Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Mar 20, 2022 6:03 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:04 pm
How can you not talk goals, for a striker? It's a bit like only talking attacking attributes in defenders...
Because the conversation isn’t he’s useless get rid. It’s about why a lad with pace, power and who has hit a goal scoring form like this isn’t making more of a first team impact.

That’s what others were discussing, his overall ability. I’m happy with him. More than happy. Would I guarantee he’s going to fire us to promotion next season? No. But I absolutely would think he will make a contribution.

He’s not quite there for me overall. And that’s a different thing than he’s rubbish replace him. It’s just for what he is and can offer I think there is something missing. Of course if he backs up his scoring form and this becomes his ‘new normal’ who on earth cares? But that’s an if rather than a given.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Mar 20, 2022 6:47 pm

Balance innit. If he had sharper wiring to go with his goals, the he's probably not playing L1 for Bolton, tbf.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:22 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 6:47 pm
Balance innit. If he had sharper wiring to go with his goals, the he's probably not playing L1 for Bolton, tbf.
This is one of many things said during this debate with which I agree. Even when the sayers appear to disagree with each other.

I don’t think we’ve got a better striker than Baka for getting goals in the eight or ten yards directly in front of goal. Brommers says all his goals have been inside 12 yards and that sounds exactly right. He gambles, he gets in there, he’s awkward. He wins more aerial duels than Bod (3.6 per 90 minutes to 2.6).

But he’s not perfect. The stats suggest he puts a higher proportion of his shots off-target than his peers. Per 90 minutes, he averages 2.3 efforts and puts 1.1 off-target; that’s almost half. For comparison, Dapo averages 3.8 efforts, 1.3 off-target; Bod 2.8 and 1.0; Charles 2.5 and 0.9.

But it’s not just about stats. BWFCi says “I wish he was a bit more natural” and I think I know what he means. I simply don’t know from one touch to the next what we’re going to get from Baka. If every touch was awful then OK, he’s not a capital-f Footballer – but sometimes he’s fine. The inconsistency of his quality of touch, and frequently his awareness of where his team-mates might be now or about to run into (the “between the ears” stuff) – that’s what brings down his effectiveness, IMO, particularly in an Evatt team that’s all about movement and awareness. Put simply, I trust Bod (and Dapo and Charles and Kachunga) to see the play better, to be more in tune with their team-mates and manager.

Perhaps as an illustration of this, Baka’s listed by Transfermarkt as having three assists, but a little dig into these raises questions and eyebrows. One was against Sunderland, and it turns out they mean he had the last touch before Batth’s own-goal. One was getting fouled for Sheehan’s pen at home to Crewe. The other - actually the first one - was his cross at Plough Lane that was turned in by Dapo, but I rather suspect even that was an overhit attempt to find Doyler. (Maybe I'm being harsh – see for yourself at 1.10 below - but I haven't seen him create much for others since.)



Nicko suggests he’s another Gnahoua – “an average player benefitting from being introduced deep into the second half when we're either chasing a result or comfortably on top” – and while that sounds harsh, it makes a lot of sense to me. Having watched him, I can’t say I’m astonished that Coventry traded up, or indeed that this is Baka’s best ever season for goals (he scored 4 the season they went up). His previous best was 2016/17 at Walsall, when he scored 10 – but 6 of them were in the Sherpa Van Trophy, including 3 against Grimsby, 1 against Oldham and 1 against Leicester U23.

It’s a similar story with his goals this season. He’s scored 11, which is lovely. One was in the season opener against MK Dons, and he also scored the winner at Oxford. Apart from that, all his goals have come against teams currently 17th or lower – Cambridge, Lincoln, Wombles, Morecambe, Crewe (x2), Stockport and Liverpool U23 (x2). Maybe he’s not so much a Gnahoua – who only actually scored twice, at Exeter and Mansfield - as a Shaun Miller, who scored against Southend (who finished 23rd), Barrow (21st) and Grimsby (24th).

