No Pancakes please on Tuesday. Home v Accrington Tues, 25th Apr. 7.45.

[BWFC_Insane]

I’m not really bothered about the style but the football we play is the worst I’ve ever watched at Bolton in terms of entertainment. Especially home games. It’s like watching paint dry it’s that dull.

Do you genuinely believe that Evattball is worse than the abjectly ambitionless Parky tactics of his second and third season? Shipping 3 or more at home to Leeds, Boro, Brentford, Preston, Wolves, Sheffield United, Forest, Norwich – well I suppose at least there were goals for entertainment...

What got me more than the losses was the lack of ambition, though. Going to Burton for a crucial six-pointer and playing so defensively that he was forced to make a double change at half-time (2-0 down, made cock-all difference, didn't manage a shot on target all game). I mean, it's your right to believe what you like and indeed to like what you believe, and I'll defend your right to it, but that was honest-to-goodness as close as I've come in nearly 40 years to not wanting to watch my team.

Yeah honestly. The atmosphere round the club is great following our rescue and everyone is positive generally. The results are pretty good and it’s not like we are hopelessly unorganised or a mess. So let’s not confuse style with a lot of other stuff.

And when we are more transitional and whatever….Peterborough away, Wembley , even Burton away recently it’s a pleasure a genuine pleasure to watch it.

But MOST home games if I’m honest bore me to absolute tears. I’m not alone either. Lots of people sit there and say it. It’s not even a complaint as I think most are happy if we win and just happy we have a club to watch and that the town and team have connected again. It’s a good time. Generally.

But if we are talking purely ‘style’ of football I hate it. Sideways, sideways, backwards, sideways and then we try and play through the middle lose it and start again. Most games at least. We don’t create that much goalmouth action and I’m rarely off my seat watching it. Doesn’t help we miss a lot of chances too.

Was watching Sheffield United tonight and they play similarly but they also commit men into the box in numbers and put the ball in there often enough. So they do create that goalmouth action. There is also nobody in the team who you give the ball to and you expect something exciting. It’s all quite monotone. Dapo on form did add a bit of that…get people off their seat expecting something. Now for me though we lack that.

Genuinely I don’t really mind what we do. Win the games, I’m not ignorant. Many people hated football under some previous managers and let’s face it Parky wasn’t building inspirational teams - I didn’t mind it that much but I think it was easier to accept as we genuinely weren’t financially competitive at all in those championship seasons. But for me the best football we’ve played that I enjoyed watching most was under Bruce. Take the quality of players out of it and that was great. Played football. But also created so much. Maybe it’s rose tinted glasses but my memory of then is about dynamic wide players crossing for mobile strikers. Whereas now it’s a centre half striding out with 10 players in front of him a team camped in and the ball going one side then another, then back…

[Worthy4England]

Yes to a lot of that. There was a "game" v Accy. But if I go back one to Shrewsbury, it was godawful unless your thing is counting passes or possession. It felt like watching a defence v attack training session, where the instruction was not to shoot. We can't control how the oppo sets up, but it was not a great watch.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Oh to be sure, when we have a lot of the ball without creating chances it's frustrating. It's like the foreplay of possession without the penetration of, well, penetration. I can see why that's frustrating.

But I just can't agree with the assertion, which to me sounds a tad hyperbolic, that it's "the worst I’ve ever watched at Bolton in terms of entertainment", especially in direct comparison to those two horrendous Parky seasons – which were often equally shot-shy while habitually surrendering all possession too. If Evattball can sometimes be tease without fulfillment, then Parkyball was like wincing while waiting to be buggered.

[BWFC_Insane]

Oh to be sure, when we have a lot of the ball without creating chances it's frustrating. It's like the foreplay of possession without the penetration of, well, penetration. I can see why that's frustrating.

But I just can't agree with the assertion, which to me sounds a tad hyperbolic, that it's "the worst I’ve ever watched at Bolton in terms of entertainment", especially in direct comparison to those two horrendous Parky seasons – which were often equally shot-shy while habitually surrendering all possession too. If Evattball can sometimes be tease without fulfillment, then Parkyball was like wincing while waiting to be buggered.

But the situations were different. The main problem in the championship seasons was the players we had were ineadquate so we were always having to find ways to grind out a result. I found more enjoyment in that than watching a lot of our home games this season.

