High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:37 am

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:53 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:43 pm
From what I've seen, M.J. was both slow to react and too easily muscled off the ball. I'm no authority on him, but thought he was better than this; what happened?
This is the issue with saying "he just doesn't suit the system." That's 100% true, but he's also taking woeful touches, not reading tackles come in on him and getting bullied.

He's miles off it right now and we need to see a lot more from him.
He’s not been as good since his injury. I think it’s a combination of that and also the system and personnel in midfield suiting him less than before.

There are a few with significant dips in form in a similar vein of late. Charles, Dapo, Williams.

It happens and can’t always be explained. But we also have to keep in mind that Dapo and MJ were asked to prop us up for a long time almost single handedly and we all said in September and October that MJ was going to be shagged the back end of the season and that Dapo wasn’t likely to maintain his form all season.

If we can find a stronger and quicker version of MJ I think that would be very helpful for next season. He still would remain a very useful squad option. But Wigan showed that we do need that physical hard running presence in midfield as for the first thirty minutes they ran all over us and on another day game was done and dusted in that spell. If Evatt wants to make our press as effective as Wigans then it’s clear what we need.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:12 am

We need to adopt the "Jackal" approach and attack the ball in packs when the opposition have it. Almost every team we play in this league do it, particularly when ever Dapo has the ball. We still insist on trying to direct players where we think they should be. Football without the ball is a fallacy. The game is about a ball.
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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:15 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:37 am
There are a few with significant dips in form in a similar vein of late. Charles, Dapo, Williams.

It happens and can’t always be explained.
I'm not being overly critical of MJ or anyone else; but if they want to be relied-upon first-teamers next season they can't be crap week after week, regardless of how good they were prior to that.

That goes for any player, front to back. You can have a couple of bad games back to back, that's entirely normal. If you have a couple of bad months you are no longer reliable.

The staff will have a much better idea of what is going on with each individual.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:50 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:15 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:37 am
There are a few with significant dips in form in a similar vein of late. Charles, Dapo, Williams.

It happens and can’t always be explained.
I'm not being overly critical of MJ or anyone else; but if they want to be relied-upon first-teamers next season they can't be crap week after week, regardless of how good they were prior to that.

That goes for any player, front to back. You can have a couple of bad games back to back, that's entirely normal. If you have a couple of bad months you are no longer reliable.

The staff will have a much better idea of what is going on with each individual.
Indeed. We need appropriate cover in the squad for loss of form. And not just rubbish back ups, we need a squad with the quality in, if that means a smaller squad with some utility then that’s what we must do.

But can’t carry them too long if they aren’t performing. Having said that there were worse performers than any of these three Saturday and those need addressing before these.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:12 pm

I think that's now where we are. I don't think anyone we're retaining next year is useless. I'd maybe prefer a better player than 'x' or 'y', but I think they're all League One players. Some of them will slip to be the support act next season and new faces will come into the "ideal for big games" 11. I can image we'll sign one or two squad players due to budgets, but I think most players who come in will be yet another step up. That's my hope, at least.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:27 pm

Some more Pies and Pasties""atmosphere" footage here to enjoy.. :oyea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGsjfvzffl8
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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:47 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:12 pm
I think that's now where we are. I don't think anyone we're retaining next year is useless. I'd maybe prefer a better player than 'x' or 'y', but I think they're all League One players. Some of them will slip to be the support act next season and new faces will come into the "ideal for big games" 11. I can image we'll sign one or two squad players due to budgets, but I think most players who come in will be yet another step up. That's my hope, at least.
Aye it needs a touch of realism. I think some folks were expecting the form we had last year after Christmas repeat itself and that was always unlikely to occur, but whilst we're full of self doubt (and I think the next two game might give us a better view as they're against decent oppo), we've managed 2 less points than Wigan since Jan 1 and we're currently 6th if the league started Jan 1. So a bit "borderline Top 6" but it feels more a bit of tweaking than wholesale slaughter.

MKD have been the beast since 1 Jan. But we've got more points than Oxford, Ipswich, Portsmouth, Wycombe, Sunderland....

We can't give them 23 game head start like this year, next.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by Prufrock » Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:24 pm

Two centre backs and a LB (or ideally IMO three centre backs and convert George), replace any outgoings, and then look for any quality we can add elsewhere. Think we'd be right in the mix then.

As good as Fossey has been I'd be keeping my eye on Kane Wilson who's out of contract. Doubt we'd be the only takers (inc Forest Green assuming they come up) but defo worth the ask.

And I like Trafford but I'd rather have a more experienced GK who was "ours". What happened with Hladky at Ipswich?!
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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:33 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:24 pm
Two centre backs and a LB (or ideally IMO three centre backs and convert George), replace any outgoings, and then look for any quality we can add elsewhere. Think we'd be right in the mix then.

