we didn't lose to Wycombe because they were the better version of Wycombe. We lost because we are currently shit at what we are supposed to do. How many of our issues we can remedy in this window depends on who is available in our budget and who we can shift on.

[GhostoftheBok]

Evatt has been here a year and a half and been backed to do what he wants. He’s signed players and then replaced them. He’s had it his way to build a side over three windows.

His first window was signing an entire squad whilst under embargo. His second window, still under embargo, he started correcting. Last summer he was rebuilding for a new league.

Are you seriously trying to claim Evatt's had some easy ride and a free hand to mould his squad?

I don't mind quite a bit of this squad, though how much of a squad there is right now with injuries is a debate. But come on....you're taking the piss.

[BWFC_Insane]

We are improved. We're a league up. It takes time and we obviously didn't have the depth at the end of the last window. We're in a tough spell but that's what I mean about it not being a straight line. You don't stay in the same position all season.

They gambled that certain players would be sufficient cover/others wouldn't get injured. That hasn't paid off and we're suffering. Now is the chance to fix that, they seem very clearly to be on with that (money is being spent, numbers are being chased). That will take time but I'm very confident we will improve considerably from here to the end of the season, and if we don't we and the manager are in trouble. If Evatt and the board were saying this is all fine we'll go with what we've got, then I'd be v worried.

I've no problem with people saying they'd do this or that, but it's this idea that there's only one way to skin a cat and if he doesn't do this he's terrible and the worst.

We obvs needed to replace Sarc, we've signed Morley, you have an idea of the sort you'd want and he's not it. Fine, but you don't get to claim to be right before the lads kicked a ball. We obvs needed to replace Doyle. We've signed Charles. Same point again from 2 hours of football. We need to replace Sheehan. We're seemingly in for Dempsey. We needed cover for Jones. We've signed Fossey.

IMO those signings fix the most obvious of the oh Jesus problems (GK) aside and would comfortably have us safe. But it's a process to try to get to the top of the league and where we then need to start making the more marginal gains. It sounds like there are more coming in to address that.

That and f*cking set pieces.

I don’t mind any of our signings. But adding another full back great going forwards perhaps not very good at defending doesn’t fix our issues.

Adding a striker who like Doyle doesn’t look a lone striker in our system hasn’t helped our issues. But he’s quicker I will grant you that.

And Morley again a good signing but does he fix being physically bullied by teams like last night? I don’t see it at all.

My issue is less Evatt himself and more people who pretend that we are the league one ‘Liverpool’ or Man City and can’t sign players cos Evatt is fixed on a style. Last night we lumped balls at Bakayoko and played little football. Evatt doesn’t seem focussed on one style. But unless we fix the back four and midfield in terms of stopping other teams opening us up like sliding doors at will we will continue to struggle. And I’m worried that we’ve three signings including one defender that do not fix our most obvious fundamental problems.

I can get behind the gist of that but... It's the 11th of Jan. Wait until the end of the window at least!

My main point on midfield was that it was the obvious horror-show with the easiest gains to make and so the priority (Delf, GT and GJ). There are other issues too and I'm v happy it sounds like the budget is there to do that. If we don't sign the second midfielder, another forward, a keeper and a CB, given what's been said in the past few days, I'll be relatively disappointed.

Had you even heard of Morley before a few days ago? I hadn't. From the YouTube clips (I know I know, but I'm not talking about ability here) he looks a fit well built lad. I don't think he's a Sheehan. Dempsey isn't big but does have a bit of bite.

Evatt has been here a year and a half and been backed to do what he wants. He’s signed players and then replaced them. He’s had it his way to build a side over three windows. We aren’t progressing we have massively regressed and gone backwards since September.

I’m absolutely rejecting any sense that Evatt needs more of a window. He’s in his fourth window and has signed himself every player in this squad or offered them deals. He has just about an advantage over every manager we’ve had.

And our form is atrocious. Since Sarce went we look shocking. Whether it’s correlation or causation I don’t care.