You can disagree sure but that’s how I feel.

But I mean we are confusing style with ability and and results too. I’d vastly prefer the results this season than scraping championship survival. And I guess my annoyance is we are one of the better sides in this division yet personally I don’t massively enjoy watching it.

I think what makes it worse is we get the odd glimpse of what is a really exciting and dynamic brand of football yet the same players then give us game after game of the turgid and dull stuff.

When we are winning it doesn’t matter. As MJ said - there have been grumbles about how we’ve played and even he said it’s understandable. It’s not a good watch. But if we win Saturday I don’t care.

[LeverEnd]

Oh to be sure, when we have a lot of the ball without creating chances it's frustrating. It's like the foreplay of possession without the penetration of, well, penetration. I can see why that's frustrating.

But I just can't agree with the assertion, which to me sounds a tad hyperbolic, that it's "the worst I’ve ever watched at Bolton in terms of entertainment", especially in direct comparison to those two horrendous Parky seasons – which were often equally shot-shy while habitually surrendering all possession too. If Evattball can sometimes be tease without fulfillment, then Parkyball was like wincing while waiting to be buggered.

I like to think my foreplay much more exciting than the first half Vs Shrewsbury, even I don't manage the equivalent of a top corner screamer later on, I'll have you know. (47 now, not a machine etc...)

[LeverEnd]

Re the style of play, I find possession football boring. I like chances and attacking intent. I don't mind if it's direct.
The whole Evattball thing is largely a myth. Yes we can look dynamic against poor sides but most of the time it lacks intensity and bores me. There's also an irritating pretentiousness to it.
I can't agree that I'd prefer parky football though. It was mainly miserable an unnecessarily so. Plus he had better players than we have right now.
What concerns me now is that we look weaker than at this point last year, are playing worse football and have recruited badly over 2 windows, the notable exceptions being loans that we can't keep.
Hope we have a few good ones lined up for the summer.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The main problem in the championship seasons was the players we had were ineadquate so we were always having to find ways to grind out a result. I found more enjoyment in that than watching a lot of our home games this season.

I turn again to that Burton game. One we needed to win. And after we'd come from behind in a similarly key game at Barnsley, by making attacking substitutions after signally failing to keep a clean sheet, Parky chose just about the most defensive team possible. At Burton.

Iles called it a team to "divide opinion"... "I am not sure people will like it". The reaction on here bore him out. Athertonian called it "Parky Bingo." DJBlu agreed: "Such a shite selection... Gonna be a long afternoon." Lost Leopard Spot decided "The man's an idiot." Prufrock simply said "Gulp." Peter Thompson said "Such a negative, defensive line up....Parkinson trying to nick a 0-0 like he does in 'every' game, it just invites pressure. If we lose this game Parkinson will deserve all of the stick he'll get from the fans for that ultra defensive starting line up - let's hope somehow they can nick a point." Jim McDonuts wondered if it was "Parky's suicide note," saying "Burton'll be delighted with that line up. Know I'm not. They're good coming fwd and shaky at the back, so the seeming plan is to just let them attack us for 90m and hope for a point. Fairly sure previously this hasn't worked out well for us. Merde, feel sick already."

And lo, 2-0 down before half-time. DJBlu: "PP you get everything you deserve you sorry excuse of a manager. That team selection is abysmal and defeatist." Leopard: "Everybody on the planet but Parkinson could foresee this score." Peter T: "what did everyone expect with that line up, like I said it just invites pressure and we don't give the opposition anything to thing about - with such a boring, negative, clueless manager its no surprise that we have a boring, negative, clueless team." Me: "I'm not so much angry as numb with the idiocy of it. Not only is it very high-risk, it reeks of defeatism."

Doesn't sound like enjoyment, entertainment or getting results. Reports from the ground of fans fighting on the terraces and trying to get at Parky in the dugouts.

I liked Parky as a fella, I just found his football frequently too reactive to enjoy. And once more, I completely understand why folk find Evattball frutsrating. But to me it's night and day from those times – let alone the ones that followed as we freefell toward oblivion.

[BWFC_Insane]

The main problem in the championship seasons was the players we had were ineadquate so we were always having to find ways to grind out a result. I found more enjoyment in that than watching a lot of our home games this season.