Nicko also says “but he keeps scoring and I can't criticise that. Long may it continue.” Couldn’t agree more. We need someone who can score against those lesser teams, because we can sometimes struggle as a team - at least this time Baka helped us beat the 24th-placed team: last season Miller’s goal was a mere consolation at Grimsby. Baka’s a great Plan B and it’s working. He's very far from the only Wanderer to struggle against top-8 teams this season; whether he can help us go from a middle-third team to a top-third team, I don’t know – but as we found with Gnahoua and Miller, having options off the bench helps a whole lot.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by brommers95 » Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:32 pm

Brilliantly put DSB 👏🏻

It’s striking looking at Baka’s shot map where his goals have come from. The below was correct as of the 24th Feb, so you can add his goal from yesterday on to it as well - another just inside the six yard box. What a brilliant poacher he’s turning out to be for us.

ABCB18A6-1C11-4E7D-848A-4D7955085BFB.png
ABCB18A6-1C11-4E7D-848A-4D7955085BFB.png (34.06 KiB) Viewed 899 times

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:57 am

Bakayoko is able to find spaces in crowded penalty areas. The fact he's scored most of his goals against lower sides is an positive, in my view. It's a sign he can score against those compact sides we struggle to break down.

A striker who can come in and score 10-15 a season as a squad player is valuable to any side.

We've 7 games left for Evatt and Markham to have a good look at our forward options and assure themselves they've got enough up there to win this division next season (which will be the aim). Obviously the transfer planning and discussions with targets will have been ongoing for some time, but once they are certain of the division we'll be in their plans will solidify.

Rather than just focusing on Baka as an individual, it's worth having a look at how he fits in as one of four striking options.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:43 am

The "who he's scored against" bit is interesting (sorta). Dion has scored 6. 2 against Sunderland in a walk-over, the others being Shrewsbury, Charlton, Burton and Wimbledon. Quite a collection of lower mid-table teams all below us. Like Baka, only 2 against teams above us - with more time on the pitch than Baka...(Not a huge criticism of Dion, who I rate), but you get the drift.

Dad Bod, Wimbledon and Gillingham?

This notion of "discounting" goals doesn't sit well.

I don't think Baka would necessarily make the trip one stop up (then again not sure about Dad Bod either yet)...but as part of a rotating L1 strike force, he's fine for me.

As for where he scores them, I've lost count of the times I've said "where's some fcuker on the end of that?" this season (and last) as a ball flashes across the six yard line. Having someone turning them in, is a bonus as Brommers says. Especially if they can carve it out against low block teams.

I guess on the good side, if he were to go, we might get a couple of quid...

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:05 am

I suppose where I’m at is that every one of our players is upgradeable - we’re 11th in the league and want to be top next season. There’s an argument that the ones here since January 31 have performed higher than 11th, but I’d not be upset if we signed better players than any of them in the summer.

So if we can find a better striker than Baka he’s in our starting team and he’s got more than 11 goals by the end of March.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:46 am

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:57 am
Bakayoko is able to find spaces in crowded penalty areas. The fact he's scored most of his goals against lower sides is an positive, in my view. It's a sign he can score against those compact sides we struggle to break down.

A striker who can come in and score 10-15 a season as a squad player is valuable to any side.

We've 7 games left for Evatt and Markham to have a good look at our forward options and assure themselves they've got enough up there to win this division next season (which will be the aim). Obviously the transfer planning and discussions with targets will have been ongoing for some time, but once they are certain of the division we'll be in their plans will solidify.

Rather than just focusing on Baka as an individual, it's worth having a look at how he fits in as one of four striking options.
Charles, Dapo, Baka and Dad Bod are enough up front. I think there are questions about what we have out wide if we went to a front three and the number 10 role. Those are the attacking areas we look lighter in but it depends on the system. Focus really should be midfield and back three and wingbacks if the 3 at the back system is kept.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Mar 21, 2022 10:05 am

officer_dibble wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:05 am
I suppose where I’m at is that every one of our players is upgradeable

In theory, certainly. I think we've a few who are next to impossible to meaningfully improve on with our (presumed) budgets. With the work we've done in January you have to believe we will see serious improvements in the squad and in the 11. As Insane said just now, you'd imagine the focus will be on defence and midfield; but if there's a player out there who can fire us up the divisions by terrorising defences Evatt and Markham will want him.