The managers job is to fix it and now. He’s already had massive leeway. But last night his failings were laid bare.

Set pieces he hasn’t managed to sort in 18 months. That’s gross negligence. He has the potential to improve over the next few years. But right now he’s obviously not a very good manager at this level. I’m happy to keep him but he has to show humility and accept that his ego has been found out. And fix the issues. Now. For Saturday. Not by telling us he needs to replace another 6 of the players he signed in the summer. It’s a red flag for poor management. If he has to every window rebuild what he’s already built entirely then he’s no good. End of.

We got promoted you daft bastard

We stayed in the premiership and got to Wembley and were great for 8 months. It didn’t make Owen Coyle a good manager or prevent the fact he took the club on a steep decline that resulted in its near extinction.

We have in my view a team playing far worse now, and objectively achieving far worse results than the one that started the season.

The regression is not for debate. He’s released some of those players that started the season and is signing new ones. In some cases he’s onto his third signing for a position since arriving.

We currently have relegation form. It is the only right thing to judge him on results and performances now. The excuses are over. Last night was poor. And continues the shocking form. He can’t escape it. Either the team isn’t playing for him or the coaching is at fault or he’s signed poorly. Or a combination. But right now the form and dire stuff we suffer through is only down to his management.

[Prufrock]

I swear you're on a wind up. Of course he's signed players to replace players he's signed. Leaving aside we had to sign a whole new squad so there would obviously be some missed...we've gone up a league.

Did you expect him to sign a team last summer, in league 2, that would compete at the top end of league one ?!

[Prufrock]

What a bastard!

[BWFC_Insane]

I swear you're on a wind up. Of course he's signed players to replace players he's signed. Leaving aside we had to sign a whole new squad so there would obviously be some missed...we've gone up a league.

Did you expect him to sign a team last summer, in league 2, that would compete at the top end of league one ?!

Take a guess at who predicted this for the season on the eve of it starting…

I'm not worried at all about being at the bottom end, think top half would be about "par" and think we'll end up in the top 8

That was your expectation going in. With the squad we had assembled in August. Not saying ‘well we had to build a team last year so will be tough’.

I flagged our lack of goals and physicality at the same point.

So you’ve drastically lowered your expectations even though since then Evatt has signed more players, spent actual money and told us all we had the best team in the league and could win every game 6-0.

There is only one on a wind up and it certainly isn’t me.

Let’s measure where we sit now against your predictions. You told us ‘top half would be par’. Before of course Evatt also added his supposed top target in Kacha. If top half is par then either you’ve massive shifted your expectations or our performances have lowered them.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Ooh, it's a dangerous game to go digging up predictions...

[Prufrock]

I swear you're on a wind up. Of course he's signed players to replace players he's signed. Leaving aside we had to sign a whole new squad so there would obviously be some missed...we've gone up a league.

Did you expect him to sign a team last summer, in league 2, that would compete at the top end of league one ?!

Take a guess at who predicted this for the season on the eve of it starting…

I'm not worried at all about being at the bottom end, think top half would be about "par" and think we'll end up in the top 8

That was your expectation going in. With the squad we had assembled in August. Not saying ‘well we had to build a team last year so will be tough’.

I flagged our lack of goals and physicality at the same point.

So you’ve drastically lowered your expectations even though since then Evatt has signed more players, spent actual money and told us all we had the best team in the league and could win every game 6-0.

There is only one on a wind up and it certainly isn’t me.

Let’s measure where we sit now against your predictions. You told us ‘top half would be par’. Before of course Evatt also added his supposed top target in Kacha. If top half is par then either you’ve massive shifted your expectations or our performances have lowered them.

We've done worse than I expected so far, but we're only half way through and I expect us to improve after January. Top 8 obviously isn't happening but I still expect us to finish mid-table. I said before the season I worried about depth and unfortunately we've had injuries and the Sarc situation.

