Tranmere (A) - Twisting my Mellon Man, Battle of Keith Hill survivors group

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

One other thing (sorry to spam). On development. Expectations can shift; in summer many of us would have thought that Thomason was a fourth-tier player at best, and some would have disputed that. But Tomo is young, and it would be rare for someone to suddenly explode in potential in their late 20s.

[jmjhb]

I note in his post match Evatt talked about the fact we didn’t play well but that the biggest problem was a lack of energy, fight and doing the dirty side of football in effect. Earning the right to play was the quote to the wider media.

More and more he’s moving away from the ‘we had 70% possession and if we do that we will win more often than not’ to the realistic pragmatic manager setting a team up to win games by winning the fight and then letting their quality shine through.

It’s good. You can see the growth. He’s basically transitioning to a possession based Sam Allardyce. Which is good.

Our equaliser was vintage Big Sam, hoof up to the big man and pick up the scraps

[TANGODANCER]

I'm never a negative supporter, but in truth, any one of us could have written the epilogue for this pre match. Full of standard cup match jargon: Should have, would have, might have etc, after picking a team that to have any hope of winning should have been the strongest we have. Very much a same-old, same old catalogue of errors from the boss down, of wearing false feathers and thinking we are unbeatable. We lost because, as too often in the past, we adopted a careless, lackadasical arrogance that we can't really back up. I groaned at penalties, almost a foregone conclusion.. And so it came to pass. Had Tranmere been a bit more accurate it sounds like it could have been all over at 3 or 4-0.

Ah well, one less to worry about. Onwards...

It's a group game, Tango. We've not been knocked out. Chances are, because we beat Crewe so handsomely despite making eight changed etc, we only need to draw against Leeds U21s – who last season conceded 4 to Tranmere and 5 to Salford - and we go through.

It'll be reet.

Hand up D.S.B. I had forgotten about the Group set up, mainly because I've been around a long time and seen so many Cup exits, but the fact remains, we lost the game, which in reality should never have got to the penalty stage. We were very late to the party which,had there been extra time format we probably would have won (there I go with a "would" have). I hear what Evatt says about the players, but he picks the team and the question's a simple one: Do we want to give it our strongest best shot, or not? I'd hate to think that was our best shot. A grandma on a Zimmer frame could have probably batted away at least one penalty shot with her hot water bottle .

Okay, we got a lifebelt, so on with it...

[BWFC_Insane]

I note in his post match Evatt talked about the fact we didn’t play well but that the biggest problem was a lack of energy, fight and doing the dirty side of football in effect. Earning the right to play was the quote to the wider media.

More and more he’s moving away from the ‘we had 70% possession and if we do that we will win more often than not’ to the realistic pragmatic manager setting a team up to win games by winning the fight and then letting their quality shine through.

It’s good. You can see the growth. He’s basically transitioning to a possession based Sam Allardyce. Which is good.

Our equaliser was vintage Big Sam, hoof up to the big man and pick up the scraps

Yeah. But it’s not about the style of play. My issue was never that. It was the ‘young manager, project, play the right way and hold the moral high ground, we had 70% possession so absolutely deserved to win the game and we won’t resort to what they did, recruiting only ball playing types, how we play is more important than the result’ that Evatt absolutely had going on initially and gradually has leached out of him.

He’s far more grounded and pragmatic now. Doesn’t mean he’s abandoned his own method for playing just that he has and is openly acknowledging that you have to do stuff on the pitch in order to play that way.

I guess it comes out in selection too. Two more scrapper like midfield players and the definitely less able but arguably more willing Kachunga up top. Iredale at LWB to an extent too feels quite un Evatt like if we look at past IE.

However you play it needs to get results and Evatt has modified how we play and how he responds to that in order to just be a bit more pragmatic.

I am guilty of forgetting how young he is in managerial terms. But whilst as will always happen we will question his individual decisions and sometimes they will prove wrong and sometimes we will be right. I have few complaints with what he’s done this season. Bringing Santos straight back was a mistake for me but we’ve got over that now and Evatt feels much steadier and less prone to losing it which in turn makes me feel that we can survive blips in form better.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Hand up D.S.B. I had forgotten about the Group set up, mainly because I've been around a long time and seen so many Cup exits, but the fact remains, we lost the game, which in reality should never have got to the penalty stage. We were very late to the party which,had there been extra time format we probably would have won (there I go with a "would" have). I hear what Evatt says about the players, but he picks the team and the question's a simple one: Do we want to give it our strongest best shot, or not? I'd hate to think that was our best shot. A grandma on a Zimmer frame could have probably batted away at least one penalty shot with her hot water bottle .

Okay, we got a lifebelt, so on with it...

