Trotters v Charlton - Time for the Sorting Hat - (H) 15:00 3rd Sept

[GhostoftheBok]

See my opinion is that if you are asking a wing back to get in and protect the wide centre backs from their wide man in a 3 you are playing the wrong system. Evatt said we went man for man which means Iredale’s ‘man’ is their right full back.

If Iredale is doubling up you are ending up with a back five and will be too deep. I don’t think you can expect your wingbacks to protect the centre backs. It’s why Evatt continually says we ask centre backs to defend one on one in large areas because this system demands that especially against a 433.

That only works as an argument for a generality, not specifics. When Iredale is being yelled at by half the team for not doing his job it might be fair to say it's not something they've worked on in training.

Football isn't a slide show. If in the fluid motion of a game someone becomes your man then he's your man and if you don't track him then you've not done your job. I don't care if you're a wing back or a striker.

Too many times today there was an obvious gap for them to exploit and it was Iredale shaped. That hasn't been an issue when he's played previously, because he's been switched on. Our wing backs still have defensive duties.

Again, though, it's an opinion based on watching the game once. I'll happily correct if I watch it back and see it differently, as does sometimes happen.

[officer_dibble]

Selection bingo is great when it comes off - fair to say GT has taken his chance - will he stay in the team?

Some interesting results today - Sheff wed beating at home, Plymouth winning away…Ipswich and Pompey unbeaten. League looks very tough again.

[BWFC_Insane]

See my opinion is that if you are asking a wing back to get in and protect the wide centre backs from their wide man in a 3 you are playing the wrong system. Evatt said we went man for man which means Iredale’s ‘man’ is their right full back.

If Iredale is doubling up you are ending up with a back five and will be too deep. I don’t think you can expect your wingbacks to protect the centre backs. It’s why Evatt continually says we ask centre backs to defend one on one in large areas because this system demands that especially against a 433.

That only works as an argument for a generality, not specifics. When Iredale is being yelled at by half the team for not doing his job it might be fair to say it's not something they've worked on in training.

Football isn't a slide show. If in the fluid motion of a game someone becomes your man then he's your man and if you don't track him then you've not done your job. I don't care if you're a wing back or a striker.

Too many times today there was an obvious gap for them to exploit and it was Iredale shaped. That hasn't been an issue when he's played previously, because he's been switched on. Our wing backs still have defensive duties.

Again, though, it's an opinion based on watching the game once. I'll happily correct if I watch it back and see it differently, as does sometimes happen.

Your wing back should be playing almost on the front line. If it was their full back having a whale of a time I can accept it. But Johnston had a man to deal with and couldn’t. From minute one all the way through. You can’t double up a wing back as their role is not doing that it’s offering you an outlet and coping with their full back.

As Evatt keeps saying we ask centre halves to defend one on one and their lad just had the better of him. Could have changed to a back four to deal with it but I don’t think Iredale can do more than he did in the system we played. Both our wingbacks looked knackered by about the 65th minute and Bradley left a bigger hole behind but Jones was up to it.

[GhostoftheBok]

Your wing back should be playing almost on the front line. If it was their full back having a whale of a time I can accept it. But Johnston had a man to deal with and couldn’t. From minute one all the way through. You can’t double up a wing back as their role is not doing that it’s offering you an outlet and coping with their full back.

As Evatt keeps saying we ask centre halves to defend one on one and their lad just had the better of him. Could have changed to a back four to deal with it but I don’t think Iredale can do more than he did in the system we played. Both our wingbacks looked knackered by about the 65th minute and Bradley left a bigger hole behind but Jones was up to it.

I don't agree with your tactical assessment and discussing it further won't help on that score.

The issue wasn't tactical, it was just Iredale not being where he was meant to be at key points. It was his job, the other players had a go at him for it more than once.

[LeverEnd]

What I will say is I took my little lad with me today and he had an absolute blast. Loved every second of the game and described us as being "majestic." Bought himself a new shirt with his birthday money and had his first proper "fall in love with the game" match day.

He's been to games before, but I think this was that match that he'll remember when he's older - like most of us have from when we first started going.

Great to hear stuff like this. There is always one game that sticks. I have bits of memories of being on the old man's shoulders at the back of the paddock but my first proper game memory was Kevin Keegan and Newcastle arriving in August 1982. Sat with my grandma in the Manchester Rd stand, aged 7.
Long may his love affair continue. A promotion season will help!

[BWFC_Insane]

Just seen our fist goal and yeah…how did they miss the handball from Bradley? Nice to get one going our way though.

[Bruce Rioja]

feck off Johnston, clear it you fecking idiot.

