Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Prufrock » Sun May 15, 2022 11:55 am

You are off your head if you think Rangers aren't massively more appealing then us. That fecking Dado Prso signed for them over us when we were a top 6 Prem side.

They're in a European final, a game away from the champions league, and if they lose that they're in the qualifiers for it next year anyway.

Sure, I'd take a move to a top-half Prem team over them, but come on.

And as much as I love him, I don't think he's a Prem player. Win trophies, play in Europe, it's a no brainer.
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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun May 15, 2022 12:00 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 11:35 am
What’s the point of signing for one of two championship level sides to play league one cloggers who kick you up in the air week in week out? He can do that here. Rangers won’t improve him or help him play at an actual high level. And it’s a dead end for that reason. Nobody cares about Scottish football. Yes one year in every ten they might have a decent run in one of the Mickey Mouse European competitions.

Winning promotion to the premiership from the championship is worth more in my view than winning the Scottish premiership.
Ryan Kent is on Premier League money and consistently scouted by good Premier League sides. Plenty of Old Firm players move to the Prem.

Honestly, this is some bizarre Daily Mail comments section stuff.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun May 15, 2022 12:01 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 11:55 am
You are off your head if you think Rangers aren't massively more appealing then us. That fecking Dado Prso signed for them over us when we were a top 6 Prem side.

They're in a European final, a game away from the champions league, and if they lose that they're in the qualifiers for it next year anyway.

Sure, I'd take a move to a top-half Prem team over them, but come on.

And as much as I love him, I don't think he's a Prem player. Win trophies, play in Europe, it's a no brainer.
The conundrum is not us or Rangers though. If Dapo believes that Rangers is the best level he will get to then of course he would have to jump at it.

I’d hope he had higher ambition though and therefore a move to the championship would be infinitely better for his career.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun May 15, 2022 12:03 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 12:00 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 11:35 am
What’s the point of signing for one of two championship level sides to play league one cloggers who kick you up in the air week in week out? He can do that here. Rangers won’t improve him or help him play at an actual high level. And it’s a dead end for that reason. Nobody cares about Scottish football. Yes one year in every ten they might have a decent run in one of the Mickey Mouse European competitions.

Winning promotion to the premiership from the championship is worth more in my view than winning the Scottish premiership.
Ryan Kent is on Premier League money and consistently scouted by good Premier League sides. Plenty of Old Firm players move to the Prem.

Honestly, this is some bizarre Daily Mail comments section stuff.
How many players end up as premiership regulars out of Scotland? It’s barely anyone.

And please I’d ask you not to accuse me of anything to do with the daily mail that’s insulting in the extreme.

If you don’t think Scottish football is a dead end graveyard then tell me what % of players who move to Scotland come back at the highest level here?

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by sonicthewhite » Sun May 15, 2022 12:07 pm

Doesn't really matter what any of us think. He could go to Rangers for 3yrs, win some trophies, play in Europe, earn a large wedge of cash and still be young enough to come back to English football if it didn't work out or he got bored. End of the day he'll do what's best for him.
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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun May 15, 2022 12:09 pm

What percentage of players who move anywhere end up back anywhere else?

SPL players in the Prem recently include Tierney, Wanyama, Paterson....Hickey is joining Arsenal having gone to Italy first.

Two of Liverpool's possible quadruple-winning back four were SPL players.

The SPL is not a top European league, but to say anyone would not choose an Old Firm side over League One is genuinely nuts.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Worthy4England » Sun May 15, 2022 12:13 pm

^^ Like you say, had it been relegated Dundee, then sure, raise an eyebrow...

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun May 15, 2022 12:31 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 12:13 pm
^^ Like you say, had it been relegated Dundee, then sure, raise an eyebrow...
This is one of those where "game of opinions" goes out of the window. No actual, real life footballer is choosing to play in League One over playing for the Old Firm.

In the past three years several Celtic players have gone either to a top European league or a Championship side with promotion ambitions.

Frimpong and Boyata to Germany. Tierney, Edouard and Ajer to the Prem.

Foderingham and Paterson from Rangers to the Prem. Bacuna to the Championship from Rangers. Christie, Ntcham, Sinclair, Kouassi, Lustig etc to the Championship or a club in European competition from Celtic.

This world where players go to Scotland and automatically fall off the radar just doesn't exist.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by nicholaldo » Sun May 15, 2022 12:37 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 12:31 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 12:13 pm
^^ Like you say, had it been relegated Dundee, then sure, raise an eyebrow...
This is one of those where "game of opinions" goes out of the window. No actual, real life footballer is choosing to play in League One over playing for the Old Firm.

In the past three years several Celtic players have gone either to a top European league or a Championship side with promotion ambitions.

Frimpong and Boyata to Germany. Tierney, Edouard and Ajer to the Prem.

Foderingham and Paterson from Rangers to the Prem. Bacuna to the Championship from Rangers. Christie, Ntcham, Sinclair, Kouassi, Lustig etc to the Championship or a club in European competition from Celtic.

This world where players go to Scotland and automatically fall off the radar just doesn't exist.

It can be quite a good pipeline to a higher level, can't it?

Van Dijk, Arteta, etc.

Like it or not, it's a better shop window than the third tier of English football.

And that's before considering a move from us to Rangers on its own terms.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun May 15, 2022 12:45 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 12:37 pm
It can be quite a good pipeline to a higher level, can't it?

Van Dijk, Arteta, etc.

Like it or not, it's a better shop window than the third tier of English football.