I think a GK, RWB, CB and 10 are the obvious issues right now; but we're bound to have at least one "wow" signing we didn't see coming. Or at least I very much hope so.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:24 am

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 10:05 am
officer_dibble wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:05 am
I suppose where I’m at is that every one of our players is upgradeable

In theory, certainly. I think we've a few who are next to impossible to meaningfully improve on with our (presumed) budgets. With the work we've done in January you have to believe we will see serious improvements in the squad and in the 11. As Insane said just now, you'd imagine the focus will be on defence and midfield; but if there's a player out there who can fire us up the divisions by terrorising defences Evatt and Markham will want him.

I think a GK, RWB, CB and 10 are the obvious issues right now; but we're bound to have at least one "wow" signing we didn't see coming. Or at least I very much hope so.
If we are playing this system or plan to then a more dynamic and versatile MJ is needed. Someone who covers ground better. Has an engine. Has the same physicality but can get round the pitch faster.

I think that would be vital. I think both wing backs positions need looking at. John Is fine but I’d like a more progressive and just more physically dominant option. John has good delivery but when we need to really get at teams I feel we lack penetration down the left.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:46 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:24 am
I think both wing backs positions need looking at. John Is fine but I’d like a more progressive and just more physically dominant option. John has good delivery but when we need to really get at teams I feel we lack penetration down the left.
Interesting. I'd say John's weakness is more going the other way. LWB suits his skillset but the better teams can still get behind him. But either way, we need a summer upgrade on Liam Gordon as cover or competition.

And as I say, I would like someone who can play both LB and LWB. Given Evatt's history of (successfully) changing systems midstream, and his quotes last week* that he wants to be able to do it mid-game, it would be daft to sign someone who can only comfortably play one of those positions.

*Those quotes, from the BN
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... ace-crewe/
It's a really good weapon [being able to move between formations]. We can even flip between the two formations in-game without me having to fundamentally change the way we build. We can build with four, we can build with three, we can stick three on the last line and move and rotate. We have some real good options.

And that's the next stage of our development. We have lots of work to do and I’m already looking forward to pre-season. I know what we need to do, it’s just going to take time to get us there. It's really exciting. We have some really, really good players and I am pleased with where we’re at.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Mar 21, 2022 12:16 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:46 am
And as I say, I would like someone who can play both LB and LWB. Given Evatt's history of (successfully) changing systems midstream, and his quotes last week* that he wants to be able to do it mid-game, it would be daft to sign someone who can only comfortably play one of those positions.
That'll be us signing a Left Winger, then! :-)

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Mar 21, 2022 12:30 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:46 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:24 am
I think both wing backs positions need looking at. John Is fine but I’d like a more progressive and just more physically dominant option. John has good delivery but when we need to really get at teams I feel we lack penetration down the left.
Interesting. I'd say John's weakness is more going the other way. LWB suits his skillset but the better teams can still get behind him. But either way, we need a summer upgrade on Liam Gordon as cover or competition.

And as I say, I would like someone who can play both LB and LWB. Given Evatt's history of (successfully) changing systems midstream, and his quotes last week* that he wants to be able to do it mid-game, it would be daft to sign someone who can only comfortably play one of those positions.

*Those quotes, from the BN
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... ace-crewe/
It's a really good weapon [being able to move between formations]. We can even flip between the two formations in-game without me having to fundamentally change the way we build. We can build with four, we can build with three, we can stick three on the last line and move and rotate. We have some real good options.

And that's the next stage of our development. We have lots of work to do and I’m already looking forward to pre-season. I know what we need to do, it’s just going to take time to get us there. It's really exciting. We have some really, really good players and I am pleased with where we’re at.
I don’t disagree and I like John. But Fossey gave us a dimension going forwards John doesn’t have. And I’d say that at times at our best most stuff would build down the right.