As good as Fossey has been I'd be keeping my eye on Kane Wilson who's out of contract. Doubt we'd be the only takers (inc Forest Green assuming they come up) but defo worth the ask.

And I like Trafford but I'd rather have a more experienced GK who was "ours". What happened with Hladky at Ipswich?!
We need some real pace and thrust adding in. We don’t have enough of it. Without Fossey it’s glaring. Nobody can stretch sides or beat their man. Lack of pace beyond Charles is a problem.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by Prufrock » Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:13 pm

I wouldn't say it's glaring. We've got enough. We're not a team you can defend on the half way line easily, or just chip in behind. But I certainly wouldn't be against adding more.
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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:07 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:13 pm
I wouldn't say it's glaring. We've got enough. We're not a team you can defend on the half way line easily, or just chip in behind. But I certainly wouldn't be against adding more.
It’s not direct. Our wide men don’t beat their man and continually stretch teams on the outside. You need that injection of really direct, effective and strong pace to provide that consistent outlet.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by Mar » Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:38 am

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:24 pm
Two centre backs and a LB (or ideally IMO three centre backs and convert George), replace any outgoings, and then look for any quality we can add elsewhere. Think we'd be right in the mix then.

As good as Fossey has been I'd be keeping my eye on Kane Wilson who's out of contract. Doubt we'd be the only takers (inc Forest Green assuming they come up) but defo worth the ask.

And I like Trafford but I'd rather have a more experienced GK who was "ours". What happened with Hladky at Ipswich?!
Hladky would be a great shout. Conceded 18 in 14 (4 clean sheets) and then was dropped in favour of Walton who is younger and has conceded 25 in 29 (13 clean sheets). Looks like the decision was the correct one but then again Hladky was part of the stuttering start Ipswich had before they started keeping a better defensive record. Oddly enough Walton made his debut in our 5-2 win so they must've seen something there to give him a second try.

Walton was on loan from Brighton but has seemingly been made permanent so there is an argument to say Hladky would be surplus to requirements. I'm sure he'll have his suitors but given he was at Salford he might appreciate knowing the north west and fancy a return, East Anglia is quite a different area.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:15 am

Goalkeepers still Evatt's blind spot IMO. Interesting to see what happens this summer.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:22 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:15 am
Goalkeepers still Evatt's blind spot IMO. Interesting to see what happens this summer.
Trafford is ok isnt he? I mean not outstanding and has weaknesses and obviously isn’t ours. But he isn’t bad.

I’d take him next year If offered on loan. Obviously if we can sign a bit older and more established then great. That’s the ideal, I’d say that kicking is a big weakness for Traff. And command of his area though he’s very hit and miss there and I imagine for a young lad that will come.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:37 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:22 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:15 am
Goalkeepers still Evatt's blind spot IMO. Interesting to see what happens this summer.
Trafford is ok isnt he? I mean not outstanding and has weaknesses and obviously isn’t ours. But he isn’t bad.

I’d take him next year If offered on loan. Obviously if we can sign a bit older and more established then great. That’s the ideal, I’d say that kicking is a big weakness for Traff. And command of his area though he’s very hit and miss there and I imagine for a young lad that will come.
I like him. I'm not sure how good he is. I got very excited when he came in, commanded his area, shouted at his defence and kept four straight clean sheets; since then we've conceded in 9 out of 12 games – the exceptions being Wombles (22nd), Gillingham (20th) and Crewe (24th) – and sometimes we've conceded without exactly facing a barrage of efforts on goal (3 each v Charlton, Lincoln and Morecambe, 1 v Wigan). Obviously "shots on target saved" is far from a perfect metric for assessing a goalkeeper, but as you say he has his weaknesses, and plenty to learn. Not bad, not bad at all, and I'd take him on a free if offered. Loan? I wouldn't complain, but my heart wonders if there's an alternative.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by Mar » Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:42 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:22 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:15 am
Goalkeepers still Evatt's blind spot IMO. Interesting to see what happens this summer.
Trafford is ok isnt he? I mean not outstanding and has weaknesses and obviously isn’t ours. But he isn’t bad.

I’d take him next year If offered on loan. Obviously if we can sign a bit older and more established then great. That’s the ideal, I’d say that kicking is a big weakness for Traff. And command of his area though he’s very hit and miss there and I imagine for a young lad that will come.
I think the majority of us would agree that Trafford is ok and has done a good job so far. Still I don't think that DSB was intending to be critical of Trafford, but more to highlight something Evatt hasn't really nailed down since coming to the club. It's almost as if the goalkeeping spot is an after thought with Crellin and Dixon needing to be improved midway through the season.

I think it would be fair to say that for all the outfield positions, Evatt has managed to recruit and improve the side. With the goalkeeper its hard to say that is the case. He'll probably have stats to back up the improvements hes made but for the average viewer its hard to say he's made massive strides in the goalkeeping department.