I turn again to that Burton game. One we needed to win. And after we'd come from behind in a similarly key game at Barnsley, by making attacking substitutions after signally failing to keep a clean sheet, Parky chose just about the most defensive team possible. At Burton.

Iles called it a team to "divide opinion"... "I am not sure people will like it". The reaction on here bore him out. Athertonian called it "Parky Bingo." DJBlu agreed: "Such a shite selection... Gonna be a long afternoon." Lost Leopard Spot decided "The man's an idiot." Prufrock simply said "Gulp." Peter Thompson said "Such a negative, defensive line up....Parkinson trying to nick a 0-0 like he does in 'every' game, it just invites pressure. If we lose this game Parkinson will deserve all of the stick he'll get from the fans for that ultra defensive starting line up - let's hope somehow they can nick a point." Jim McDonuts wondered if it was "Parky's suicide note," saying "Burton'll be delighted with that line up. Know I'm not. They're good coming fwd and shaky at the back, so the seeming plan is to just let them attack us for 90m and hope for a point. Fairly sure previously this hasn't worked out well for us. Merde, feel sick already."

And lo, 2-0 down before half-time. DJBlu: "PP you get everything you deserve you sorry excuse of a manager. That team selection is abysmal and defeatist." Leopard: "Everybody on the planet but Parkinson could foresee this score." Peter T: "what did everyone expect with that line up, like I said it just invites pressure and we don't give the opposition anything to thing about - with such a boring, negative, clueless manager its no surprise that we have a boring, negative, clueless team." Me: "I'm not so much angry as numb with the idiocy of it. Not only is it very high-risk, it reeks of defeatism."

Doesn't sound like enjoyment, entertainment or getting results. Reports from the ground of fans fighting on the terraces and trying to get at Parky in the dugouts.

I liked Parky as a fella, I just found his football frequently too reactive to enjoy. And once more, I completely understand why folk find Evattball frutsrating. But to me it's night and day from those times – let alone the ones that followed as we freefell toward oblivion.

You are conflating many things and comparing a whole host of factors against each other. And also I'm not sure of the value of selectively picking out one game.

It is night and day because a) we've got great owners b) we've been at the bottom and are climbing out c) we are generally getting decent results d) matchday experiences have been improved and e) the town is behind the club.

Its a much better overall thing. I and quite a few others find our football boring. I think that's perfectly reasonable position to be in. Maybe - the view of how entertaining it is depends on the lens you look through. Maybe if I felt we were scrapping against the odds I'd be more tolerant of 67% possession and one meaningful effort on target against minnows Accrington. Maybe the thrill of holding big spending Derby to a goalless draw would be duller if I was thinking we should be competing against those sides equally.

But would I swap now for then? No.

We are where we are. It doesn't mean that sideways passing is a good watch. To me its not. And I would prefer us to be playing in a different way for my own personal enjoyment. But that's just me.

[Worthy4England]

I think in all seasons, there's a mix of all of the above, whatever style you're playing. Some of the comparisons I drew to Brucie's 1995 season, show that. It wasn't all strawberry's and blow-jobs, whether or not people have a "preference" for those halcyon days and remember them fondly. Certainly not all matches in that season "stand out" in my mind. I'd be hard pressed to tell you how good we were in the 2-0 home defeat to Brizzle City, second game of the season. But with the passage of 28 years, overall, there's happy memories so the poor games we played that season will be overwritten by the overall success the season turned out to be...

With that said, it's different comparing a season where we were always likely to struggle nearer the foot of the division, with a season where we're pressing for promotion. Until we see Evatt in that position, it's difficult to know how he'll address it. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some comments in a very similar vein to those above relating to Parky and Burton.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think in all seasons, there's a mix of all of the above, whatever style you're playing. Some of the comparisons I drew to Brucie's 1995 season, show that. It wasn't all strawberry's and blow-jobs, whether or not people have a "preference" for those halcyon days and remember them fondly. Certainly not all matches in that season "stand out" in my mind. I'd be hard pressed to tell you how good we were in the 2-0 home defeat to Brizzle City, second game of the season. But with the passage of 28 years, overall, there's happy memories so the poor games we played that season will be overwritten by the overall success the season turned out to be...

