Steel the 3 points? Sheff Weds, Sat 9/4 at 3pm(h)

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I suspect we'll do what Ghosty and I think you have suggested - look for a RCB as a starter and look for a LCB to push - the only thing I'd probably do differently is look for a LCB as a starter.

All else equal, would you get both and play a back three? Obvz depends on Fossey etc, but some folk seem very vexed about the back three. I'm not so bothered as long as it works. Just wondering what you'd do.

Shan't argue the defence needs to improve. Would be daft not to. Just wondering how people expect it to happen.

[Worthy4England]

I suspect we'll do what Ghosty and I think you have suggested - look for a RCB as a starter and look for a LCB to push - the only thing I'd probably do differently is look for a LCB as a starter.

All else equal, would you get both and play a back three? Obvz depends on Fossey etc, but some folk seem very vexed about the back three. I'm not so bothered as long as it works. Just wondering what you'd do.

Shan't argue the defence needs to improve. Would be daft not to. Just wondering how people expect it to happen.

I'm not precious about system, albeit if we were a 4, we might only need 1 CB additional. I think you've probably got to do what we've done and find the best fit for the resources at our disposal. I'm not in the "must be a back 4" camp. But for me the measure of the defence isn't when we're 6-0 up and everything's tickity-boo, it's when we're 3-0 down or even 1-0 down and under pressure. At that point, all you're fine 30 yard cross fields aren't worth a sack of shit, if you can't make the tackle, header, block etc. that stops you going 2-0 down.

[GhostoftheBok]

I feel that Johnston, Jones, Aimson and Santos can all be part of a promoted squad at this level.

We will be aiming to win the league, so we have got to include the quality and depth on offer. If we can get two top class defenders for this level I'm all for it, I just think Johnston is protected by what the club see as his potential resale value once we've developed him.

I suspect the list of "definite first teamers on paper" is: Santos, Johnston, John, Dempsey, Morley, Dapo, Charles. Players who are either vital to how Evatt wants to play, a level above what you'd expect to see in League One, too well paid for us to double-up on or just seen as too valuable not to play.

[sonicthewhite]

Reading the BN tonight Evatt reckons Rico could be out for the season. If that's true then I can't see how we'd make a back 5 work effectively with the personnel we have left. So my choice would be a back 4 of Gethin-Aimson-Johnstone-Declan with MJ in front to screen them.

[GhostoftheBok]

Reading the BN tonight Evatt reckons Rico could be out for the season. If that's true then I can't see how we'd make a back 5 work effectively with the personnel we have left. So my choice would be a back 4 of Gethin-Aimson-Johnstone-Declan with MJ in front to screen them.

Depends who is fit. Per a conversation I had last night John might not be right with his back and Sads picked up a knock.

Dropping like flies again, by the sounds of it. Hopefully we can nurse a few through.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

But for me the measure of the defence isn't when we're 6-0 up and everything's tickity-boo, it's when we're 3-0 down or even 1-0 down and under pressure. At that point, all you're fine 30 yard cross fields aren't worth a sack of shit, if you can't make the tackle, header, block etc. that stops you going 2-0 down.

Agreed.

I feel that Johnston, Jones, Aimson and Santos can all be part of a promoted squad at this level.

We will be aiming to win the league, so we have got to include the quality and depth on offer. If we can get two top class defenders for this level I'm all for it, I just think Johnston is protected by what the club see as his potential resale value once we've developed him.

I suspect the list of "definite first teamers on paper" is: Santos, Johnston, John, Dempsey, Morley, Dapo, Charles. Players who are either vital to how Evatt wants to play, a level above what you'd expect to see in League One, too well paid for us to double-up on or just seen as too valuable not to play.

There's plenty that could be part of a squad. Depends how much they get dragged along by the key players. Arthur Gnahoua got promoted.

Interesting that your Definites list doesn't include Bod and Sadlier, each of whom Evatt chased hard over multiple windows. Not saying you're wrong, just noting.