I like Trafford too, so I suspect it might just be a perception thing.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:26 am

Mar wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:42 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:22 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:15 am
Goalkeepers still Evatt's blind spot IMO. Interesting to see what happens this summer.
Trafford is ok isnt he? I mean not outstanding and has weaknesses and obviously isn’t ours. But he isn’t bad.

I’d take him next year If offered on loan. Obviously if we can sign a bit older and more established then great. That’s the ideal, I’d say that kicking is a big weakness for Traff. And command of his area though he’s very hit and miss there and I imagine for a young lad that will come.
I think the majority of us would agree that Trafford is ok and has done a good job so far. Still I don't think that DSB was intending to be critical of Trafford, but more to highlight something Evatt hasn't really nailed down since coming to the club. It's almost as if the goalkeeping spot is an after thought with Crellin and Dixon needing to be improved midway through the season.

I think it would be fair to say that for all the outfield positions, Evatt has managed to recruit and improve the side. With the goalkeeper its hard to say that is the case. He'll probably have stats to back up the improvements hes made but for the average viewer its hard to say he's made massive strides in the goalkeeping department.
Yeah fair – away from Trafford, this is the wider point.

In goals, Evatt has picked his old mate from Blackpool, a kid from Fleetwood recommended by his old mate from Blackpool, his old goalkeeper from Barrow (who was there when he arrived), and a kid lent us by City. Perhaps unfair but it doesn't to me feel like the in-depth stat-based approach used for outfielders.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:38 am

Mar wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:42 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:22 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:15 am
Goalkeepers still Evatt's blind spot IMO. Interesting to see what happens this summer.
Trafford is ok isnt he? I mean not outstanding and has weaknesses and obviously isn’t ours. But he isn’t bad.

I’d take him next year If offered on loan. Obviously if we can sign a bit older and more established then great. That’s the ideal, I’d say that kicking is a big weakness for Traff. And command of his area though he’s very hit and miss there and I imagine for a young lad that will come.
I think the majority of us would agree that Trafford is ok and has done a good job so far. Still I don't think that DSB was intending to be critical of Trafford, but more to highlight something Evatt hasn't really nailed down since coming to the club. It's almost as if the goalkeeping spot is an after thought with Crellin and Dixon needing to be improved midway through the season.

I think it would be fair to say that for all the outfield positions, Evatt has managed to recruit and improve the side. With the goalkeeper its hard to say that is the case. He'll probably have stats to back up the improvements hes made but for the average viewer its hard to say he's made massive strides in the goalkeeping department.

I like Trafford too, so I suspect it might just be a perception thing.
We had a better defence last season than this. Or second half last season. I don’t think it’s improved with the recruitment, yes Baps obviously is now past it so needed replacing but we haven’t improved.

I think we were unlucky with Gilks injury finishing him off first half and then Trafford is a big improvement on Crellin and Dixon. So I guess it depends on perspective.

I don’t know if it’s a blind spot or whether it’s Evatt needing to find a keeper who can do the modern sweeper play out thing. But he was happy it seems with Gilks till the injury so hard to say.

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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by Prufrock » Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:26 pm

Mar wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:38 am
Prufrock wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:24 pm
Two centre backs and a LB (or ideally IMO three centre backs and convert George), replace any outgoings, and then look for any quality we can add elsewhere. Think we'd be right in the mix then.

As good as Fossey has been I'd be keeping my eye on Kane Wilson who's out of contract. Doubt we'd be the only takers (inc Forest Green assuming they come up) but defo worth the ask.

And I like Trafford but I'd rather have a more experienced GK who was "ours". What happened with Hladky at Ipswich?!
Hladky would be a great shout. Conceded 18 in 14 (4 clean sheets) and then was dropped in favour of Walton who is younger and has conceded 25 in 29 (13 clean sheets). Looks like the decision was the correct one but then again Hladky was part of the stuttering start Ipswich had before they started keeping a better defensive record. Oddly enough Walton made his debut in our 5-2 win so they must've seen something there to give him a second try.

Walton was on loan from Brighton but has seemingly been made permanent so there is an argument to say Hladky would be surplus to requirements. I'm sure he'll have his suitors but given he was at Salford he might appreciate knowing the north west and fancy a return, East Anglia is quite a different area.
Ta! I'd defo be asking the question.

I just hope to finally have an autumn where we're not think Christ we need a new keeper.

It's a small sample size tbf, but yeah, GK looks to be something of a blind spot.
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Re: High Noon in Wigan. Away at the Piedrome.,Sat,-2-04-22. 12-30 kick-off.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Apr 05, 2022 4:02 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:26 pm
It's a small sample size tbf, but yeah, GK looks to be something of a blind spot.
I forgot - we did also borrow a kid from Burnley and never played him. So it's three kids, one old mate and the keeper he'd just left: doesn't feel like the widest-flung net. Also can't recall many if any links with other goalkeepers.

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