With that said, it's different comparing a season where we were always likely to struggle nearer the foot of the division, with a season where we're pressing for promotion. Until we see Evatt in that position, it's difficult to know how he'll address it. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some comments in a very similar vein to those above relating to Parky and Burton.

Agree with the rose tinted glasses passing of time thing. We all remember the highlights. The Liverpool aways, Swindons, Wolves, Reading....I remember that Bristol City game we were awful. Lots of new players and we hadn't gelled yet! IIRC we started poorly and Bruce even experimented with a 3 at the back for a couple of games.

And yes that's the thing. Go up and it will be a scrap and we won't be enjoying 67% possession. We'll need to find another way. In some ways I think I'd enjoy that more than the feeling that we really should beat an absolutely woeful Accrington yet basically create the sum total of nowt even with 99 strikers on the pitch (none of them are any good though!).

[Prufrock]

I think the Parky L1 season is a fairer comparison. I have a lot of time for Parky, and a lot of time for that team. He had better resources (i.e. players) across the season, but he also had to essentially build three teams.

I'd rather have that team now, because it was sufficiently more successful (and we all know how the flow chart goes), but even then when e were winning it was comfortably less pleasing in the eye to me. You got the thrill of wins and success which is big, but this discussion is trying to isolate the "quality" of the football to watch, and this time is far better for me. We had a few months of Sammi Ameobi OBE and Clough with individual quality, but there was a of wang it in the box and play of scraps.

This team often bores, but when it's good it's up there with the best football I've seen a Bolton team play (all things being relative). We were electric at Wembley, and there have been games like that Cambridge game in L2 where we were an absolute pleasure to watch.

It's also hugely subjective. Insane has said he'd much rather watch Liverpool then City. Leaving aside distaste for our Scouse cousins, not for me Jeff. City last night were as good as gets for me. Just out of this world talent and execution at pace. But they do have boring games because to be exciting that kind of football requires the other team to come out. If they don't it becomes much more methodical to be successful, whereas even when teams sit in against Liverpool their way to beat that is still high octane. (I think the underrated aerial ability of Mane and Firmino (Salah too but he's still there) is an undervalued reason why they've dropped off so much. They have fewer answers when teams sit in.

[Prufrock]

I think in all seasons, there's a mix of all of the above, whatever style you're playing. Some of the comparisons I drew to Brucie's 1995 season, show that. It wasn't all strawberry's and blow-jobs, whether or not people have a "preference" for those halcyon days and remember them fondly. Certainly not all matches in that season "stand out" in my mind. I'd be hard pressed to tell you how good we were in the 2-0 home defeat to Brizzle City, second game of the season. But with the passage of 28 years, overall, there's happy memories so the poor games we played that season will be overwritten by the overall success the season turned out to be...

With that said, it's different comparing a season where we were always likely to struggle nearer the foot of the division, with a season where we're pressing for promotion. Until we see Evatt in that position, it's difficult to know how he'll address it. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some comments in a very similar vein to those above relating to Parky and Burton.

Agree with the rose tinted glasses passing of time thing. We all remember the highlights. The Liverpool aways, Swindons, Wolves, Reading....I remember that Bristol City game we were awful. Lots of new players and we hadn't gelled yet! IIRC we started poorly and Bruce even experimented with a 3 at the back for a couple of games.

And yes that's the thing. Go up and it will be a scrap and we won't be enjoying 67% possession. We'll need to find another way. In some ways I think I'd enjoy that more than the feeling that we really should beat an absolutely woeful Accrington yet basically create the sum total of nowt even with 99 strikers on the pitch (none of them are any good though!).

I can see that. Partly because other teams would "expect" points out if games against us and not sit in. We'd lose more as plenty would have the quality to do it, but you'd see the more exciting side of this type of football.

[Worthy4England]

I think in all seasons, there's a mix of all of the above, whatever style you're playing. Some of the comparisons I drew to Brucie's 1995 season, show that. It wasn't all strawberry's and blow-jobs, whether or not people have a "preference" for those halcyon days and remember them fondly. Certainly not all matches in that season "stand out" in my mind. I'd be hard pressed to tell you how good we were in the 2-0 home defeat to Brizzle City, second game of the season. But with the passage of 28 years, overall, there's happy memories so the poor games we played that season will be overwritten by the overall success the season turned out to be...