Thought so. No problem, happy to be the bearer of relieving news.

In hindsight Evatt misjudged this selection but he put out some good players who let him down. Junior bench aside, this was not a team of also-rans. They should have done better – something which falls on them and the coaches.

But it’s not about the style of play. My issue was never that. It was the ‘young manager, project, play the right way and hold the moral high ground, we had 70% possession so absolutely deserved to win the game and we won’t resort to what they did, recruiting only ball playing types, how we play is more important than the result’ that Evatt absolutely had going on initially and gradually has leached out of him.

He’s far more grounded and pragmatic now. Doesn’t mean he’s abandoned his own method for playing just that he has and is openly acknowledging that you have to do stuff on the pitch in order to play that way.

I guess it comes out in selection too. Two more scrapper like midfield players and the definitely less able but arguably more willing Kachunga up top. Iredale at LWB to an extent too feels quite un Evatt like if we look at past IE.

However you play it needs to get results and Evatt has modified how we play and how he responds to that in order to just be a bit more pragmatic.

I am guilty of forgetting how young he is in managerial terms. But whilst as will always happen we will question his individual decisions and sometimes they will prove wrong and sometimes we will be right. I have few complaints with what he’s done this season. Bringing Santos straight back was a mistake for me but we’ve got over that now and Evatt feels much steadier and less prone to losing it which in turn makes me feel that we can survive blips in form better.

Yep, agreed to most of that and good to hear. What I would say is that he's played all sorts at wingback out of necessity – Brockbank and Jones out of position at LWB, Greenidge out of position on the pitch as well as more forward-thinking players like Izzy and Sads. I guess you could take that two ways: either he's open-minded about who can play that position, or he's close-minded enough to hammer square pegs into round holes... but as you say, he's becoming less dogmatic in general, and that's good for everyone including him.

[Frank Drebin]

More and more he’s moving away from the ‘we had 70% possession and if we do that we will win more often than not’ to the realistic pragmatic manager setting a team up to win games by winning the fight and then letting their quality shine through.

Spot on. I also like it that he’s not averse to going long when it’s needed and he’s learnt to stop saying things like, I think we’re the best team in the league.

[Worthy4England]

I was OK with Evatt's post match. Fairly sure I heard him say that there had been some hard words at half time, which it was pretty evident were needed. Whilst teams need a style, the quick front to back & score should never be discounted, even if it's not a "preference"

Slightly more concerning was the queue of people knocking at Evatts door for playing time. By and large, I don't think they made too big a case.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Slightly more concerning was the queue of people knocking at Evatts door for playing time. By and large, I don't think they made too big a case.

We don't know there was a queue. He's said he rather they complained to him than whined at colleagues, but I don't recall him mentioning many complaining at all.

What's worrying is that on the pitch, nobody really demanded further minutes, except maybe Izzy and Carty.

[Worthy4England]

Slightly more concerning was the queue of people knocking at Evatts door for playing time. By and large, I don't think they made too big a case.

We don't know there was a queue. He's said he rather they complained to him than whined at colleagues, but I don't recall him mentioning many complaining at all.

What's worrying is that on the pitch, nobody really demanded further minutes, except maybe Izzy and Carty.

I wasn't trying to convey a situation of disharmony and complaining. I'd be very surprised from some of the people who played last night who've been out of the team recently, if they didn't think they should be in the first XI (which we apparently don't have) and metaphorically knocking on the Manager's door.

Just to even it out, I didn't see anyone "demanding minutes" last night.

[officer_dibble]

Who were the biggest disappointments? Morley, Dapo, Sadlier (albeit he did score).

[Worthy4England]

Who were the biggest disappointments? Morley, Dapo, Sadlier (albeit he did score).

Tricky - because it depends on what your expectations were - and they were all disappointing in the first 45. Dixon was obvs up there. Johnston didn't play great, Sheehan looked lost. Beck looked like an U18 who couldn't kick straight - who've I missed? Toal - ok but you probably wouldn't put him in front of Santos. John (I'll give a little leeway as he was on the right), but didn't look "at it" as has been the case a couple of times this season. Dad Bod didn't do anything outstanding. Aimson, looked hurried in possession, but reasonably solid in defence...

Izzy and Carty added some impetus, so should be happy with their subs appearances...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Who were the biggest disappointments? Morley, Dapo, Sadlier (albeit he did score).

Morley, for someone who started the season so well.
Sadlier I genuinely forgot was playing in the first half.
Dapo, to me, wasn’t that far below his usual. He will always look slightly uninterested and a lot of what he tries doesn’t come off.
Dixon not so much disappointing as disheartening.
Sheehan not imposing himself on a fourth-tier team.
Toal and to some extent Beck because of the excitement of possibility.
Johnston way below the standard he’s set.