And that's before considering a move from us to Rangers on its own terms.
It plays a similar role to the Belgian and Austrian top divisions. All leagues are visible to modern recruitment, but analysists trust metrics more in certain divisions and competitions than others. If you're doing it in the CL/Europa for any club then you are a player people will take seriously, even if you're playing Killy on a Saturday.

And, as you say, playing for Rangers isn't a kick in the teeth - as any former Rangers player will tell you. It's a good job with better pay than we can offer and the chance to play under the big lights.

There are clubs in the SPL where we could poach their players, even as a League One club; but the Old Firm are almost literally a league of their own.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun May 15, 2022 1:15 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 11:30 am
Easy to say all of the above, but if they’re in the Champions League and offering to treble his wages then it might be hard to turn down.

The figure of £1.5m sounds low to me, though. I’d want double.
Bagpipes or Bagpuss? It's a Quo Vadis question. Not doubting for a minute that bawbees will always rule the day (I know all about Scotland see, cos I've seen Rob Roy and Braveheart), but sectarian angle apart, would young Dapo settle in in Glasgow and not be a "wish I'd never left Bolton" move? I know that can't be answered except by time, and I agree 1.5 mil does seem awful low considering general transfer moves to bigger clubs, but no doubt, Que Sera will apply. .

Being dismissive, don't forget, Scotland beat us at Rugby Union and the Home international can never be taken for granted, and Mel Gibson gave us a hiding or two. :oyea:
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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun May 15, 2022 1:59 pm

Just remembered Dapo came here with a recommendation from Kev Nolan. Maybe we should see if he has any more reco's?
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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun May 15, 2022 2:07 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 1:59 pm
Just remembered Dapo came here with a recommendation from Kev Nolan. Maybe we should see i he has any more reco's?
The Spammers, Arsenal, Spurs, Palace etc all have quality in their academies that won't quite make the grade at Prem level.

Figuring out who has the personality to go with the talent is the battle and if Kev can help with that then great.

You look at someone like Mipo Odubeko and there's 100% a Premier League player there, if he can get past himself to put it on the pitch. Not everyone can.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun May 15, 2022 2:35 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 11:30 am

The figure of £1.5m sounds low to me, though. I’d want double.
I know that this isn't a particulary wise practice, however, when I do see us accepting derisory offers for our better players, I think back to how much Megson spunked on Danny Shittu.
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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Worthy4England » Sun May 15, 2022 3:20 pm

Did you have to? :-(

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun May 15, 2022 9:40 pm

Can we not mention Megson. Jesus wept.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon May 16, 2022 11:42 am

Very idle Twitter talk but linked again with Stockton.

Would Dapo going and Stockton coming in be a good deal?

In a 352 it would give us 4 strikers all capable. Which is what we’d want.

But we’d lose the ability to run at defences Dapo brings and some flexibility and we’d have potentially Bod and Cole of relatively similar type.

However, goals wise you’d fancy Dapo was replaced in that scenario. It would be a question of less flexibility on shape. And I’d feel we’d want a wide player still to give us a back four option.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon May 16, 2022 12:18 pm

No, I wouldn't swap Dapo for Stockton. If Dapo went and Stockton came in I'd be pleased with the new addition, but we'd need a new Dapo.

I think Stockton would be one of the finishing pieces in a promotion-worthy attack that includes Dapo. If you take Dapo out and throw Stockton in we are still short (in my opinion) two creative/carrying options.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon May 16, 2022 12:19 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 11:42 am
Very idle Twitter talk but linked again with Stockton.

Would Dapo going and Stockton coming in be a good deal?

In a 352 it would give us 4 strikers all capable. Which is what we’d want.

But we’d lose the ability to run at defences Dapo brings and some flexibility and we’d have potentially Bod and Cole of relatively similar type.

However, goals wise you’d fancy Dapo was replaced in that scenario. It would be a question of less flexibility on shape. And I’d feel we’d want a wide player still to give us a back four option.
It's a good question.

It's possible Stockton might score more goals, but as you note, he would be a very different threat to Dapo running at defenders. That wins us free-kicks, and we will have some good FK takers next season (Morley, Sheehan, John, Sadlier). I don't know whether Stockton gets us those opportunities. I also don't know (genuinely) how good he would be in rotation, which is how our strikers will surely be.

My feeling is we would be weaker. I can see Dapo in the Championship, with room to grow and become more of an asset – on the field and the balance sheet. I don't think Stockton is ever going to be worth more than what Morecambe are asking (Derek Adams was quoted last week saying it would be more than Carlos Mendes Gomes, who was said to be around £500,000).

And as you specifically ask if it's a "good deal", then that entirely depends on the costs in and out. If we got £1.2m for Dapo and got screwed up to £750k for Stockton, then quite simply no, that's not a good deal. If we got, for sake of argument, £5m for Dapo (a year after signing him for free), spent £500k on Stockton *and* he got 15 goals, then yeah, that's probably a good deal.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon May 16, 2022 12:43 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 12:19 pm
And as you specifically ask if it's a "good deal", then that entirely depends on the costs in and out. If we got £1.2m for Dapo and got screwed up to £750k for Stockton, then quite simply no, that's not a good deal. If we got, for sake of argument, £5m for Dapo (a year after signing him for free), spent £500k on Stockton *and* he got 15 goals, then yeah, that's probably a good deal.
This is the bread and butter of it.

If Dapo going funded, say, Stockton, Camara and Ronan then suddenly you've got a complete attack that will scare teams, at the cost of your star man.

If Dapo goes and you end up with Stockton and a BTEC Dapo then I'd say you've lost a lot of your team's intimidation factor.

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