[GhostoftheBok]

Interesting that your Definites list doesn't include Bod and Sadlier, each of whom Evatt chased hard over multiple windows. Not saying you're wrong, just noting.

I think they'll both be very important parts of Evatt's plans.

You could argue I'm being biased saying Dempsey will, but Sadlier won't - but that's mostly because (as things stand) I think it'll be a choice between Dapo and Sads in a lot of games and Dapo will win.

Were Dapo to move on I'd probably include Sads. I will also include Dad Bod if we don't sign another forward in the summer. If we start next season with these forwards then I think first/second choice is Charles/Kachunga and Bodvarsson/Bakayoko.

Part of me thinks Sads might have been brought in in anticipation of Dapo being sold in the summer, but that's just speculation and has no grounding.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Part of me thinks Sads might have been brought in in anticipation of Dapo being sold in the summer, but that's just speculation and has no grounding.

I think this is entirely possible. Nice to have both, but nothing lasts forever.

Probably the wrong thread for such futurology but who would you expect to line up on opening day in August?

[officer_dibble]

I suspect we'll do what Ghosty and I think you have suggested - look for a RCB as a starter and look for a LCB to push - the only thing I'd probably do differently is look for a LCB as a starter.

All else equal, would you get both and play a back three? Obvz depends on Fossey etc, but some folk seem very vexed about the back three. I'm not so bothered as long as it works. Just wondering what you'd do.

Shan't argue the defence needs to improve. Would be daft not to. Just wondering how people expect it to happen.

I love a back 3 - think John and Fossey as wing backs were / are great for this level. Without those key personnel a 4 at the back becomes more sensible because they are hard to have back ups for. I get what Evatt is doing with Sadlier - he’s relying on Jones doing a lot of the defending whilst covering the centre half as well, would be more worried about that with something to play for.

What about Santos - is he more likely than anyone to go this summer? If it means we sign new right and left sided centre halves and move to a back four again is it the end of the world? If we sign those players and keep Santos does he miss out in a back four?

[Worthy4England]

Arthur Gnahoua got promoted

And he has 3 goals and 4 assists. Long live the King!

[GhostoftheBok]

Probably the wrong thread for such futurology but who would you expect to line up on opening day in August?

Before these hamstring injuries I'd have said Santos would probably go and Dapo was 50/50. If Santos doesn't sign on we will actually want to sell him. We cant afford to lose the money. Dapo will have to be the subject of a big offer to sell him, but it's possible he will be.

Those injuries, especially the Santos one, will change the market view of them a bit. Dapo will remain attractive, but it may mean people don't meet our valuation unless he's back starting games by the end of the term. Santos won't be back and it may mean contract offers are slightly lower, making sticking around more attractive.

That's my read anyway. I think the club will be hoping Santos stays and we get a big enough offer for Dapo that he goes, but it is still more likely to be the other way around, even with the knocks.

[TANGODANCER]

When it comes to ruthless, some of you lot make Thomas Shelby look like an altar boy. By the time the new season starts everybody will be saying "who"?

I'll make a prediction from a confirmed rose-tinter most of the time: Next season we need to realise where and who we are and play tough football like a Wigan, MK Dons, Rotherham or Plymouth. If we do that and battle our way into next season's promotions, then we can be and play like Bolton Wanderers. No, I haven't lost my marbles, just being realistic. We're still a bit living in dream land right now and mixing finance with football. Stick with the latter.

[Prufrock]

Interesting that your Definites list doesn't include Bod and Sadlier, each of whom Evatt chased hard over multiple windows. Not saying you're wrong, just noting.

I think they'll both be very important parts of Evatt's plans.

You could argue I'm being biased saying Dempsey will, but Sadlier won't - but that's mostly because (as things stand) I think it'll be a choice between Dapo and Sads in a lot of games and Dapo will win.

Were Dapo to move on I'd probably include Sads. I will also include Dad Bod if we don't sign another forward in the summer. If we start next season with these forwards then I think first/second choice is Charles/Kachunga and Bodvarsson/Bakayoko.

