Steel the 3 points? Sheff Weds, Sat 9/4 at 3pm(h)

[GhostoftheBok]

The fact one of those dates from Jan 28th is interesting. Like I say, I find people men very different thinks when they talk about the same formation. I'd be interested to hear what people on here think a 3-4-3 is like with the kind of players we have at the moment.

[BWFC_Insane]

Evatt to me is permanently trapped between wanting to play like Man City yet knowing really our better players suit Liverpools style more.

And I think he needs to ensure we don’t try and be a league one Man City unless we add the genuine quality players in key areas that are probably outside our budget. Liverpool or Spurs or Chelsea are more achievable in terms of styles and more realistic at this level. Man City entirely rely on a number of players who can change gears instantly. And we don’t have any of those. And certainly would need several.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The fact one of those dates from Jan 28th is interesting. Like I say, I find people men very different thinks when they talk about the same formation. I'd be interested to hear what people on here think a 3-4-3 is like with the kind of players we have at the moment.

I'd say the main difference is that a 3-5-2 has an extra bod in the middle - in the No.10 role, so nominally a "midfielder" - whereas the 3-4-3 doesn't. Really you're just changing the front three from a "Crawford" behind two "strikers" to one mon in the middle and two men wide, to offer Pru's "high width".

Of course they could be the same players, just in different roles.

Will have a think who's playing where in my entirely hypothetical teams.

EDIT: I've thinked.

4-2-3-1:
Trafford;
Jones, Santos, Aimson, John;
Dempsey, Morley;
Fossey, Sadlier, Dapo;
Bodvarsson.
(subs: Charles, Baka, Kacha, Lee, Sheehan, MJ, Johnston)

4-3-3:
Trafford;
Jones, Santos, Aimson, John;
Morley, MJ, Dempsey;
Fossey, Bodvarsson, Dapo.
(subs: Charles, Baka, Kacha, Sadlier, Lee, Sheehan, Johnston)

3-4-1-2:
Trafford;
Jones, Santos, Johnston;
Fossey, Dempsey, Morley, John;
Dapo;
Bodvarsson, Charles.
(subs: Baka, Kacha, Sadlier, Lee, Sheehan, MJ, Aimson)

3-4-3:
Trafford;
Jones, Santos, Johnston;
Fossey, Dempsey, Morley, John;
Sadlier, Bodvarsson, Dapo.
(subs: Charles, Baka, Kacha, Lee, Sheehan, MJ, Aimson)

[GhostoftheBok]

So Charles, arguably the signing Evatt made the biggest deal about, who cost the most money and the fans have probably most fallen in love with, only makes the 11 in one of 4 systems?

I'm not disagreeing with you on my own behalf, but I do find it hard to imagine Evatt seeing things the same way there. I've not personally given it enough thought to finalise an opinion.

[Prufrock]

The way I see it is as an exaggerated version of a 433. On the ball that's what we looked like a lot last year. The full backs would bomb on, MJ would sit. You swap MJ for another centre back, allow the wing backs to go even more, but the two central midfielders are then more disciplined. More like Tuchel's 343 where there is a winger on each side out of possession to press high in wide areas, and on the ball they're more like dual 10's who come inside to make space for the wing back but stay on their "side" to make 2v1s or to pick the ball up and recycle when the wing back decides against wanging in a cross.

The issue for me with 352 is that to have the option of playing any other formation (other than a diamond) you need players who can play as wingers as well as at least one other position in a 352 (and they can't all also be forwards in the 2). So far we've tried Dapo, Kach, Sads and Xav at 10 at various points, and they've all struggled massively. Lee is the only one who has made that 10 role work. This squad IMO needs a huge amount of work on recruitment to make 352 work, both going in and out. And most of that work would go to negating playing anything with wingers, unless you can find those miracle players above.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

So Charles, arguably the signing Evatt made the biggest deal about, who cost the most money and the fans have probably most fallen in love with, only makes the 11 in one of 4 systems?

I'm not disagreeing with you on my own behalf, but I do find it hard to imagine Evatt seeing things the same way there. I've not personally given it enough thought to finalise an opinion.

You're making the mistake of lending thoughts to opinions

The above aren't my second-guessed Evatt teams, they're my teams. I like Charles a lot but I think he would struggle in an "odd-numbered" front line, and right now I think he's struggling in an even-numbered one, too. He had nine goal involvements (goals or assists) in eight games between Jan 22nd and Feb 19th. In the eight games since he's contributed neither. I hope that changes and he makes a stronger push for my hypothetical XI(s).

[GhostoftheBok]

He had nine goal involvements (goals or assists) in eight games between Jan 22nd and Feb 19th. In the eight games since he's contributed neither. I hope that changes and he makes a stronger push for my hypothetical XI(s).

It's neither an opinion nor requiring of much thought to say Charles has been crap recently.

Hopefully it's just the "new dad" drop off and he comes back strong next season.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The way I see it is as an exaggerated version of a 433. On the ball that's what we looked like a lot last year. The full backs would bomb on, MJ would sit. You swap MJ for another centre back, allow the wing backs to go even more, but the two central midfielders are then more disciplined. More like Tuchel's 343 where there is a winger on each side out of possession to press high in wide areas, and on the ball they're more like dual 10's who come inside to make space for the wing back but stay on their "side" to make 2v1s or to pick the ball up and recycle when the wing back decides against wanging in a cross.

