A Tutu won't do. V Cambridge at the Unibol Tues Feb 1st, 8-0'clock. 1

[officer_dibble]

Aye, come and have a go if you think yer hard enough!

I think the clean sheet run probably ends Saturday…they get goals, but they don’t half leak them either. Ryan Delaney has been jettisoned so I don’t know who is in their defence. Was lively for Afolayan last time wasn’t it!

[BWFC_Insane]

Distribution isn’t very good either. Not conceded a goal. But I’m in the camp of he doesn’t give me confidence. Does do a lot of organising though in fairness back there.

Didn't put a foot wrong by way of reading and collecting balls into our box last night. He might not give you confidence but he does to our defence, so, you know?!
His distribution does need working on but he's still a boy. Jaaskelainen's distribution needed working on for 15 years.
First goalkeeper in the entire history of the club to keep four clean sheets from debut, and still you're fecking moaning.

I acknowledged that. He’s young. I’m far from saying he’s rubbish. He might be a worldie. We just have to see. But merely was agreeing with two other posters that we aren’t entirely convinced yet.

He’s better than Dixon by a long shot.

[Harry Genshaw]

Well we made hard work of it at times, but you can’t complain with a solid 2-0 win (is it me or is 2-0 the most satisfying winning scoreline in football?)

I think Charles is turning into everyone’s favourite player - has pace, work ethic, good feet, vision and a real desire to make something happen in front of goal. An absolute steal at £300k.

Dapo has benefitted massively from the short break from the starting XI and now looks back to his best. Enjoy him while you can folks because if I think he’ll get a Championship move in the summer.

I still have concerns about our lack of cover at defensive mid and with young Trafford - he doesn’t give me much more confidence than Dixon did. I feel harsh writing that after four clean sheets in a row, but I think he will probably cost us points sometime before the season’s up.

Anyway, four wins on the bounce, 11 goals scored, 0 conceded and 3rd in the form table (last six matches). Life is good

Aye, I did think last night that he'll be off in the summer unless we get promoted. There actually aren't that many Championship clubs throwing the kind of cash around that I would guess it would take to buy Dapo, though. I would suggest £5m+ would be needed.

Aye. A recently relegated Premier league side, may take a punt but if we're looking north of £5m, and we should be if it came to it, there's not many in the division splashing that kind of cash. He seems very happy here, we love him and at least another season with us would be better for his development imo.

[sonicthewhite]

Well we made hard work of it at times, but you can’t complain with a solid 2-0 win (is it me or is 2-0 the most satisfying winning scoreline in football?)

I think Charles is turning into everyone’s favourite player - has pace, work ethic, good feet, vision and a real desire to make something happen in front of goal. An absolute steal at £300k.

Dapo has benefitted massively from the short break from the starting XI and now looks back to his best. Enjoy him while you can folks because if I think he’ll get a Championship move in the summer.

I still have concerns about our lack of cover at defensive mid and with young Trafford - he doesn’t give me much more confidence than Dixon did. I feel harsh writing that after four clean sheets in a row, but I think he will probably cost us points sometime before the season’s up.

Anyway, four wins on the bounce, 11 goals scored, 0 conceded and 3rd in the form table (last six matches). Life is good

Aye, I did think last night that he'll be off in the summer unless we get promoted. There actually aren't that many Championship clubs throwing the kind of cash around that I would guess it would take to buy Dapo, though. I would suggest £5m+ would be needed.

Aye. A recently relegated Premier league side, may take a punt but if we're looking north of £5m, and we should be if it came to it, there's not many in the division splashing that kind of cash. He seems very happy here, we love him and at least another season with us would be better for his development imo.

This I agree with. Even £5m wouldn't be enough for us to cash him in for but £10m+ is a different matter. I think another season with us is completely possible as we don't just love him but I think he loves being at the club just as much. We seem to be building and bonding a group of players together that we haven't seen since the heights of Allardyces reign.

[jmjhb]

I have a feeling we would accept anything above £2M.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Even £5m wouldn't be enough for us to cash him in for but £10m+ is a different matter. I think another season with us is completely possible as we don't just love him but I think he loves being at the club just as much. We seem to be building and bonding a group of players together that we haven't seen since the heights of Allardyces reign.

Promising signs of that, yes. There was a group mentality about Parky's promotion side but this feels properly good. I;'m not sure Dapo would up and leave for the first offer – depends who it is, of course - but I also think we could persuade him that next season might be a very good season indeed here.