Part of me thinks Sads might have been brought in in anticipation of Dapo being sold in the summer, but that's just speculation and has no grounding.

Sadlier was signed when we thought we were 433. I'm not sure he and Dapo were signed to compete at 10, they were signed to compete for two wide spots (and I think to both play).

The issue with trying to play 352 AND 433 regularly is one requires no wingers and the other 2. You need a big squad and/or lots of hybrids. It's why I keep coming back to 343 being the one of you want the option of a back 5.

To answer the question, given we want possession based and high pressing, 352 is bonkers. It's an in built tension. Requires huge changes and I only think we're there because it fluked working.

I'd be recruiting to 433 and having the option of 343.

[GhostoftheBok]

Sadlier was signed when we thought we were 433. I'm not sure he and Dapo were signed to compete at 10, they were signed to compete for two wide spots (and I think to both play).

In both systems their best position is the same. In an ideal world they both want to cut in off the left wing in a 3. In our 5-3-2 they are both ideally 10s.

*edit* I actually think they could play together, with Dapo up front with a partner and Sads at 10, but that's another conversation.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'd be recruiting to 433 and having the option of 343.

It's a fine ideal, and you're right about the bonus of high width, but it worries me about midfield solidity (or rather lack thereof).

This autumn, mainly to accommodate Sheehan, we switched from a successful 4-2-3-1 to a 4-3-3 (with one behind two in the midfield triangle) and we got walked through. Partly MJ's lack of athleticism, partly better oppos, partly other injuries, but it weakened us and that cost.

3-4-3 brings up some of the same problems - compared to 3-5-2 it's easier bypassed. Sure, you can ask the wide attackers to dig in but with the world's best will it is, pound for pound, easier to attack against and cut through. I think we've only tried it a couple of times under Evatt and it's not gone well.

For the record, on a related note, I also think BWFCi has a good point when he suggests we haven't really got the single-point line-leader needed in an "odd man up front" system - 4-3-3, 3-4-3, 4-2-3-1. Obviously they can be supported by runners but right now I can't say I have 100% confidence in any of our - five? six? - strikers being better in that lone role than they are in a "two up top".

Same question again, I suppose: if you're picking the team right now for next season, who plays in the 3-4-3 or the 4-3-3, especially in midfield?

[Prufrock]

FWIW when I talk about 433 I'm including both 433 and 4231.

I'm not sure we've ever really played a 343. The front 3 (so the 10 and 2 strikers) have had a lot of freedom but it's been very "loose" we haven't had say Dapo off the left and Sads off the right consistently probing 2v1s on a full back.

I also don't think MJ really fits anywhere in a 343.

My "best" XI for each below. On the assumption we keep everyone. And top of my recruitment would be two centre backs.

433

Trafford; Jones, Santos, CB, John; Sheehan, MJ, Morley; Sads, Charles, Dapo. Players who could easily drop in: Fossey, Johnstone (at LB for me) other CB, Dempsey, Lee, Kach, Dadi, Baka, Xav

4231: GK and 4 as above: Demspey, Morley; Sads; Sheehan; Dapo; Charles. Players who could drop in: Mj and as above.

343: Trafford; Jones, Santos, CB; Fossey, Dempsey, Morley, John; Sads, Charles, Dapo. Players who could easily drop in: Johnstone, Lee, Sheehan, Kach, Xav, Dadi, Baka.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Cheers, now there's a full answer. Interesting that you'd drop Dempsey from the 4-2-3-1. I think he may embody the way Evatt wants our midfield to go, in any formation. But I agree MJ wouldn't work in a 3-4-3. It asks an awful lot of your central two.

For the record we played 3-4-3 once (home v Grimsby I think) in the Fourth Division, and at points in this season's injury-ravaged spell (Oct-Dec) it was the only way we could fill the XI. Not exactly shining examples, or indeed fair examples of the way you'd like to play it.