I'm not sure what you think my prediction being wrong proves though... And it's utterly irrelevant to your nonsense on transfers. As of 11 days ago he hadn't spent a penny in transfers but now he's "had more to spend than any manager in the last half decade". Of course he's signed replacements, we're a league up. Your backup centre back in league two (who he had to sign, because we had no squad) is obviously going to be cast aside when you're in league one.

But this is a fun game... Guess who said this ?

In a way it’s a great position because we have a season where as long as we stay up the rest isn’t so important inspite of what Evatt might say or contest. We can have a go. We have to remember we are a promoted team and that’s always a hard thing to read.

According to them, as long as we stay up the rest isn't important [Ed: check whether we are in, or out of, the relegation zone] and we, what's this, "have to remember we are a promoted team".

Xoxo

[BWFC_Insane]

Ooh, it's a dangerous game to go digging up predictions...

My point was I wasn’t the one expecting a promotion push. Yet apparently I’m judging our season too harshly yet top half being ‘just about par’ wasn’t my expectation.

People have bought into the Evatt hype and are seemingly prepared to die on that cross.

I repeat. I don’t want him sacked. But he does need to change. He’s a young manager who has not proven anything yet. And is nowhere near good enough to be able to say ‘we do things my way regardless of results’. He needs to learn and adapt. And continuing to fail to add the grit and experience and physicality we need in this league is not good.

I don’t expect us to go down and frankly we are spending money and wages well above our league position so an improvement should be there. But the last few months have been disastrous and Evatt clearly has had some sort of issue in the squad as nobody can tell me we are the group who were tight knit and worked their socks off for two months at the start…we are nowhere near that and it reflects on some wider issues I suspect.

[BWFC_Insane]

I swear you're on a wind up. Of course he's signed players to replace players he's signed. Leaving aside we had to sign a whole new squad so there would obviously be some missed...we've gone up a league.

Did you expect him to sign a team last summer, in league 2, that would compete at the top end of league one ?!

Take a guess at who predicted this for the season on the eve of it starting…

I'm not worried at all about being at the bottom end, think top half would be about "par" and think we'll end up in the top 8

That was your expectation going in. With the squad we had assembled in August. Not saying ‘well we had to build a team last year so will be tough’.

I flagged our lack of goals and physicality at the same point.

So you’ve drastically lowered your expectations even though since then Evatt has signed more players, spent actual money and told us all we had the best team in the league and could win every game 6-0.

There is only one on a wind up and it certainly isn’t me.

Let’s measure where we sit now against your predictions. You told us ‘top half would be par’. Before of course Evatt also added his supposed top target in Kacha. If top half is par then either you’ve massive shifted your expectations or our performances have lowered them.

We've done worse than I expected so far, but we're only half way through and I expect us to improve after January. Top 8 obviously isn't happening but I still expect us to finish mid-table. I said before the season I worried about depth and unfortunately we've had injuries and the Sarc situation.

I'm not sure what you think my prediction being wrong proves though... And it's utterly irrelevant to your nonsense on transfers. As of 11 days ago he hadn't spent a penny in transfers but now he's "had more to spend than any manager in the last half decade". Of course he's signed replacements, we're a league up. Your backup centre back in league two (who he had to sign, because we had no squad) is obviously going to be cast aside when you're in league one.

But this is a fun game... Guess who said this ?

In a way it’s a great position because we have a season where as long as we stay up the rest isn’t so important inspite of what Evatt might say or contest. We can have a go. We have to remember we are a promoted team and that’s always a hard thing to read.

According to them, as long as we stay up the rest isn't important [Ed: check whether we are in, or out of, the relegation zone] and we, what's this, "have to remember we are a promoted team".

Xoxo

I’m more than happy if we stay up. It as always where I felt we were. I’m not happy that we have current form or a relegation side and sit dangerously close to the drop zone. And complacency about we will sign players to fix it is starting to become a running theme. We had a good start. And since then have fallen apart. It’s not all down to injuries and something is wrong. The current form is not good enough for my expectation and miles and miles off yours. So let’s just accept that Evatt needs to fix it and fast.

