State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by TANGODANCER » Fri Mar 11, 2022 9:30 am

Santos seems (to me, and based on this) to be slightly to the positive in staying with the Whites..

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by Bruce Rioja » Fri Mar 11, 2022 9:36 am

On the subject of Santos, and although we were collectively brilliant for 40 minutes on Tuesday, well, except for Mr Charles' shooting, I thought Santos was utterly imperious - and absolute joy to watch. Best 40 minutes I've seen him have.
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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by officer_dibble » Fri Mar 11, 2022 10:59 am

He’s so good in that middle spare Centre half position. His pace and strength on the recovery when the wider Centre halves are up the field is great. Still have a nagging doubt about him in a back 4 mind. I do think a Centre half will be on the shopping list - not sure which one of the 3 to replace yet.

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by Mar » Fri Mar 11, 2022 11:45 am

Maybe none of the centre halves need replacing. Johnston looks competent going forward. Mistakes aside which is probably down to our style being prone to mishaps weve got a good variety. I don't suspect that Gordon will be here next season given his lack of involvement lately but I would guess that Johnston could cover the LB role if needs be.

I would suspect that Evatt would be looking for extra centre halves and definitely a goalie in the next transfer window given Trafford is on loan.

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Mar 11, 2022 12:40 pm

Mar wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 11:45 am
Maybe none of the centre halves need replacing. Johnston looks competent going forward. Mistakes aside which is probably down to our style being prone to mishaps weve got a good variety. I don't suspect that Gordon will be here next season given his lack of involvement lately but I would guess that Johnston could cover the LB role if needs be.

I would suspect that Evatt would be looking for extra centre halves and definitely a goalie in the next transfer window given Trafford is on loan.
Interesting. IMO:

• Goalkeeper - wouldn't surprise me if we went back in for Trafford for the season (assuming City renew his contract). He seems happy, they will be happy he's playing (and wary, after Accy, about twisting rather than sticking), and Evatt doesn't seem to be a man with a foot-long list of goalkeeping names. If he comes back, I'd keep Dixon as back-up until his contract expires in summer 2023.

• We definitely need an upgrade on Gordon as competition or at least cover for John, who doesn't have the best injury record. This makes it more difficult, but I would prefer someone who can play at both LWB and LB. Arguably George Johnston can cover LB, not sure about LWB, but it would be good to have a specialist alternative.

• George Johnston is very good, as good as we'll get right now, for the attacking side of the LCB role in a three. Whether we can get a better "defensive" option, and whether Evatt would prioritise it, are two separate questions.

• Evatt has a history of switching systems, and I for one welcome the option to do so. But if we went to a back four, who's in it? Is John good enough at LB? Do any of our centre-backs look as good, or even good enough, in a back four? If not, and given this summer should be about quality rather than quantity, shouldn't we focus on trying to find next-level centre-backs who can do both sides – pass and defend, and play in a three or a two? For me, that's our biggest area for strengthening this summer: cover at least, but preferably competition. If Baptiste retires, we have 3 CBs + Gethin, and there are at least questions raised over two of them (Johnston's defensive ruggedness, Aimson's ability on the ball).

• Gethin has done well – mostly - at RCB in a three. But he's not, IMO, a centre-back in a back four, should we revert. However, I think he would be better at RWB in this team than the one he played in at the start of last season. The Mighty Flanners raised the point that while his main weakness then was uncompleted crosses, he often only had Doyler to aim for. We now tend to have many more options that he could pick out, from pull-backs a la Fossey, to Baka's bursts into the six-yard box. Same applies to Isgrove, I suspect.

• Given those two options, I don't think we'd need to hire a back-up on the right if (big if) Fossey stays. If he doesn't, I wonder if we'll look at Kane Wilson, the FGR RWB whose contract is up in summer, who turns 22 today and who by mid-February had completed 82 dribbles and registered 12 assists (in each case, the most in the entire league). Sounds like an Evatt player and a Markham/FV resale prospect. (Can he play on the left?)

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by Mar » Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:19 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 12:40 pm
Mar wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 11:45 am
Maybe none of the centre halves need replacing. Johnston looks competent going forward. Mistakes aside which is probably down to our style being prone to mishaps weve got a good variety. I don't suspect that Gordon will be here next season given his lack of involvement lately but I would guess that Johnston could cover the LB role if needs be.

I would suspect that Evatt would be looking for extra centre halves and definitely a goalie in the next transfer window given Trafford is on loan.
Interesting. IMO:

• Goalkeeper - wouldn't surprise me if we went back in for Trafford for the season (assuming City renew his contract). He seems happy, they will be happy he's playing (and wary, after Accy, about twisting rather than sticking), and Evatt doesn't seem to be a man with a foot-long list of goalkeeping names. If he comes back, I'd keep Dixon as back-up until his contract expires in summer 2023.