The issue for me with 352 is that to have the option of playing any other formation (other than a diamond) you need players who can play as wingers as well as at least one other position in a 352 (and they can't all also be forwards in the 2). So far we've tried Dapo, Kach, Sads and Xav at 10 at various points, and they've all struggled massively. Lee is the only one who has made that 10 role work. This squad IMO needs a huge amount of work on recruitment to make 352 work, both going in and out. And most of that work would go to negating playing anything with wingers, unless you can find those miracle players above.

Interesting stuff.

I'd say we have several players who can each play several positions in the "front four", and I wouldn't say all those players have "struggled massively" at 10. True, none has presented himself as The Eternal Answer, either. But then, neither does Kieran Lee, given his propensity to fall to pieces in the box (Newport!) or for that matter on the treatment table. Again, I like Sexy K, but he doesn't feel like a future we can rely on. And that might lend weight to your 10-avoiding tactics, but I still fear from bitter experience that it leaves us understaffed. Maybe those fears can be allayed by "downloading" "content" in "training" "sessions".

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

It's neither an opinion nor requiring of much thought to say Charles has been crap recently.

Hopefully it's just the "new dad" drop off and he comes back strong next season.

I hope so too, because in that month of excellence, he looked very very good indeed: a striker's instinct, but also constantly running to close down with more speed than I've seen most Wanderers sprint at full pelt. THAT Charles, King Charles, gets in the team.

[TANGODANCER]

A request ..

At least two of the last three pages of this thread are not so much to do with a match discussion on current fixtures as Wanderers generalities and would be more at home in threads regarding technology, finance or squad depth in general (of which we have several). Can I ask politely if match threads are relevant and such a request can be complied with to make life easier for all (oh, and me of course as keeping track of it all is a bit of a xxxxxxx bind..)

Thanking you in advance on behalf of Whites and Owls both. Oh, and COME ON YOU WHITES ...



Amen.

[GhostoftheBok]

THAT Charles, King Charles, gets in the team.

Shame he lost his head.
Shame he wigged out.
Let's hope for a Restoration.
He's at his best when he's being cavalier.
Let's hope we get Liverpool in the cup next season. King Charles and Van Dijk, what a picture that'd be.

Unfortunately, I have more...

[GhostoftheBok]

A request ..

At least two of the last three pages of this thread are not so much to do with a match discussion on current fixtures as Wanderers generalities and would be more at home in threads regarding technology, finance or squad depth in general (of which we have several). Can I ask politely if match threads are relevant and such a request can be complied with to make life easier for all (oh, and me of course as keeping track of it all is a bit of a xxxxxxx bind..)

Thanking you in advance on behalf of Whites and Owls both.

Amen.

Entirely reasonable. Mea culpa.

[officer_dibble]

A request ..

At least two of the last three pages of this thread are not so much to do with a match discussion on current fixtures as Wanderers generalities and would be more at home in threads regarding technology, finance or squad depth in general (of which we have several). Can I ask politely if match threads are relevant and such a request can be complied with to make life easier for all (oh, and me of course as keeping track of it all is a bit of a xxxxxxx bind..)

Thanking you in advance on behalf of Whites and Owls both. Oh, and COME ON YOU WHITES ...



Amen.

Avoided talking about the game…everything pointing towards us getting a complete shoeing today. I think we’ll have to go attack as the best form of defence and try and outscore them…but it could easily be a hammering I’m afraid. I’m predicting 0-4.

[TANGODANCER]

Avoided talking about the game…everything pointing towards us getting a complete shoeing today. I think we’ll have to go attack as the best form of defence and try and outscore them…but it could easily be a hammering I’m afraid. I’m predicting 0-4.
[/quote]

I think it's a case of everybody will have to raise their game today. We're certainly not favourites in the equality stakes, more Limpers then Trotters, and sympathy must go to the boss man as he's hardly spoiled for choice. That said, our lot are all professional footballers paid to do a job and they'll have to dig in and do that. We'll have to do that with some care as the thought of having somebody sent off is frightening, but it's the real core areas from the injured, Santos, Dapo, Fossey (arguable our three best players) etc and the lack of form of M.J and Charles that needs addressing. Me, I'd put M.J in a back four with whoever, and Sadlier, Dempsey and Morley as the three ahead. Up front, Kachunga, DadBod and Charles, but what do I know? Keep the faith and focus. Come on lads, you can do it.

[Worthy4England]

^^ Dempsey's got a torn hammy, Tango.

[TANGODANCER]

^^ Dempsey's got a torn hammy, Tango.

Ah, so he has..sorry. Maybe time to bring Adam Senior forth then and M.J as defensive midfield ?

[BWFC_Insane]

^^ Dempsey's got a torn hammy, Tango.

Seems to have had quite a few injuries in his career too. Obviously one that wasn’t picked up via the old riskometer.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Three changes
• Aimson for Rico
• MJ for Dempsey
• Kachunga for Dapo (bench)

suggests Sadlier RWB, but could also be 4-2-3-1 – prob not 4-3-3 though unless someone is playing out of place as an 8 (Sadlier?)

[officer_dibble]

^^ Dempsey's got a torn hammy, Tango.

Seems to have had quite a few injuries in his career too. Obviously one that wasn’t picked up via the old riskometer.

Fair point - his third injury since January.

[Worthy4England]

^^ Dempsey's got a torn hammy, Tango.

Seems to have had quite a few injuries in his career too. Obviously one that wasn’t picked up via the old riskometer.

The point stands for all players. Difference between this one and Fossey, is we've bought him. Not Sheehan's first ACL either...