Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:14 am

:Jedi:
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:46 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:18 am
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:52 am
Set pieces. For all the talk about how bad we are at them, it's really being attacking we've been terrible until tonight. We were shocking defending them the start of last year but we fixed it and have been plenty solid until tonight. Yet tonight with 3 centre backs, 2 6'+ strikers and MJ they just didn't do their jobs.

Take set pieces out and it was a very even game on a dreadful pitch that we probably edged.

But, you know, set pieces count.

3-0 down after 17 minutes with that clogger on a hat trick. Pathetic.

Also, I love Marlon, but anyone who thinks he's close to being our best player is off their head. He's got great attributes, he's a cult hero in the making, and I hope we sign him, but the boy is miles away from the finished article. He has no football brain. Got other things to mean he's a very good player at this level regardless but the boys a space cadet.

But yeah, tough to take much from that beyond we can't defend set pieces like that. Hopefully it's just a bad day at the office. Need 6 points from the next two now.
Couldn’t disagree more on Fossey. The lad does things at a pace the rest of our side can only dream of. That’s what separates him from the crowd and why he could play at a much higher level than the rest.

The run, cross and control for the winner on Saturday is a prime example. Nobody else in our team can do that.

We know defensively he’s not the greatest but he does enough of a job there. First header is key and we lost way too many of those.
I know you do because you've got some weird blind crush on him :D

I mean it just isn't true on Saturday. It was a good run and pick out (though if we're being picky which we need to be given the context there was no need for it to be wanged in at shin height. If you're talking "quality" the bit in that move was the ball from Jones. Incisive, inch perfectly weighted. Fossey did his bit well but there was nothing wow about it.

And there are plenty of lads with pace that don't get to the top. His pace makes him a better player but he relies on it too much to be a top player. There was a ball Morley played on Saturday, received from John let it run across his body, blindingly obvious he was looking for the big switch as soon as it went into him. Fossey was stood still, on his heels and didn't twig it was on and set off until the ball was in the air. Ended up giving the Oxford LB a good 8 yard start. And he got there. He looked great and got a good cross in. But even a league up he gets nowhere near that ball because he doesn't have the anticipation.

And you know, he can't defend. See goal 1 last night.

I'm not slagging him, he's an excellent player at this level and I'm glad we've got him, and hope we keep him. I suspect he would probably even be a decent player a league up (though only as a wing back and he'd have to do a lot more defending). But he is miles away from our player with the highest ceiling.
Well I respectfully disagree. It was clear from day one how his pace, direct running and ability to actually be effective at pace first time transformed us.

The outlet we lacked all first half of the season was here. And someone who could put a first time cross in without taking 15 touches and then passing it backwards.

I think Charles is also very good and an improvement in this regard but whether he’s as effective a striker higher up is to be seen. Whereas I’ve no doubt Fossey could play wing back in the top end of the championship and probably higher.

It does require a wingback system absolutely. But I mean Liverpool have a great right back who can’t really defend brilliantly but is superb going forwards. Relative to the levels Fossey is basically that.

And the ball he put in at full pelt Saturday was superb and we don’t have a single other player who could have done that at the pace he did first time. Or we don’t have one who would. Bar maybe Charles.

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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by The_Gun » Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:51 am

Insano, weren’t you bemoaning our soft penalty box defending a few pages back? Fossey was at fault for at least goals one and three. You can’t have it both ways - if you’re saying that we need to be able to grind out matches like last night’s, then you also have to accept that we can’t be carrying defensive liabilities like Fossey.

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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:52 am

I think defensive liability is a bit harsh!

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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by The_Gun » Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:01 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:52 am
I think defensive liability is a bit harsh!
Yeah, that's probably an exaggeration, but he did lose his man for Burton's first and third goals, so if Insano wants to highlight our deficiencies when it comes to penalty box defending, then he must accept that Fossey is one of the main culprits.

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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:06 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:51 am
Insano, weren’t you bemoaning our soft penalty box defending a few pages back? Fossey was at fault for at least goals one and three. You can’t have it both ways - if you’re saying that we need to be able to grind out matches like last night’s, then you also have to accept that we can’t be carrying defensive liabilities like Fossey.
If you think he’s at fault for goal three then I’ve no idea what to tell you….

Goal one he does switch off and lose his man. But once you lose that first header you are in big trouble so he’s jointly at fault with Bakayoko.

You can have it both ways because I don’t make it Fossey’s main job to be winning headers in the box, we’ve three centre halves for that and two massive strikers. And none of them did the job. Indeed the third goal Johnston was poor when the ball came back across. Too weak. He’s a centre half.

Fossey adds the dynamic outlet that we simply haven’t had until he came. That’s what a player like him adds and I will take that he’s not as good defensively and we’ve said that from day one as soon as I saw him. More Trent Alexander Arnold than Wan Bissaka If you like but I’m absolutely fine with that. Id play him right wing if we went 4 at the back ever.