• We definitely need an upgrade on Gordon as competition or at least cover for John, who doesn't have the best injury record. This makes it more difficult, but I would prefer someone who can play at both LWB and LB. Arguably George Johnston can cover LB, not sure about LWB, but it would be good to have a specialist alternative.

• George Johnston is very good, as good as we'll get right now, for the attacking side of the LCB role in a three. Whether we can get a better "defensive" option, and whether Evatt would prioritise it, are two separate questions.

• Evatt has a history of switching systems, and I for one welcome the option to do so. But if we went to a back four, who's in it? Is John good enough at LB? Do any of our centre-backs look as good, or even good enough, in a back four? If not, and given this summer should be about quality rather than quantity, shouldn't we focus on trying to find next-level centre-backs who can do both sides – pass and defend, and play in a three or a two? For me, that's our biggest area for strengthening this summer: cover at least, but preferably competition. If Baptiste retires, we have 3 CBs + Gethin, and there are at least questions raised over two of them (Johnston's defensive ruggedness, Aimson's ability on the ball).

• Gethin has done well – mostly - at RCB in a three. But he's not, IMO, a centre-back in a back four, should we revert. However, I think he would be better at RWB in this team than the one he played in at the start of last season. The Mighty Flanners raised the point that while his main weakness then was uncompleted crosses, he often only had Doyler to aim for. We now tend to have many more options that he could pick out, from pull-backs a la Fossey, to Baka's bursts into the six-yard box. Same applies to Isgrove, I suspect.

• Given those two options, I don't think we'd need to hire a back-up on the right if (big if) Fossey stays. If he doesn't, I wonder if we'll look at Kane Wilson, the FGR RWB whose contract is up in summer, who turns 22 today and who by mid-February had completed 82 dribbles and registered 12 assists (in each case, the most in the entire league). Sounds like an Evatt player and a Markham/FV resale prospect. (Can he play on the left?)
My impression is John would make a decent LB. Going off the Dapo interview he's rated by Dapo as one of the toughest he's come up against, whether there are blinkers on is up for debate but if he's good at LWB attacking and highly rated by someone whose constantly up against several people marking him then I suspect there is an argument for John stepping up another level.

I like the idea of bringing in a replacement for Baps and Fossey. Isgrove would seem the current replacement but who knows whats going on with that injury, seems he's missing at the moment. A replacement for Tutte, the backup for MJ would seemingly be in order. A Karl Henry sort with the ball playing prowess of Campo would be really good, I suspect that's a different challenge to bring in and not one easily resolved.

Just as a thought, has anyone got the list of the players currently registered for elibility to play since the window shut?

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:16 am

No point for me having the world's greatest "going forwards LCB" if they lose you points time and again, by being unable to defend.

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:21 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:16 am
No point for me having the world's greatest "going forwards LCB" if they lose you points time and again, by being unable to defend.
Indeed. For all his promise, Johnston can't be sure of his place next season. There's a world in which he's back-up, perhaps used if we employ the wingback formation against lesser teams. What that means for his ongoing development if we're attempting to gain promotion, we'll have to see.

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:36 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:21 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:16 am
No point for me having the world's greatest "going forwards LCB" if they lose you points time and again, by being unable to defend.
Indeed. For all his promise, Johnston can't be sure of his place next season. There's a world in which he's back-up, perhaps used if we employ the wingback formation against lesser teams. What that means for his ongoing development if we're attempting to gain promotion, we'll have to see.
I'm not writing him off or owt. There's promise and in a game like Sunderland, he's a welcome addition. We need to breed him with Aimson and hope we get a good defender with ball playing acumen rather than the other combo of can't defend, not great going forwards..

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:38 am

For me if we are to challenge for a play off place as a minimum next season we need to be much more solid defensively, and therefore we need 2 new decent quality central defenders - Johnston isn't big enough or strong enough to be a CB, perhaps he could be coached / moved to a DM position ? & Aimson just isn't good enough with the ball at his feet in an Evatt footballing side.

I'm also not convinced by Trafford and I think bringing in an experienced, commanding, vocal keeper should be a priority next season. I think our central midfield options next season with the likes of Morley, Dempsey, Sadlier & Sheehan should be more than adequate.

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by truewhite15 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:31 pm

Can we clone Santos a couple of tines?

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Mar 13, 2022 1:05 pm

truewhite15 wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:31 pm
Can we clone Santos a couple of tines?
Extending the contract of the real one would be a priority.