[GhostoftheBok]

I repeat. I don’t want him sacked. But he does need to change. He’s a young manager who has not proven anything yet. And is nowhere near good enough to be able to say ‘we do things my way regardless of results’. He needs to learn and adapt. And continuing to fail to add the grit and experience and physicality we need in this league is not good.

Again, not to overdo it....we have signed three players this window. One is a strong, gritty, shithouse. Another you described as "brilliant"...the third is 6ft+, good in the air but, yes, is more of the typical "Evatt type" ball player.

Honestly, what are you going on about? Physically bigger, faster and stronger is exactly what they are.

[GhostoftheBok]

At this point it feels like we've gone past "they need to be more physically capable" and into "I'm suspicious of anyone who can pass a football."

[Bertie Wooster]

Ghost, out of interest which of our new signings is the 'One is a strong, gritty, shithouse' ?

[Prufrock]

I’m more than happy if we stay up. It as always where I felt we were. I’m not happy that we have current form or a relegation side and sit dangerously close to the drop zone. And complacency about we will sign players to fix it is starting to become a running theme. We had a good start. And since then have fallen apart. It’s not all down to injuries and something is wrong. The current form is not good enough for my expectation and miles and miles off yours. So let’s just accept that Evatt needs to fix it and fast.

Sure my prediction was optimistic. But what I would absolutely insist, in my defence, is that we have to remember we are a promoted team and that’s always a hard thing to read.

Chill out man, you sound mental. On the one hand you're saying you don't want him sacked and hope he learns, and on the other you want to judge him on players who haven't played, or in some cases haven't signed yet. You said
"I’m absolutely rejecting any sense that Evatt needs more of a window" but I mean, he's getting one isn't he? And there'll be games. And that's when he'll get judged.

No-one is claiming he's perfect or it's going well at the moment. Time will tell. But in this new spirit of accountability, why don't you head over to the predictions thread and make some...

[GhostoftheBok]

Ghost, out of interest which of our new signings is the 'One is a strong, gritty, shithouse' ?

Charles. Note I didn't say "big", but he was holding his own against their biggest defenders yesterday, leaves his boot in, fights and niggles. Annoying little bugger to play against. That's him half fit.

[DJBlu]

Ghost, out of interest which of our new signings is the 'One is a strong, gritty, shithouse' ?

Charles. Note I didn't say "big", but he was holding his own against their biggest defenders yesterday, leaves his boot in, fights and niggles. Annoying little bugger to play against. That's him half fit.

Held the ball up well too.

[Worthy4England]

Leaving aside we had to sign a whole new squad so there would obviously be some missed

Let's play the "who did Evatt say this about" game! And just how good our signings have been! Some have more hints in, some I've removed a bit of the narrative

1) “[Name] is a technically gifted player who can build attacks with his range of passing as well as be dynamic out of possession. He is a player who I have admired for a long time and we are excited to have him on board.”

2) "He is the modern-day goalkeeper who is very agile, great with the ball at his feet, and commands his area well"

3) “[Name] had a fantastic education where he came through at [Team] Academy and has all the attributes to play as an attacking wing-back: pace, stamina, good movement and quality with the ball”

4) "”He was highly thought of as a young player at [Team] and played for them. He’s done really well in League [] and is very good with the ball.”

5) “He is a player I have admired for while. [] but extremely quick and very good with the ball at his feet. [He] has all the attributes required to be an outstanding centre-back for this football club.”

6) "[Name] is an all-action [position] who can score and assist and I am delighted that we have brought him on board, his record at this level is exceptional and his arrival is another statement signing for his club.

7) “He is extremely quick and has good quality with his left foot. He is a young player with a bright future"

“We are delighted to have [Name] on board with us. He has been in with us since the start of pre-season []. He is 6ft 6ins tall, lightning quick and has an exceptional football education" “We are excited to have him.”

