Stats

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

A few more quick last season v this season stats from Opta

Average sequence time down from 8.6 last season (3rd in the division) to 7.65 this season (6th)
Average passes per sequence down from 3.15 (3rd) to 2.9 (6th)
Average direct speed up from 1.43 m/s (20th) to 1.66 (5th)

Total 10+ pass op sequences 338 (3rd) to 77 (7th, tracking to 236 over season)
Total build-up attacks 61 (5th) to 20 (5th, tracking to 61.3)
Total direct attacks 65 (11th) to 20 (11th, tracking to 61.3)

Each in isolation can mean a variety of things but the overall pattern is that we're moving forward more quickly, using fewer passes (and a lot fewer of the 10-plus-pass sequences). Possible outlier is that we've had slightly fewer direct attacks.

[Worthy4England]

Yeah - I think that is generally visible. Whilst we still do a bit of tippy tappy across the back-line on occasion, it's a long way from last season where it felt like "this is how we play football"...so certainly an improvement.

I think if you look at City's same stats, it's clearly rather more nuanced, as they're in the bottom right quadrant and one of the "slowest" front to back teams on that particular "direct speed" measure. Where we differ significantly is City are capable of walking it upfield and still then have the skills and players to do something explosive with it...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

City is obviously an extreme case but in some ways an instructive comparison, for one may reason: against them, just about everybody tends to sit in. So they often keep ball in an attempt to feel out where the oppo's press starts, try to tempt them out, pass from side to side to stretch them etc. As you rightly say, they can counter-attack like the clappers when there's space to go into - it's just that there usually isn't.

We have in recent years had a problem with low blocks, and that's probably because instead of Mahrez we've had Elbouzedi, etc. We may have a chance of picking our way through if we can harness Dapo and Sads, but it's an if.

Intriguing and heartening that we won on Tuesday through a Route One and a second-phase set play. It would be a good thing to have in our armoury, and I've said several times I'd be delighted for us to go 1-0 up every game with a set-piece bouncing off their goalie's arse and play nice football thereafter. Evatt has always been accused of being an idealogue, but I see someone who has made major shifts on several occasions - not just formational, but removing Sarce/Doyle, and it seems this season being happier to get forward quickly.

[BWFC_Insane]

The thing in all this debate for me is that whether you lump the ball into the box from all angles, play short triangles round teams or build up play and create overloads down the sides or through the middle doesn’t matter too much so long as what you do is effective and suits the options you have.

I think when we pass sideways and backwards is a symptom rather than a cause. We aren’t passing it sideways and backwards to open an opportunity up. It’s usually because we can’t find a way through and the outcome of that is we play slower and less forwards.

So I think the big thing is we need to play with more purpose and at more tempo. If that means losing the ball more then I think that’s a good trade off. Against teams sitting in. Not so much against teams who are more front foot.

[Worthy4England]

The thing in all this debate for me is that whether you lump the ball into the box from all angles, play short triangles round teams or build up play and create overloads down the sides or through the middle doesn’t matter too much so long as what you do is effective and suits the options you have.

I think when we pass sideways and backwards is a symptom rather than a cause. We aren’t passing it sideways and backwards to open an opportunity up. It’s usually because we can’t find a way through and the outcome of that is we play slower and less forwards.

So I think the big thing is we need to play with more purpose and at more tempo. If that means losing the ball more then I think that’s a good trade off. Against teams sitting in. Not so much against teams who are more front foot.

Agree mate, for me at the moment, there's far too much talk around "shape, style, how the game should be played" etc. and not quite enough on "what do we do when the cunning masterplan isn't working" or "did we have the right masterplan before kick-off"

It feels a little too rigid for me at the moment around plan B when plan A isn't working. Whilst we've done well out of plan B the last two games, it sort of suggests that maybe we should have kicked the game off with plan B, rather than using it as a bring the patient back to life think, when it's near deaths door...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The thing in all this debate for me is that whether you lump the ball into the box from all angles, play short triangles round teams or build up play and create overloads down the sides or through the middle doesn’t matter too much so long as what you do is effective and suits the options you have.

I think when we pass sideways and backwards is a symptom rather than a cause. We aren’t passing it sideways and backwards to open an opportunity up. It’s usually because we can’t find a way through and the outcome of that is we play slower and less forwards.

So I think the big thing is we need to play with more purpose and at more tempo. If that means losing the ball more then I think that’s a good trade off. Against teams sitting in. Not so much against teams who are more front foot.

Yeah, I'd say that's fair enough, on the whole. My personal reading of it is that we sometimes have a lack of forward passing through midfield, and are too reliant on recycling to work it out wide - often via the longer raking switch. The latter is fine if it works but if it takes too long it allows defences to resettle. That's why I think we have often missed a central progressive passer - either in the 10-hole or as one of the 8s. I'm hopeful, especially after his Tuesday stats, that Sheehan can provide that without weakening the team structure too much.