[Prufrock]

I've got him in the 4231 but not the 433. Tbh I would have no arguments if he was in it. V borderline based on if I was picking the team tomorrow (and all fit).

As for the 343, I seem to have blocked those games out of my mind for some reason ! But yeah, not been since since Jan when it's being used because we want to and not because it's the roundest if several distinctly square options.

[GhostoftheBok]

It's hard to know what each individual means why they say "3-4-3" or "3-5-2" or any other formation. If you mean the Conte approach to that system we can't play it with what we have now and there are too many players in the squad who'd be massively sub-optimal for us to use this squad as a base from which to build to it over one summer. If there's a value of 3-4-3 people like that differs from that "hard running, 50-yard pace"-based system then I'll withdraw that, but Insane's war cry of "PACE AND POWER!" would become more plaintive and acute if we went with a Conte approach.

I think we're building this squad to a blueprint and it doesn't scream 3-4-3 at me.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Any formation is only a starting point, unless the buggers are welded together as in table football or a Tony Pulis back four.

However, Evatt has definitely namechecked the 3-4-3 on occasion, as have reporters covering the team.

Oct 6th, 2020: In Ilesy's absence, BN regional sports editor Adam Lord reports on the Sherpa defeat at Shrewsbury and says "It all added up to a 3-4-3 set-up with Lockett, Darcy and Gnahoua forming a rotating front three."

Oct 11th, 2020: In Ilesy's absence, guest BN reporter says "Wanderers stuck rigidly to their 3-4-3 formation throughout" in the 0-0 v Grimsby.

Nov 27th 2021: we seem (per Iles) to have played it v Cheltenham.

Dec 1st, 2021, after beating Fleetwood in the Sherpa:

We need some more work on that 3-4-3, really, we can go back to the 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 at any point, we have that fluidity with who we have available at the moment. When their wide forwards stayed wide we had a problem with how quickly we release our wingbacks to their full-backs, and their full-backs became unopposed, really, and were getting out too easily. We weren’t moving across very quickly but that is because we haven’t had a lot of chance to work on it. We’ll have that opportunity Saturday, Sunday, Monday to really drill down on that formation and then have a look at the game next Tuesday and see which way we go.

Dec 2nd, 2021

We have got a lot of work to be done on different systems, whether that is 4-3-3, 3-4-3, there is a lot of detail that we need to give to the players over this few days – better pictures, better options, a better defensive structure.

Dec 4th, 2021 - on Kacha:

He has shown that recently and he gives us such good variety. If we go 4-3-3 he can play wide, as a 10, or even as a nine. And definitely in the 3-4-3 he can play in any of the front three positions, so he we’re happy with where he is right now.

Dec 6th, 2021, during the injury crisis

It’s just tactical bingo, really! I know fans will have opinions on what formations they would like to see but realistically it isn’t about having a Plan B, Plan C, Plan D – it’s about having a very good Plan A.

When it isn’t working for you, then it is about tweaking that system and making adjustments. The philosophy will always stay the same, we want to control the ball, we want possession, build from the back and create opportunities that way.

We can change formations if it is needed and I had a lot of success at Barrow playing 3-5-2 but I actually prefer 4-3-3. I’d started at Barrow with that system but had to change it and had loads of success.

When I came to Bolton I started with the 3-5-2 and didn’t do so well but went to 4-3-3 and got results again.

Now we have had all these injuries hit us at the same time I am looking at the fit players I have got available and thinking ‘how many round pegs can I fit in round holes?’ “This formation seems to suit us the best at the moment, so whether it is three or four it won’t really matter to the type of football we are looking to play. The identity will remain the same out there, it is just how we look at space on the pitch and whether we have to move a few of them around.

Jan 28th, 2022, after signing Bod:

We’ve got loads of different strings to our bow now. We can play 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 3-5-2, 3-4-3 - and with the players that are going to come in the building, that will give us even more flexibility. The players we have signed are all flexible really. There are lots of players in this squad now who can play in different positions and we can change before or during a game.