[BWFC_Insane]

The problem with Morley and it’s always been a problem is off the ball he doesn’t do enough. It’s fixable but it concerns me that he’s been here a while now and I’m convinced it’s something Evatt and the coaches are on him about but I’ve not seen too much progress.

Sheehan for me got a bit better second half but my concern is where to play him. I don’t think he’s a number ten in that if we need a new one beyond Lee or Dempsey it had to be Sadlier for me purely for the goal threat. Doesn’t play well but scores goals nobody else in the squad would. And we have in Lee and Dempsey the hard running rather number tens. So can’t see Sheehan getting in there.

As a number 8 or 6 then….and I just don’t see it given the fact this is a physically demanding league and we are just now seeing what a midfield really needs to be to succeed and I cannot see him matching GT and MJ for that side of the game.

Dapo I’m not overly concerned by other than his form hasn’t been great for a while. Need to get the best out of him not least because he’s our most sellable (and arguably not irreplaceable if we did sell him) asset.

John for me hasn’t been right for a long time. And nobody can convince me there isn’t something deeper going on there. Be it personal or with the club I don’t know. But he has all the hallmarks of a player wanting away and has for a while if we are honest.

Toal it’s early days and you can see his attributes. He needs to learn the system and get used to defending with space behind him something he clearly isn’t used to.

I’m moderately concerned that Dad Bod like the rest of our strikers is struggling to regain the form he has towards the end of last season. Baka, JDB, Charles and Dapo all have started looking bang out of sorts. JDB has had injuries so gets a small pass. But it is a little worry. And Carty might have pressed his case for a place on the bench.

Beck looked way off and again slightly worrying as we need him fit to help out on the left.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The problem with Morley and it’s always been a problem is off the ball he doesn’t do enough. It’s fixable but it concerns me that he’s been here a while now and I’m convinced it’s something Evatt and the coaches are on him about but I’ve not seen too much progress.

I won't argue against that. But what worried me more was that he didn't demand the ball last night. Against Tranmere, he should be howling for the ball, looking up for long passes but also being prepared to lay off short and move again for a better angle; linking play, running round and generally being The Main Man.

I know our patterns of play are often GK -> CB -> LCB -bigswitch> RWB or the other way (GK -> CB -> RCB -bigswitch> LWB). But the central midfielders should want the ball - Tomo certainly does, MJ is happy to pop it around, Lee is the calmest Wanderer in possession I've ever seen. Even if they are not going to play the killer pass, their involvement should drag opponents toward them and create the space to work the pattern. When they just stand there, passengers, the oppo can press us and our job gets much harder.

In short: If he wants to be in a promo-chasing third-tier team, he should be absolutely bossing it against mid-table fourth-tierers. He really didn't, and that's why he disappointed me most. That's your chance, son: grab it.

[BWFC_Insane]

That’s part of it though. Off the ball Lee and Thomason are constantly moving trying to find space offering options for the pass. Morley is too static. Off the ball isn’t just when the opposition have it for me it’s about their movement and general work. Morley doesn’t demand the ball because he’s often too static and I’ve noticed this in the league games too.

[TANGODANCER]

Tranmere's second goal. Going purely off highlights (a dozen viewings) they did everything right and us everything wrong. Evatt's "wolf pack" attacking of the ball disappeared in favour of the pre-style "shadow" defending. Scoring should neve be that simple, because, credit to them, that's how they made it look. others will look and follow unless we defend with more tooth and claw. All else will soon be forgiven and forgotten if we get the win and points at the end of he game.

[Bruce Rioja]

Dixon's 29 soon and this is almost certainly going to be the best level he plays at - he didn't play above non-league until he was 26.

I honestly had absolutely no idea that he's that old. To now I've always assumed that he's a nervous 20-year-old in need of a decent trainer and a big shot of confidence.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Dixon's 29 soon and this is almost certainly going to be the best level he plays at - he didn't play above non-league until he was 26.

I honestly had absolutely no idea that he's that old. To now I've always assumed that he's a nervous 20-year-old in need of a decent trainer and a big shot of confidence.

Boro-born but went through Sunderland academy. Loaned to various north-country non-leaguers but the Mackems let him go at 21; thence to Barrow and then here.

Hartlepool - who loaned him once but didn’t use him, and who were the beneficiaries of his bungling largesse to knock us out of last season’s Pizza Cup - strike me as about his level. I wish him well but I want him improved upon.

[Bruce Rioja]

I wish him well but I want him improved upon.

Yes, that, 100%

[Prufrock]

I'm not a fan of armchair psychology but it *cannot* be good for him either at this point.