I assumed Johnston would take the blame for their goal and so it seems. Sure, he should've done better, but watch their goal from the moment their lad wins the header in the middle of the park and then keep your eye on the lad who scored it (no 21, I think).
Not only do we not pick him up, we don't even see him. He makes the most untroubled run you'll see all season towards and into our box, even points to where he wants it playing to, and steps onto the pass to finish whilst completely unhindered.
That's our defence at it's absolute worst, and to make Johnston the scapegoat is both misguided and unfair.

[BWFC_Insane]

feck off Johnston, clear it you fecking idiot.

I assumed Johnston would take the blame for their goal and so it seems. Sure, he should've done better, but watch their goal from the moment their lad wins the header in the middle of the park and then keep your eye on the lad who scored it (no 21, I think).
Not only do we not pick him up, we don't even see him. He makes the most untroubled run you'll see all season towards and into our box, even points to where he wants it playing to, and steps onto the pass to finish whilst completely unhindered.
That's our defence at it's absolute worst, and to make Johnston the scapegoat is both misguided and unfair.

Not sure I follow this. Yes their 21 ghosted in a bit and Thomason left him but Johnston made a complete hash of it and just needed to clear it - I think that’s the bigger issue more than failing to track a run into the box.

[Bruce Rioja]

Ghosted in a bit? Watch it again. A complete failure between midfield and defence is of far greater concern to me than an individual mistake.

[BWFC_Insane]

Ghosted in a bit? Watch it again. A complete failure between midfield and defence is of far greater concern to me than an individual mistake.

I would say that might be the case if it wasn’t that we seem to concede most of our goals down to the very sort of individual mistake Johnston made.

When we have two deeper lying midfield players but not sitting ones as yesterday though I do always think we struggle more with that area than when MJ is just sitting on his own.

[Bruce Rioja]

Well we'll have to disagree. Their goal yesterday, for me, was down to a fundamental failure on our part to defend properly than an individual error. I also think their lad is due some credit for his tenacity

[truewhite15]

I think Trafford has to shoulder some blame as well. Committed the cardinal sin of partially coming for the loose ball then changing his mind, leaving an open goal. If he'd just stayed where he was...

[Worthy4England]

For me, having watched it a few times, their lad does pretty well to out muscle Johnston. You could call it a "mistake" or not winning your one on one's. From there, we're reacting, as players who might have been in a different place divert towards the ball.

What I would say, to Brucie's view, is that we've seen oppo players stood around where their scorer is on a few occasions this season, from corners and open play, seemingly untroubled by defenders (small d, so including whoever's back). Feels like something we need to look at.

[Worthy4England]

Also, if Mr Johnston needs a cheer up, he only has to go watch Plymouth's 3rd goal v Derby...

[TANGODANCER]

A point of note: Four of our next five games are aways, the toughest of which looks to be Portsmouth who haven't lost yet. Just keeping a weather eye open on the opposition.

[Worthy4England]

On the flip. Cheltenham haven't won at home in the league yet. MkD haven't had a great start...let's hope that continues!

[Bruce Rioja]

A point of note: Four of our next five games are aways, the toughest of which looks to be Portsmouth who haven't lost yet. Just keeping a weather eye open on the opposition.

Ignoring the Tranmere game, three of our next four are away.
I generally work on the rule of thumb that over the course of the piece, if you average three points at home and one away then you'll end up there or thereabouts.
As such, after losing to both Sheffield Wednesday at home and Plymouth Argyle away, I'd love it - love it if we can rustle up eight points from the available 12 to help us get back on track.

[Bruce Rioja]

Also, if Mr Johnston needs a cheer up, he only has to go watch Plymouth's 3rd goal v Derby...

Just seen it. Blimey. Now THAT'S a mistake

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'd love it - love it if we can rustle up eight points from the available 12 to help us get back on track.

Biggish ask.

Cheltenham have lost all three home games but only one by more than the odd goal - and that was 2-0 to joint table-toppers Pompey. McDons have only lost the one home league game - to Wednesday, on the second weekend when they were still reeling for summer sales, and then only 0-1 to a pengy. Pompey at home are W3 D1 L0, F9 A3.

I guess winning at Cheltenham and avoiding defeat at MK/Pompey would get us to 8pts if we win our home game - against Posh, who thankfully (for now) seem far more effective at home than away.

Given Evatt's aim to be sort-of-top-eight-or-ten in January, he might be content with fewer. I suspect the key is not to lose to promo rivals, which might let them get away. So don't lose to Pompey or Posh. MK Dons - it will be interesting to see how we play against them; I said they might struggle and so far they are, but it would be a big boost to win there as they were the only team IMO to take points off us in spring by playing good football, rather than us gifting them a brainfart/set-piece.

[Worthy4England]

If you can't target three points off the team in 21st with one win in 7, we should pack up. I'm ok with the adage "there's no easy games" etc. But if there are any aspirations you'd hope this one was in the mix as an away bonus.

I wouldn't think it criminal to get 6 from the next 12, and 8 might indeed be a push, but we can always talk down the possibility...