With that said, it's different comparing a season where we were always likely to struggle nearer the foot of the division, with a season where we're pressing for promotion. Until we see Evatt in that position, it's difficult to know how he'll address it. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some comments in a very similar vein to those above relating to Parky and Burton.

Agree with the rose tinted glasses passing of time thing. We all remember the highlights. The Liverpool aways, Swindons, Wolves, Reading....I remember that Bristol City game we were awful. Lots of new players and we hadn't gelled yet! IIRC we started poorly and Bruce even experimented with a 3 at the back for a couple of games.

And yes that's the thing. Go up and it will be a scrap and we won't be enjoying 67% possession. We'll need to find another way. In some ways I think I'd enjoy that more than the feeling that we really should beat an absolutely woeful Accrington yet basically create the sum total of nowt even with 99 strikers on the pitch (none of them are any good though!).

And therein lies parts of the problem. The "Liverpool Aways" - I'm guessing you're only looking at the FA cup ones? were a couple of years prior to 1994/5, Wolves, we won 2 lost 2 (albeit won the important one), Swindon we lost away, won at home, Reading we weren't very good against for most of the match, although the result glosses over this.

When you're progressing - and we currently are (Sorry to LE, not sure we've gone "backwards" by any objective measure), Manager is going to get a little more slack. I generally put result over how it happened, so broadly happy, but there's been some right boring going nowhere football on the back of it.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think in all seasons, there's a mix of all of the above, whatever style you're playing. Some of the comparisons I drew to Brucie's 1995 season, show that. It wasn't all strawberry's and blow-jobs, whether or not people have a "preference" for those halcyon days and remember them fondly. Certainly not all matches in that season "stand out" in my mind. I'd be hard pressed to tell you how good we were in the 2-0 home defeat to Brizzle City, second game of the season. But with the passage of 28 years, overall, there's happy memories so the poor games we played that season will be overwritten by the overall success the season turned out to be...

With that said, it's different comparing a season where we were always likely to struggle nearer the foot of the division, with a season where we're pressing for promotion. Until we see Evatt in that position, it's difficult to know how he'll address it. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some comments in a very similar vein to those above relating to Parky and Burton.

Agree with the rose tinted glasses passing of time thing. We all remember the highlights. The Liverpool aways, Swindons, Wolves, Reading....I remember that Bristol City game we were awful. Lots of new players and we hadn't gelled yet! IIRC we started poorly and Bruce even experimented with a 3 at the back for a couple of games.

And yes that's the thing. Go up and it will be a scrap and we won't be enjoying 67% possession. We'll need to find another way. In some ways I think I'd enjoy that more than the feeling that we really should beat an absolutely woeful Accrington yet basically create the sum total of nowt even with 99 strikers on the pitch (none of them are any good though!).

And therein lies parts of the problem. The "Liverpool Aways" - I'm guessing you're only looking at the FA cup ones? were a couple of years prior to 1994/5, Wolves, we won 2 lost 2 (albeit won the important one), Swindon we lost away, won at home, Reading we weren't very good against for most of the match, although the result glosses over this.

When you're progressing - and we currently are (Sorry to LE, not sure we've gone "backwards" by any objective measure), Manager is going to get a little more slack. I generally put result over how it happened, so broadly happy, but there's been some right boring going nowhere football on the back of it.

Oh indeed I agree.

I find some of the nonsense that comes with it a bit annoying. The whole we are pure and protectors of football is nonsense. And then talking about tiring teams out is also pretty ridiculous. Against Accrington he puts all our big strikers on then says we can’t throw the ball into the box yet none of those lads can play any football…it all feels a bit post rationalised.

But managers do that.

I don’t think how we play appeals to me. But i generally put that aside for other things like results and the club going in the right direction.

Which it is.

[Prufrock]

Are there's definitely an element of "brand management" too. You want to get picked as the new Potter (well, maybe less so now) or Howe, not a new Pulis or Warnock.

The key thing for me is, ignoring the words, do they "get it" with their prioritisations etc and I think he does. We've done amazing work with the defence tbf, we're nowhere near Owen Coyle we play nice football but are hopeless at the back.