John is a nice footballer but he doesn’t challenge the outside enough in my view. A stronger and quicker wingback or winger converted there might. I do think that if you ask me how we improve we buy physical specimens with pace. Because I do think that’s still what we lack. We saw how a strong running super quick and direct Fossey transformed us and I think we need more of that in key positions tbh. It’s a bit generic so not very helpful but watching us we’ve got it up front in buckets. It’s just elsewhere. Power, pace and some direct running. That would be my recipe. Then you can fit in the technical qualities of Morley, Dempsey etc.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:33 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:24 am
If we are playing this system or plan to then a more dynamic and versatile MJ is needed. Someone who covers ground better. Has an engine. Has the same physicality but can get round the pitch faster.
A more dynamic and versatile bloke than this guy?..
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:25 pm
I’m also going to reiterate. Our best player by a mile is MJ Williams. Looks class as we’ve stepped up against better teams whereas others are showing maybe why they are playing at Bolton.
Not having a pop at you Insane. It's interesting how the team has evolved this season and as better players have come in, how those who previously looked irreplaceable now look almost surplus to requirements.
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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:39 pm

I think I read a bit from an interview with MJ where he said that he’d struggled to get over Covid and his injury disrupted his season, accepting his turn of the year form wasn’t that great. That being said I’m more open to a team where he isn’t first name on the team sheet now.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:39 pm

MJ has his limitations and they were ruthlessly exposed when he was the only one minding the shop in the autumn 4-3-3. He's still well worth having around, and in the right system he could help us win some promotion six-pointers next season.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:19 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:39 pm
MJ has his limitations and they were ruthlessly exposed when he was the only one minding the shop in the autumn 4-3-3. He's still well worth having around, and in the right system he could help us win some promotion six-pointers next season.
I think in this auction market league, the form book being so unpredictable, the same might be said for quite a few players. If proven top class they move on/up and there's no guarantee we'll even have the same squad when next season starts. Also, the loanees might get the reveille bugle to head home. Unpredictable doesn't do it.
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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:24 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:24 am
If we are playing this system or plan to then a more dynamic and versatile MJ is needed. Someone who covers ground better. Has an engine. Has the same physicality but can get round the pitch faster.
A more dynamic and versatile bloke than this guy?..
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:25 pm
I’m also going to reiterate. Our best player by a mile is MJ Williams. Looks class as we’ve stepped up against better teams whereas others are showing maybe why they are playing at Bolton.
Not having a pop at you Insane. It's interesting how the team has evolved this season and as better players have come in, how those who previously looked irreplaceable now look almost surplus to requirements.
It’s a different system. It just doesn’t suit Williams to play in a midfield two. And regardless we need a player of that type anyway. MJ is superb when he can sit in, protecting a back four. But we aren’t playing that system now.

Again not saying he’s rubbish get rid. But it’s where we lack a certain type. If we revert to a 433 or 4123 then we need cover for him.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:25 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:19 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:39 pm
MJ has his limitations and they were ruthlessly exposed when he was the only one minding the shop in the autumn 4-3-3. He's still well worth having around, and in the right system he could help us win some promotion six-pointers next season.
I think in this auction market league, the form book being so unpredictable, the same might be said for quite a few players. If proven top class they move on/up and there's no guarantee we'll even have the same squad when next season starts. Also, the loanees might get the reveille bugle to head home. Unpredictable doesn't do it.
Well quite. If they were perfect they wouldn't be here for long, if at all. Even on loan - if you recall, some of us were hopeful we could borrow the rags' Anthony Elanga; he's played in their most recent 11 Premier League games.

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Re: Back on track or up the Junction.? V Crewe away, Sat19th Mar. 3-0'clock.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:27 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:24 pm
It’s a different system. It just doesn’t suit Williams to play in a midfield two.
Played well in a deep two last season and I think he'd be fine there this season, if perhaps not offering the same amount going forward. In fact I'd go so far as to say he'd be better as one of two "6" deep-lyers than as one, where our midfield can be (and often has been) more easily bypassed.

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