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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:50 pm

Just a few minutes before their first goal they had a throw in from the same position. I was staggered that their chap out jumped Bakayoko who appeared to be in diving boots but fortunately we got away with it that time. For it to happen again a few minutes later that then led to the goal was bordering on unforgivable.
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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:02 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:46 am
I know you do because you've got some weird blind crush on him :D
Well we couldn't be having that Charles made any sort of impact after spending pages pointing out he was a pub level clogger who had nowt about him. So we gotta go "all-in" on Flossie, being the single reason why we're heading for the Champions League. Do keep up! :mrgreen:

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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:41 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:02 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:46 am
I know you do because you've got some weird blind crush on him :D
Well we couldn't be having that Charles made any sort of impact after spending pages pointing out he was a pub level clogger who had nowt about him. So we gotta go "all-in" on Flossie, being the single reason why we're heading for the Champions League. Do keep up! :mrgreen:
I never once said he was no good. I said he didn’t suit the system we were playing. And yeah I think that’s pretty obvious now.

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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:24 pm

In other top-ten news, Sheff Wed have postponed their game v Accy for a waterlogged pitch. Like, five minutes ago.

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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:56 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:41 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:02 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:46 am
I know you do because you've got some weird blind crush on him :D
Well we couldn't be having that Charles made any sort of impact after spending pages pointing out he was a pub level clogger who had nowt about him. So we gotta go "all-in" on Flossie, being the single reason why we're heading for the Champions League. Do keep up! :mrgreen:
I never once said he was no good. I said he didn’t suit the system we were playing. And yeah I think that’s pretty obvious now.
Well, I guess...
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:27 pm
Charles...nowhere near enough or good enough
:grin:

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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by Prufrock » Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:08 pm

Success in one system proves he wouldn't suit another.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:15 pm

Fossey is a decent player. He's neither "ready for the Premier League" (as seen on twitter) nor a footballing dunce.

He's a talented, physically capable lad who plays like he is 18, because he's never played a full season of men's football.

He isn't mentally where you'd expect a player of his age to be, but then a player of his age should have a couple of seasons under his belt at least.

Dapo and Johnston are (were) in similar developmental positions. It's a shame for Johnston that he wasn't initially given the same leeway as the other two.

None of us know how well Fossey's understanding of the game will develop, but it certainly will improve over time.

He is most certainly not a League One Trent Alexander-Arnold. Using that comparison to excuse his poor defending won't fly.

It is massively hypocritical to ignore Fossey's obvious failings when you use them to beat other players and to ask people to view the player's whole contribution whilst saying that argument isn't valid for players you don't like. Then again, this is a football forum, so do carry on.

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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:25 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:15 pm
Fossey is a decent player. He's neither "ready for the Premier League" (as seen on twitter) nor a footballing dunce.

He's a talented, physically capable lad who plays like he is 18, because he's never played a full season of men's football.

He isn't mentally where you'd expect a player of his age to be, but then a player of his age should have a couple of seasons under his belt at least.

Dapo and Johnston are (were) in similar developmental positions. It's a shame for Johnston that he wasn't initially given the same leeway as the other two.

None of us know how well Fossey's understanding of the game will develop, but it certainly will improve over time.

He is most certainly not a League One Trent Alexander-Arnold. Using that comparison to excuse his poor defending won't fly.

It is massively hypocritical to ignore Fossey's obvious failings when you use them to beat other players and to ask people to view the player's whole contribution whilst saying that argument isn't valid for players you don't like. Then again, this is a football forum, so do carry on.
Fossey is excellent at the role we need him to play. When he was a right back, if you recall I raised doubts that his defensive ability was up to it. So it’s nothing to do with ignoring deficiencies. He’s simply outstanding at the stuff we need him to mainly be doing which is driving forwards and offering and outlet and getting supply into the box.

If we play him as a right back I will point out why he cannot play there. But I’d never have him as a right back. I’d have him out wide in a wing back role or the front three.

So yes switching off at the back post wasn’t brilliant and was annoying and perhaps that’s why he won’t play at a higher level but personally I’d overlook that as simply I wouldn’t be asking him to do that much. But I wouldn’t overlook centre halves who can’t win their aerial duels regularly for example. Because that’s a massive part of their game.

Fossey has three big things. Raw pace. Power. And directness. Three things that I think are essential in any player in his position who want it make it. Three things above more or less anything else because they can’t be trained.

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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:54 pm

If you applied the same rules to the rest of the squad that you apply to Fossey you might like a lot more players.

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Re: Evatt em. Skid marks at the Pirelli. V Burton Albion Away, Tues. 15th Feb.1945.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:03 am

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:54 pm
If you applied the same rules to the rest of the squad that you apply to Fossey you might like a lot more players.
I like plenty of players.

If others in the squad showed the intent and dynamism and speed of Fossey no doubt I’d be more excited watching them. He goes for the jugular more often than not. And I appreciate that. Especially when prior to his arrival we had mainly players who take too many touches and go backwards too easily.

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