Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:44 pm

We've got our number one target RWB (allegedly :-) ), landed Iredale, got Trafford back. I coulda missed a few but I think the only one we've "missed" is Tucker from what I've read. That doesn't sound too far off plan, given that most teams likely won't get everyone they initially set out to get.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:54 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:44 pm
We've got our number one target RWB (allegedly :-) ), landed Iredale, got Trafford back. I coulda missed a few but I think the only one we've "missed" is Tucker from what I've read. That doesn't sound too far off plan, given that most teams likely won't get everyone they initially set out to get.
Our stated aim was to have all our business done by now.

We can tick boxes and guess, but that's not done and we're not much further along than we were when the season ended.

At this point we are essentially back at par. We will clearly hope for improvement from within the squad as players are more experienced and fitter, but from an "on paper" view we've not kicked on yet as we had previously said we hoped to by now.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:08 pm

Maybe. Iredale looks like a +1. And we need to remember that par, pre-Christmas < par, post Christmas.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:43 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:08 pm
Maybe. Iredale looks like a +1. And we need to remember that par, pre-Christmas < par, post Christmas.
Iredale is a +1, but Bradley is currently an unknown and my measure is us at our best last season - which we still need to improve upon.

Like I say, we'll hope a few will improve - Traf, Dempsey etc. Getting Sheehan back improves the squad. But in terms of "We were this good last season at our best and our 11 is now this good" I'm not sure we can say we've made any strides despite 3 coming in.

There's a lot to do.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:51 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:36 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:25 pm
Still strikes me that Evatt was right when he sympathetically said it hadn't worked out for Marlon this summer. But, y'know - for us it means he's still a possibility to return in January or next summer, should we see fit.
Depends on circumstances. It's hard to read with Evatt sometimes whether he's being snarky or is just a bit awkward at times. I'd like to think there's no hard feelings with how things have gone with Marlon, as he seemed a decent lad and if he's being poorly advised that's awful at this level. We can't say though, from the outside, and just have to hope for the best for ourselves in a selfish game.
My read on those successive quotes is that Evatt is genuinely sorry for Fossey, and wanted to say so - particularly having realised that his "I wanted the other guy anyway" comment was a little too snarky.

Let's not forget we need potential moneymakers as well as development bunnies. It's nice to borrow potential top-level players, but we ain't making resale on them. Someone like Fossey, we possibly could. So he's probably covering his options - but I do get the sense he feels sorry for Foss. Had he gone to Rotherham, OK, good luck. As is, he's back in Fulham's ressies.
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:43 pm
...in terms of "We were this good last season at our best and our 11 is now this good" I'm not sure we can say we've made any strides despite 3 coming in. There's a lot to do.
1st XI, maybe not - depends how you view Iredale/Johnston, I suppose. But he's a better bet in what is now a 16-man game.

• Iredale in, Baptiste/Gordon out - I hope the new fella's better than Baps had become (bless him), and better than Liam ever will be.
• Trafford out, Trafford in - so that's same. Not progress but I don't think anyone expected a better keeper than Trafford.
• Fossey out, Bradley in - that one's to be judged.

add in Sheehan as a bonus ball and it's a strong 16 (or matchday 18 - is it still seven subs?). There'll be good players in the stands every week.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:59 pm

Improving the squad depth is vital and should make us more consistent over the season. My concern after last season remains, though - will we do enough against the top sides.

I think success vs failure for us next season will come down to two things - our record against the top 6-8 other sides and how we do against very defensive sides in adverse conditions. The rest of the league I'd fancy us to be in the top 2-3 form wise.

When we get in some players that make us better in those areas I'll get excited. The sooner the better, given our start and the bedding in time Evatt talks about with his style of play.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:43 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:54 pm

We can tick boxes and guess, but that's not done and we're not much further along than we were when the season ended.
Understand what you're saying here 100%, but let's not forget how strongly we finished last season.

For my money, we're only a few tweaks away (which was basically behind my asking you a few days ago which positions you feel still need strengthening?).

Also, I thought at the time that, though typical, it was as ridiculous as it was bullish for Evatt to say he wanted to have everyone who'll be here this coming season done and dusted in time for Portugal. It's fine having targets and aspirations, but that was rather like me saying I'd like to increase T/O by £1m by lunchtime tomorrow.
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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:29 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:43 pm
I thought at the time that, though typical, it was as ridiculous as it was bullish for Evatt to say he wanted to have everyone who'll be here this coming season done and dusted in time for Portugal. It's fine having targets and aspirations, but that was rather like me saying I'd like to increase T/O by £1m by lunchtime tomorrow.
I've wondered if it were a shot across the bows at agents and players who he suspected might drag feet in the hope of a better deal. However, not sure the best way to get that message across is via public quotes (rather than private communication) - it only raises expectation.

And I've been thinking for a while that what we are suffering this month is expectation, the handmaiden of resentment.

Back in May, coming off the back of a strong run, the mood music was that we'd rehire Fossey (probably permanently and thus potentially lucratively), renew Trafford (with some hoping that would also be permanent) and add a couple more stars. Parading Iredale before the playoffs ended only heightened that expectation.