[GhostoftheBok]

Even £5m wouldn't be enough for us to cash him in for but £10m+ is a different matter

Ivan Toney didn't cost Brentford that much and he'd had two strong seasons at this level and was clearly a Premier League player in the making.

I do worry that the club will sell Dapo for good money and fans will be horrified because they've built his value up in their minds to crazy levels.

[BWFC_Insane]

Even £5m wouldn't be enough for us to cash him in for but £10m+ is a different matter

Ivan Toney didn't cost Brentford that much and he'd had two strong seasons at this level and was clearly a Premier League player in the making.

I do worry that the club will sell Dapo for good money and fans will be horrified because they've built his value up in their minds to crazy levels.

That has to be the model though. Buy low, sell high.

It’s going to mean losing good players but then we have a fee to reinvest.

[The_Gun]

Even £5m wouldn't be enough for us to cash him in for but £10m+ is a different matter

Ivan Toney didn't cost Brentford that much and he'd had two strong seasons at this level and was clearly a Premier League player in the making.

I do worry that the club will sell Dapo for good money and fans will be horrified because they've built his value up in their minds to crazy levels.

We also sold Gary Madine for £6m, and he is and was nowhere close to being as good as Dapo.

It depends whether spending is going to bounce back to closer to pre-pandemic levels, which I’d say is reasonably likely given the relative stability we have now and the money that’s sloshing about the Prem.

I’d certainly be surprised if Bolton would entertain offers much lower than £5m. We’re not destitute anymore, and are on a strong upward trajectory.

[BWFC_Insane]

Even £5m wouldn't be enough for us to cash him in for but £10m+ is a different matter

Ivan Toney didn't cost Brentford that much and he'd had two strong seasons at this level and was clearly a Premier League player in the making.

I do worry that the club will sell Dapo for good money and fans will be horrified because they've built his value up in their minds to crazy levels.

We also sold Gary Madine for £6m, and he is and was nowhere close to being as good as Dapo.

It depends whether spending is going to bounce back to closer to pre-pandemic levels, which I’d say is reasonably likely given the relative stability we have now and the money that’s sloshing about the Prem.

I’d certainly be surprised if Bolton would entertain offers much lower than £5m. We’re not destitute anymore, and are on a strong upward trajectory.

That’s the trick though. Judging when the fee is right. We’ve held on historically to too many players and then lost them for little to nothing. Or their form deserts them and we lose out that way.

Madine had half a season in the championship at was close to or at double figures for goal scoring in sellers market.

I think now Dapo is at that level but as Gartside once said it doesn’t matter how good you think a player is they are only worth what someone is prepared to pay for them at the time. So you can say we should get 5M but If clubs come in at less than that you’ve got to decide whether keeping him and allowing the contract and value to run down is better than selling. It’s always a balance. And of course factoring in what the player wants and needs too.

We’ve put ourselves in a good position but if someone comes and slaps down £2.5M on the table in the summer with some add ons and makes it clear that’s their best offer then I guess Evatt and FV would have a decision to take. You can say he’s worth more but would he be in a year?

It’s a balancing act and much of it depends on relationships and feelings more than owt else.

I don’t personally think we will necessarily have to sell him in the summer, but we aren’t cash rich and I’m fairly certain that we will have a plan to sell players at the right point to balance the books. And I suspect sometimes that won’t be for what we think they are worth.

[The_Gun]

All very fair points, but in your example above, £2.5m is way less than what getting promotion to the Championship would be worth to us. Of course keeping Dapo doesn't mean we're guaranteed to go up, but we'd have to consider whether we could reinvest the cash to give ourselves a better chance of promotion.

The market dynamics are shifting quite rapidly at the moment, and of course the key factor is having one, or ideally multiple, clubs interested in your player. However, more generally I do think that the combination of attributes Dapo possesses are relatively uncommon, and if he keeps putting the ball in the net it's quite likely he'll have suitors in the summer.

[GhostoftheBok]

A lot will depend on who potential buyers are and whether he's willing to sign a new deal.

If clubs with real money want him he will probably go. If he doesn't want to sign a new deal he will probably go.

If it's middling interest and he's willing to stay then we'll probably up his terms and extend his deal. He's showing he's worth the extra money.

Worth adding, player and club will have a good idea right now what is likely to unfold.