9) “He is just a handful to play against, but what I will say is his technical ability is undervalued as well. He can hold the play up, he can link play, and because he is so physically dominant, the ball doesn’t come straight back and it is able to stay up there.”

10) "“He’s a very talented footballer, there’s no two ways about it, and he’s really intelligent. It’s just about using that intelligence and getting him in the right positions on the ball"

11) “[Name] is another player who is a good age and has no end of improvement to come,” he said. “He is lightning quick, has excellent quality with his left foot and we are excited to add him into our group."

12) “I am all for giving people a chance and we have had in him over an extensive period to test him technically, tactically, physically and, more importantly, mentally; he came through with flying colours.

[GhostoftheBok]

Ghost, out of interest which of our new signings is the 'One is a strong, gritty, shithouse' ?

Charles. Note I didn't say "big", but he was holding his own against their biggest defenders yesterday, leaves his boot in, fights and niggles. Annoying little bugger to play against. That's him half fit.

Held the ball up well too.

Aye. Ran beyond their line too and was clearly too quick for them when he did. I'm not saying he's the second coming, but he clearly offers more than we've had in some key areas.

[Prufrock]

fun game, I've had a go.

Though tbf I'd be alarmed if he signed someone and said "this one? Yeesh, I don't think he's going to make it but we need a squad and he's cheap."

Slightly more seriously, of course recruitment wasn't perfect last year but I think there's only really one metric to judge it on, and we got promoted. Obviously this summer less successful than last Jan, but we can judge the season as a whole at the end.

Leaving aside we had to sign a whole new squad so there would obviously be some missed

Let's play the "who did Evatt say this about" game! And just how good our signings have been! Some have more hints in, some I've removed a bit of the narrative

1) “[Name] is a technically gifted player who can build attacks with his range of passing as well as be dynamic out of possession. He is a player who I have admired for a long time and we are excited to have him on board.”

Comley? White?

2) "He is the modern-day goalkeeper who is very agile, great with the ball at his feet, and commands his area well"

Got to be Billy

3) “[Name] had a fantastic education where he came through at [Team] Academy and has all the attributes to play as an attacking wing-back: pace, stamina, good movement and quality with the ball”

Gethin?

4) "”He was highly thought of as a young player at [Team] and played for them. He’s done really well in League [] and is very good with the ball.”

Comley?

5) “He is a player I have admired for while. [] but extremely quick and very good with the ball at his feet. [He] has all the attributes required to be an outstanding centre-back for this football club.”

Santos? Taft?

6) "[Name] is an all-action [position] who can score and assist and I am delighted that we have brought him on board, his record at this level is exceptional and his arrival is another statement signing for his club.

Sarc?

7) “He is extremely quick and has good quality with his left foot. He is a young player with a bright future"

Flash?

“We are delighted to have [Name] on board with us. He has been in with us since the start of pre-season []. He is 6ft 6ins tall, lightning quick and has an exceptional football education" “We are excited to have him.”

Reiss? Rico?

9) “He is just a handful to play against, but what I will say is his technical ability is undervalued as well. He can hold the play up, he can link play, and because he is so physically dominant, the ball doesn’t come straight back and it is able to stay up there.”

Delf?

10) "“He’s a very talented footballer, there’s no two ways about it, and he’s really intelligent. It’s just about using that intelligence and getting him in the right positions on the ball"

Miller?

11) “[Name] is another player who is a good age and has no end of improvement to come,” he said. “He is lightning quick, has excellent quality with his left foot and we are excited to add him into our group."

Mascoll?

12) “I am all for giving people a chance and we have had in him over an extensive period to test him technically, tactically, physically and, more importantly, mentally; he came through with flying colours.

Izzy?

[Worthy4England]

Might have confused - they're not all summer 20 signings t'was signings in general...the mark your own homework list is in white:

1) Comley
2) Crellin
3) Jones
4) MJ
5) Big Ric
6) Sarce
7) Gordon
Greenidge
9) Bakayoko
10) Sheehan
11) Jamie Mascoll
12) Jak Hickman