Then Fossey didn't come, and furthermore it emerged that Tucker – whom only a small percentage of Wanderers followers had been excited about - preferred McDons. Even Fossey's replacement came with caveats. Conor Bradley is a bright talent, but he's young. Not that youth is incompatible with success - Pele fired Brazil to a World Cup win at 17, Kate Bush wrote Wuthering Heights at 18 and it became the first self-penned female UK No.1 – but there are understandable worries over whether he will thrive in a highly demanding and relatively unusual position (Liverpool have attacking full-backs but don't play wingbacks at any level).

Had Bradley been a left wing-back or No.10 or centre-back promising enough to have played in the Champions League, we'd be buzzing. But comparison is the thief of joy and Bradley must outgrow the shadow of Fossey, who had proved himself a thrilling addition and a fan favourite.

So now we're at the end of June, a month that – despite recapturing Trafford and borrowing a hot prospect from the nation's only other serious title contender - has been a disappointment. But maybe that's OK. Had we re-signed Fossey, and captured Tucker, and maybe another, the expectation would only have grown. Those expectation levels are as much Evatt's to manage as the team is. I suspect – and it feels a few here agree - that he's caught between expectation management and bullish bullshitting. It's another development aspect to monitor in a manager who is, let's not forget, still only 40. At that age, Allardyce was in his first season of Football League management.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:31 pm

I think I was more supportive of the Iredale signing than anyone bar maybe Brommers, so I clearly like that signing. I praised Bradley as a superb transition from Fossey. I am delighted to see Trafford back.

Nobody needs to convince me we've signed some decent players there - with my evergreen caveat that most transfers fail.

I'm also not disappointed by us not getting everything done yet. I'm just making an evaluation based on the available evidence. We have missed our primaries in key positions and it looks like we've also missed the rest of those on our shortlists. We're now waiting for things to get moving (they can move in a matter of hours).

It's not an ideal place to be, especially when rivals are landing targets.

All my "concerns" are based purely on the assumption that our aim is automatic promotion and as such we only need a couple of rivals to do better than us for us to be in an iffy position. As it is, we need to do seriously well to recover from our misses. Markham has the contacts to do that, but if you've not done the groundwork for months then things get tricky and mistakes get made.

I want to look at our squad and think "That lot should go up", rather than "That lot might go up, if Evatt plays a blinder." I think we're still in playing a blinder territory at the minute.

The most important thing, after all is said an done, is that we get top quality for the role we need. If it takes weeks it takes weeks.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:44 pm

The bit I'm not sure about, Ghosty, is when you say we've missed our primaries and the rest of those on our shortlists, who's in this (feels like a fairly lengthy) list that we've missed?

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:21 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:44 pm
The bit I'm not sure about, Ghosty, is when you say we've missed our primaries and the rest of those on our shortlists, who's in this (feels like a fairly lengthy) list that we've missed?
It makes an assumption that we operate like a standard department. Ordinarily if you're on a deadline you'd have a number of actionable targets and if you went for one and missed you'd immediately move onto another. The fact we've now openly said we have to wait and see would typically mean we're onto what are sometimes called monitoring lists, watch lists etc.....basically seeing if anyone you've been looking at becomes available. We'll also have spoken to agents and let them know what we need, to see what they can come up with for us.

It's possible we've just had one target per position and missing those have had to sit on our hands and see what goes on, but that'd be a really odd way to do business and isn't what we've done previously. It's also not what's being said by those in the game and doesn't seem to chime with what Evatt has said.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:29 pm

Which is all intriguing and quite possibly true, but "guessing who we might have tried to sign but didn't" is a stage further than "guessing who we might try to sign"

Might even be a step too far for me to contemplate

(Ross Sykes? Eoghan O'Connell? Matt Butcher?)

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:45 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:21 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:44 pm
The bit I'm not sure about, Ghosty, is when you say we've missed our primaries and the rest of those on our shortlists, who's in this (feels like a fairly lengthy) list that we've missed?
It makes an assumption that we operate like a standard department. Ordinarily if you're on a deadline you'd have a number of actionable targets and if you went for one and missed you'd immediately move onto another. The fact we've now openly said we have to wait and see would typically mean we're onto what are sometimes called monitoring lists, watch lists etc.....basically seeing if anyone you've been looking at becomes available. We'll also have spoken to agents and let them know what we need, to see what they can come up with for us.

It's possible we've just had one target per position and missing those have had to sit on our hands and see what goes on, but that'd be a really odd way to do business and isn't what we've done previously. It's also not what's being said by those in the game and doesn't seem to chime with what Evatt has said.
Thanks for explaining. The bit I'm not quite getting is, "the actionable targets". We can be fairly certain on RWB, LB (or wherever you want to.pitch Iredale on any given Sunday), GK as we've got three done. We also sorted big Ric and as far as we know, no one's offered a Kings ransom for Dapo. After that, with a maybe exception around a CB, wouldn't most other moves sorta necessitate one out, one in?