[BWFC_Insane]

All very fair points, but in your example above, £2.5m is way less than what getting promotion to the Championship would be worth to us. Of course keeping Dapo doesn't mean we're guaranteed to go up, but we'd have to consider whether we could reinvest the cash to give ourselves a better chance of promotion.

The market dynamics are shifting quite rapidly at the moment, and of course the key factor is having one, or ideally multiple, clubs interested in your player. However, more generally I do think that the combination of attributes Dapo possesses are relatively uncommon, and if he keeps putting the ball in the net it's quite likely he'll have suitors in the summer.

Yeah but I don’t think you can make decisions on the basis of on field success because the trading part of our sustainability dictates buy low, sell high. We got into the mess we did effectively gambling on onfield success. So for example sign this player, because keeping us in the premiership is worth way more than the fee. Which is true. But then the costs don’t disappear and suddenly player has a bad injury and your fee is into the ether and the manager needs another player to replace him because not doing so is too costly financially if you go down etc…

Since we are in a world where sustainability matters then the judgements are about many factors and you might even have to take a back step on field to allow the model headroom to work. If you think about it any player who you can sell for good money will be one you don’t want to go. So timing and reading the market and of course the individual is critical. Dapo might be the man to fire us up. He also might be sub consciously frustrated at not getting a move and with the best will in the world not be the same force he was.

Every player has a value and there are prices you probably can’t turn down and they will vary over time.

I think we are responsibly run and Markham will be critical in getting these calls right. But I doubt we will avoid losing our better players over the next few years because I suspect that’s the only way FV can continue to manage us. And if will require the right reinvestments.

[GhostoftheBok]

It will also mean showing faith in and patience with young players we have invested in. Like George Johnston...

[BWFC_Insane]

It will also mean showing faith in and patience with young players we have invested in. Like George Johnston...

And to do that you have to play them in roles they are capable of playing. Or sign ones who can play the roles you want.

Johnston is a good example. He’s a left sided centre back in a three or a left back in a four.

He’s not a centre back in a four and realistically never will be.

[Worthy4England]

It will also mean showing faith in and patience with young players we have invested in. Like George Johnston...

And to do that you have to play them in roles they are capable of playing. Or sign ones who can play the roles you want.

Johnston is a good example. He’s a left sided centre back in a three or a left back in a four.

He’s not a centre back in a four and realistically never will be.

Aye - as someone who's been critical of Johnston, he's another that's looking more comfortable in this three. When people say "X is shit", it often has lots unsaid and unarticulated context in that short sentence, because it's not a comprehensive evaluation, character study and assessment of the numbers on their spreadsheet. It's the internet.

"Get rid of that useless fcuker, I'll drive them <wherever> myself" is a completely different kettle of aquatic species.

[GhostoftheBok]

And to do that you have to play them in roles they are capable of playing. Or sign ones who can play the roles you want.

Johnston is a good example. He’s a left sided centre back in a three or a left back in a four.

He’s not a centre back in a four and realistically never will be.

If we are to develop players, as you are correctly advocating, a number of fans are going to have to be more patient with players as we go through that process.

Johnston was and is a young player in his first full season of men's football. He will be fine in a 4 and was doing okay until the squad fell apart around him.

I dread to think what many fans would be saying about Fossey if he was playing right back during the first half of the season. He's well capable of it, but it would be a much steeper learning curve for him than his current position. Same if Morley were deployed in a 4-4-2.

It's good that Johnston has had pressure taken off him by the system and Evatt made the right call, but he was always a talented lad that plenty wrote off after a handful of games. We made an investment in him that we needed to back, but that wasn't given an ounce of consideration by the boo boys.

This really should be a learning opportunity for a few. Sadly it won't be.

[Worthy4England]

It's easy to criticize "a number of fans", "the few", "the boo boys", "plenty", "many fans" but you're going to get commentary on a football forum that's negative when you've played shite. Internet fact. I think it's a pretty appropriate place for that discussion - much rather it to booing them at the match...

[GhostoftheBok]

Actually with "boo boys" I was referring mostly to some folk who sit near me at the UniBol, so it very much was about booing at the match. Any resemblance to posters online, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

[Worthy4England]

Actually with "boo boys" I was referring mostly to some folk who sit near me at the UniBol, so it very much was about booing at the match. Any resemblance to posters online, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

You're only ever 45 minutes from a total shitshow. Never quite got "the advantage" of booing at a game - apart from once after it when Mr Megson's time had long since past!