When Sheehan was dropped into the team in summer 2021, Evatt changed the promotion-winning 4-2-3-1 by inverting the midfield triangle - instead of "two behind one" (say MJ and Lee behind Sarce) it became just MJ mopping up behind Sheehan and Sarce. That was obviously waaay too porous when combined with a back four rather than three/five, plus Baptiste dropping off and John being in and out of the team and then Gethin getting injured. We're now much more solid - usually - and we all saw the recent problems when a back five combined with an MJ/Thomo double-pivot led to a serious lack of creativity.

I hate to make anyone up to be The Answer but I do think Sheehan could - could - make us better in those tight games.

[TANGODANCER]

Coming from an era when "stats"/numbers were the half-time scores on tin plates hanging on a nail outside a wooden shack at the corner of Lever End at Burnden, they've never really impacted much on my Wanderers supporting. Bit late in life to change much now, but "hoping for the best" has always been mixed with a fair degree of "not a clue"-ness in forecasting results, whether Playing Bury, Oldham, Rochdale or Man United.

Simply put (with the greatest respect for the researchers), Stats are numbers that nobody would risk re-mortgaging their house on as a forecast stake. Like many thing in life "I really don't know" is about as honest as you can get. Unpredictable? football, not half..

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Interesting none of ours are on this. Given league position, it suggests we're sharing it around quite a bit.
.

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On further investigation at https://www.fotmob.com/leagues/108/stat ... att_assist

Morley is 26th (this is top 22), Bradley is 39th, Iredale 75th, Dapo 92nd

[Worthy4England]

Interesting but maybe not too much of a shock! Barry Bannan....there's an Ex-Wanderer

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Dion's joint-10th for Big Chances Missed (6) - joint-top are Jonson Clarke-Harris (Posh) and Ellis Harrison (Vale) both on 12! Conor Bradley joint-15th on 5.

Morley & Rico joint-13th for Accurate Long Balls per 90

[Worthy4England]

Possibly the best place for this, four-four-two have just done an article on the 50 dirtiest players in the Prem, based on fouls conceded.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/footbal ... b#image=51

I suspect one Wanderer is pretty easy to guess in 2nd place behind Gareth Barry. The other Wanderer might take a little more guesswork, in 40th place

Answers in white

2nd Super Kev
40th The other super Kev...

[GhostoftheBok]

Rico joint-13th for Accurate Long Balls per 90

The Rico who adds nothing to our passing from deep? That Rico?

[BWFC_Insane]

Rico joint-13th for Accurate Long Balls per 90

The Rico who adds nothing to our passing from deep? That Rico?

He’s 13th best in league one for supposedly his ‘best attribute’ that has to cover up his defensive issues. Yet you want me to believe he’s championship standard? Haha.

[GhostoftheBok]

He’s 13th best in league one for supposedly his ‘best attribute’ that has to cover up his defensive issues. Yet you want me to believe he’s championship standard? Haha.

His best attribute is his one-on-one defending at speed. You've watched him play football, right?

[truewhite15]

He’s 13th best in league one for supposedly his ‘best attribute’ that has to cover up his defensive issues. Yet you want me to believe he’s championship standard? Haha.

His best attribute is his one-on-one defending at speed. You've watched him play football, right?

You're fighting a losing battle there, mate. Everyone knows that Rico makes Gerald Cid look like prime Maldini.

Well, according to the Insane one, anyway.

[BWFC_Insane]

He’s 13th best in league one for supposedly his ‘best attribute’ that has to cover up his defensive issues. Yet you want me to believe he’s championship standard? Haha.

His best attribute is his one-on-one defending at speed. You've watched him play football, right?

His recovery. Which happens a lot because he’s in the wrong positions too often. We aren’t going to square this circle. You think he’s destined for the premiership I think he’s massively overrated and frankly there is no way of squaring that. Let’s just agree to disagree.

[GhostoftheBok]

His recovery. Which happens a lot because he’s in the wrong positions too often. We aren’t going to square this circle. You think he’s destined for the premiership I think he’s massively overrated and frankly there is no way of squaring that. Let’s just agree to disagree.

No, we're not. Though I don't think he's "Destined for the Prem" and it's not his recovery. As Evatt has said to people before, he trusts Santos to "defend half the pitch on his own" when we push a high line. It's tactical.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Can't remember where or when but Prufrock was asking when wad the last time two strikers lasted the distance.

Nearest I can find this season is at Accy, when Dapo did 89 and Dion 88 - but Dapo was LWB in the first half.

I think it's possibly only Pompey at home last spring - when Dion and Bod stayed on - that it's happened in a back three / front two formation. Perhaps fittingly, the only goal we scored was a Sadlier pen.

[Prufrock]

Interesting, thanks! (I think it was earlier in this thread, during the game on Saturday)

As I said at the time, I think it's helped us get around the issues with pressing in a 352. You can change both and still have your 3 subs left. And is also why I think we need to come out of this window with 4 strikers we can rely on (and if one of those is Kacha, another 10 to relieve sexy Kieran). Run the f*ckers silly!

Workrate was mentioned as a weakness of Nlundlu. He's going to have to do it to be a success here I think. It wasn't noticeable on Saturday and hopefully that wasn't just trying to impress early doors.

[sonicthewhite]

We'll soon see what Nlundulu is made of. Dad Bod is out for the season.