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:59 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:45 pm
The bit I'm not quite getting is, "the actionable targets". We can be fairly certain on RWB, LB (or wherever you want to.pitch Iredale on any given Sunday), GK as we've got three done. We also sorted big Ric and as far as we know, no one's offered a Kings ransom for Dapo. After that, with a maybe exception around a CB, wouldn't most other moves sorta necessitate one out, one in?
I make it we have 19 overage outfielders – three under the cap – and one of them is Darcy. (I'm assuming Tutte will not be on the squad list.) Evatt seems to be saying we are under the wage budget - money to spend, etc.

In a summer where we're not manically active, you would hope for improvement in say three or four places. Either improvement of the back-up or the incumbent: competition or overhaul.

We also have 11 players – Dixon, Aimson, MJ, Lee, Thomason, Sheehan, Darcy, Isgrove, Kachunga, Bakayoko, Bodvarsson - entering the last year of their contracts, so we have decisions to make. On several, I'm in no great rush to replace or conversely to extend - it's good to have some elbow-room for the next two windows.

An additional factor is the B-team, if they impress quickly enough – although I'm not sure any of them have the reputation to be banging down the door of a squad chasing the top six.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:23 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:29 pm
Which is all intriguing and quite possibly true, but "guessing who we might have tried to sign but didn't" is a stage further than "guessing who we might try to sign"

Might even be a step too far for me to contemplate

(Ross Sykes? Eoghan O'Connell? Matt Butcher?)
Which is why I'm not on here suggesting anything that hasn't been reported as sourced by local journalists.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:27 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:45 pm
Thanks for explaining. The bit I'm not quite getting is, "the actionable targets". We can be fairly certain on RWB, LB (or wherever you want to.pitch Iredale on any given Sunday), GK as we've got three done. We also sorted big Ric and as far as we know, no one's offered a Kings ransom for Dapo. After that, with a maybe exception around a CB, wouldn't most other moves sorta necessitate one out, one in?
The public reports that I'm prepared to accept are correct are Tucker, Barky and Butcher. They have come from reliable guys who do their jobs properly (multiple sources) and Iles has been pretty open that they're right.

So CB, CM and ST/FW/UT whatever we want Barky to be.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by irie Cee Bee » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:36 pm

I am pretty happy with the squad. With Sheehan and Isgrove back we will be even stronger than last season. Would love another defensive midfielder, a Centre Back and a number 10, but to hang on to Dapo and Santos is massive. We have time to fill those positions later in this window, or in January. Currently we may appear to be just short of automatic promotion given how we performed against the top sides last season, but I believe we will be even better this season with players like DadBod, Sadlier, Dempsey, Trafford, Morley and Charles having a full pre-season together.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:44 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:23 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:29 pm
Which is all intriguing and quite possibly true, but "guessing who we might have tried to sign but didn't" is a stage further than "guessing who we might try to sign"

Might even be a step too far for me to contemplate

(Ross Sykes? Eoghan O'Connell? Matt Butcher?)
Which is why I'm not on here suggesting anything that hasn't been reported as sourced by local journalists.
Wasn’t having a pop. Just saying that speculating on who we didn’t get could, perhaps uncharitably, be seen as an even bigger waste of time that speculating on who we might get 😀

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:54 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:44 pm
Wasn’t having a pop. Just saying that speculating on who we didn’t get could, perhaps uncharitably, be seen as an even bigger waste of time that speculating on who we might get 😀
It's one of those things. I've heard things that I'm prepared to accept, but which I wouldn't say on here because it's not properly sourced. If a mate tells you something then you might trust it, but it doesn't mean other people should.

I think we've had a tough time of it, but I still think we've done well to get who we have. Who knows, it's possible that getting Iredale as easily as we did skewed our perception of the market a bit. Maybe we thought Tucker would be just as keen as t'other Jack and we didn't have a back-up plan. I find that unlikely, but it's possible. I think it more likely that we did have other plans, but that none of them have panned out and that (from what Evatt has said) it's down to the financial packages we are offering. For me, that means we've made an error in how we've assessed things - believing our offers would be competitive when they were not. Again, that's an assumption on my part.

Like I say, so long as we end up with enough quality in the end I don't much care who the names are. I think Tucker would have done well here, but I wasn't married to him. I'm not fussed that he's not a Bolton player, I'm only bothered that MK Dons got a bit better and we didn't.

We'll see how we do in the end.

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Re: Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

Post by brommers95 » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:58 pm

I think it’s pretty clear we’re still in the market for a CB having missed out on Tucker.

Despite the signing of Bradley I wouldn’t mind another RWB to compete for the starting spot with the youngster.

I’d also feel we’re missing another defensive midfielder to push MJ and a proper no.10 wouldn’t go amiss to add some more creativity in the final third.

I also wouldn’t be upset to see the back of Kachunga and a punt taken on a younger forward. I can’t see anyone taking on his wages though.

It seems likely that Darcy will be loaned out (or have his contract terminated) which would mean there’re still four squad spaces (for players over 21) for the four positions mentioned above: CB, RWB, CDM, CAM.

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