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by The_Gun » Sun Mar 13, 2022 1:11 pm

I think Santos will leave, and I wouldn’t blame him. A Championship side will probably offer him double what we will, and I’m sure he wants to test himself at a higher level. Hopefully we can get a few quid.

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Mar 13, 2022 1:15 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 1:11 pm
I think Santos will leave, and I wouldn’t blame him. A Championship side will probably offer him double what we will, and I’m sure he wants to test himself at a higher level. Hopefully we can get a few quid.
Wouldn't astonish me, although it would sadden me. He's done alright for a non-league donkey.

If he goes, it really is a defence-focused summer recruitment drive.

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by Prufrock » Sun Mar 13, 2022 1:37 pm

Back 5 has covered up weaknesses and suited some players to the detriment of others. We obviously don't know if there will be exits other than those released (Dapo and Santos seemingly the main two). But I think January was emergency treatment to fix the two biggest issues, no midfield, and not enough goal threat. I think we've done that now to the extent we can look upwards. I'd like to see a squad next year that looks something like this:

GK: SIGNING (not against Trafford but he's not like Marlon in that we could get him on a perm and resell later so less bothered), Dixon

RB: Jones, Fossey (/ SIGNING)
LB: John, Johnstone,
CB: Santos, SIGNING, SIGNING, Aimson (/SIGNING)

CM: Lee, MJ, Morley, Demsey, Sheehan, SIGNING

RW: Kacha, Xav (/SIGNING/)
LW: Dapo, Sadlier
CF: Charles, DadBod, Baka

With some flexibility in the front line (Sadlier can play either side, DadBod can play wide).
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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by The_Gun » Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:14 pm

Twitter rumours this morning that Sheff U and Forest are interested in Santos. I think he's likely to leave, which would mean we'd need to do some serious rebuilding in the centre of defence during the summer.

What would be an acceptable fee given he'll only have a year to run on his contract? Maybe £2-3m if there are multiple clubs bidding?

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:32 pm

Couple of million will get Santos. He’s got aspects of his game to work on if he is going to be a good championship player in my opinion. Becoming a threat in the opposition box is one.

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:08 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:32 pm
Couple of million will get Santos. He’s got aspects of his game to work on if he is going to be a good championship player in my opinion. Becoming a threat in the opposition box is one.
There are plenty of very good Champo defenders who don't trouble the scorers.

For instance, last season Norwich (with a largely Prem-experienced squad) won the Champo and scored 75 goals. Per Soccerbase, players with a (D)-for-defender description got a total of 5 goals, and 2 each came from full-backs Max Aarons and Xavi Quintilla. The other came from Grant Hanley, who always makes me suspect a village somewhere has lost its idiot but appears to have carved out a 350-game career in the top two tiers without ever scoring more than two league goals a season. Alongside him, Ben Gibson didn't score; he's played 230-odd top-two-tier games and scored five.

Not just Norwich, either. Watford went up automatically; of their centre-backs, Craig Cathcart scored 1 in 25 league appearances, Christian Kabasele 1 in 20, Francisco Sierralta 1 in 26, William Troost-Ekong 1 in 32, Ben Wilmot 1 in 25.

I'm not missing anybody out to suit my point, either: I can't see any other goals scored for either team – successful, promoted teams – by defenders who aren't full-backs. Sure, for his height and presence Santos should do better up there, but I do think we were truly spoiled in that respect by the Morais-Wheavers production line. Their goal returns were anomalous. Per footballcritic.com only two Champo centre-backs have scored more than three this season (Aden Flint 5, Curtis Davies 4). Nobody in that division got more than 5 last season, either. Even in the clunkier League One, no centre-back's scored more than five this season, last season or the season before. As I say, we were spoiled.

Santos does have holes in his game, though. Concentration (and risk/reward) is one, but also what you might call emotional management. It's been noted that if he gets rattled early on – even by a non-leaguer like Scott Quigley - he can soon lose the grace under pressure that we all love him for. Doesn't happen often - but it might happen a lot more in the Champo.

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by jmjhb » Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:47 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:14 pm
Twitter rumours this morning that Sheff U and Forest are interested in Santos. I think he's likely to leave, which would mean we'd need to do some serious rebuilding in the centre of defence during the summer.

What would be an acceptable fee given he'll only have a year to run on his contract? Maybe £2-3m if there are multiple clubs bidding?
The only source for that is an anonymous Twitter account

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Re: State of the Squad 2 - This Time it's Personnel

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:13 pm

Not sure (can anyone be?) if I.E. really wants Santos to stay, or is he bigging him up in an auctioneer role by his comments? Keeping in mind our financial situation, could we replace quality that others seem to want unless we too spend expansively? If the big fella gets a couple of goals before season ends... then again, what does Santos really want?
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